8 year old boy murdered because his mom thought he was gay

[USS Monitor]

Will killing them bring the kid back? No. Is it going to be more effective than prison to protect other children? No.

But having it on the books does open the door for other people -- people who are not the same level of scummy, people against whom the evidence is not as clear-cut -- to get executed.

Hence why all crimes have the death penalty say "up to" instead of "only" before the words "the death penalty". Basically it's possible that a person who commits murder might not get the death penalty. It all depends on the circumstances.

And yet there is still an ongoing problem with states that have the death penalty using it irresponsibly.

[Telconi]

I'm iffy about the death penalty but a part of me feels like people who torture and murder children (especially their own) are incapable of being reformed.

Whether these specific people are capable of being reformed is beside the point. They probably aren't, but they can get life without parole if that's the issue. The problem with the death penalty is that if it's on the table for this case, it will also be legal to apply to other cases, and we haven't figured out a reliable way to prevent it from being misused in states where it is on the books.

But that's an issue of abuse not an issue of the death penalty's existence.

But shouldn't. Alas, an issue for another thread perhaps.

It should, since a lot of the cost of D involves legal processes aimed at minimizing the false positive rate, given the nature of the consequences.

I would hope so anyway.

Yes, but those costs are a FAR more complex issue than just "appeals cost money". If you'd like we could start a thread, or feel free to TG me.

[USS Monitor]

Is it going to be more effective than prison to protect other children?

Well ... yes ...

How?

Are they going to be raising children while they're in prison if we don't execute them? Do you have statistical evidence showing that the death penalty is an effective deterrent?

[Dooom35796821595]

Hence why all crimes have the death penalty say "up to" instead of "only" before the words "the death penalty". Basically it's possible that a person who commits murder might not get the death penalty. It all depends on the circumstances.

And yet there is still an ongoing problem with states that have the death penalty using it irresponsibly.

What do you expect is a system that elects judges police officials and DAs? Abuse of the system to sway the public, and appear tough on crime.

[Telconi]

Well ... yes ...

How?

Are they going to be raising children while they're in prison if we don't execute them? Do you have statistical evidence showing that the death penalty is an effective deterrent?

Nobody has ever broken out of a grave and re-commited...

[Vallermoore]

Exécuté thé perp.

[Thermodolia]

Hence why all crimes have the death penalty say "up to" instead of "only" before the words "the death penalty". Basically it's possible that a person who commits murder might not get the death penalty. It all depends on the circumstances.

And yet there is still an ongoing problem with states that have the death penalty using it irresponsibly.

In what way?

[Destructive Government Economic System]

Seriously?

The mother and boyfriend thought that the son was gay, which makes their reasons for outright murdering him completely void (and murder was never forgivable to begin with, obviously). Why in the world did they have the sudden urge to murder her son after only suspecting him of being gay? And why in the world did they not even attempt to help him through civil matters? It appears that they simply got on to the abuse without, firstly, discussing their concerns with the son. It is even proven further that those people were outright sadists due to them genuinely laughing during their abusive sessions.

This is coming from me, a Christian, and despite me not agreeing with homosexuality in general, this was just completely unnecessary violence to a child. Only cowardly individuals would attempt to abuse those who are physically (and mentally) weaker than them. As others have said before, these types of people really do deserve the death penalty. While lifelong sentence in prison sounds like a fitting punishment for child abusers/murderers, I personally believe that these inhumane beings should just be cleaned. There is no need to put up with their swine any longer, so it is always best to simply take out the trash.

Thanks, OP, for the read. Unfortunately, this crap likely occurs in other parts of the world... daily.

[Blasted Craigs]

The independent

ABC7

Gabriel Fernandez: Mother's boyfriend beat eight-year-old to death because he thought he was gay, court told
'My mom and her boyfriend made Gabriel eat spoiled stuff or expired stuff. One thing I remember is expired spinach. He threw it up, and they made him eat it off the table'

An eight-year-old boy endured unimaginable abuse before his death including being forced to eat cat litter and being bound and gagged, a court heard.

Gabriel Fernandez's mother Pearl and her boyfriend Isauro Aguirre allegedly tortured the child in the months leading up to his death in 2013.

Gabriel was sprayed with pepper spray, forced to eat cat faeces and regularly gagged, bound and beaten, according to testimony from Gabriel's older brother Ezequiel, who was 12 when his brother was killed.

"My mom and her boyfriend made Gabriel eat spoiled stuff or expired stuff. One thing I remember is expired spinach. He threw it up, and they made him eat it off the table," Ezequiel told the court, according to ABC7.

He was also burned with cigarettes, whipped with a metal hanger and shot with a BB gun, the jury was told.

Prosecutor Jon Hatami said Aguirre forced Gabriel to go to school in pink clothes and was motivated to kill him because he thought he was gay. "It was just unbelievable amount of trauma on his body," Los Angeles County Fire Department paramedic James Cermak, who responded to the 911 call on the day of his death, told the court.

Gabriel's 14-year-old sister Virginia, who was 11 at the time of the abuse, also described what happened on the day he died.

"He knocked the air out of him, and he fell over, and he didn't get back up," she told the court. "So they picked him up. They threw him in the shower. And they kept yelling at him to wake up. And when he didn't wake up, my mother decided to call the police. And she told me to grab a rag and we cleaned most of the blood that was on the floor."

The judge reportedly called a recess during the testimony because so many in the room were crying.

The disturbing details came to light during the trial of Aguirre. The boy's mother Fernandez will be tried separately. Both are accused of torture and murder.

This just disgusts me. Child abusers are scum. To do it beacuse you think he might be gay is another layer of scum.

What these people allegedly did is nothing short of monsterish.

Should they be found guilty, I hope they get life.

But what do you think NSG?

Agree that this is monstrous, disagree with punishment.
They deserve the death penalty.
And I hope that the brother and sister gets the help they need for the undeserved guilt and trauma they will likely feel.
I don't hate much, child abusers and molesters though, I especially hate with a passion.

[Genivaria]

Whether these specific people are capable of being reformed is beside the point. They probably aren't, but they can get life without parole if that's the issue. The problem with the death penalty is that if it's on the table for this case, it will also be legal to apply to other cases, and we haven't figured out a reliable way to prevent it from being misused in states where it is on the books.

But that's an issue of abuse not an issue of the death penalty's existence.

For those of us who live in states like Texas abuse of the justice system at the individual's expense is not a possibility but a regular occurrence.

[Rusozak]

Why can we require a license to be a parent that entails going through psychological evaluation?

[Telconi]

But that's an issue of abuse not an issue of the death penalty's existence.

For those of us who live in states like Texas abuse of the justice system at the individual's expense is not a possibility but a regular occurrence.

The rate of abuse doesn't soil the action itself. I'm sure people are wrongly imprisoned more often than they are wrongly executed. This doesn't make imprisonment inherently wrong. More often still are people wrongly fined for traffic violations. This doesn't inherently invalidate traffic citations.

[Genivaria]

Why can we require a license to be a parent that entails going through psychological evaluation?

You mean why CAN'T we?
Fear of abuse of liberties I'd imagine.

[Thermodolia]

But that's an issue of abuse not an issue of the death penalty's existence.

For those of us who live in states like Texas abuse of the justice system at the individual's expense is not a possibility but a regular occurrence.

Does Texas have a separate trial where the death penalty is approved or not? Because that's what we have here in Georgia. You have the trial to prove guilt and then after that you have the trial to apply the death penalty.

[USS Monitor]

Whether these specific people are capable of being reformed is beside the point. They probably aren't, but they can get life without parole if that's the issue. The problem with the death penalty is that if it's on the table for this case, it will also be legal to apply to other cases, and we haven't figured out a reliable way to prevent it from being misused in states where it is on the books.

But that's an issue of abuse not an issue of the death penalty's existence.

If you know how to prevent the abuse without abolishing the death penalty, please tell us.

The death penalty is not necessary. States that do not have it are not suffering from elevated crime rates. Therefore, abolishing it entirely is a practical solution. Until someone comes up with another solution, I support abolishing the death penalty.

[Telconi]

Why can we require a license to be a parent that entails going through psychological evaluation?

Because that's totalitarian is fuck.

[Trumptonium]

Well ... yes ...

How?

Are they going to be raising children while they're in prison if we don't execute them? Do you have statistical evidence showing that the death penalty is an effective deterrent?

The question you posed was whether the death penalty will be more effective in protecting other children [presumably from this offender]

The logical conclusion is that their elimination is quite obviously going to be more effective than keeping them imprisoned, in the rare case of them being broken out or administratively let out by mistake, or them being let out in the long term to re-offend if the failed to be rehabilitated.

Whether it's an 'effective' deterrent is pretty irrelevant in the question you have posed, because the only time it becomes relevant is if there's statistics out there showing that the existence of a death penalty makes people abuse children more than without one, or that the lack of a death penalty is a better/default status if it isn't effective enough, by whatever measurement.

[Trumptonium]

Why can we require a license to be a parent that entails going through psychological evaluation?

Because that's totalitarian is fuck.

But it's not totalitarian to say who can and can't drive?

Then again, the US considers the ability to keep guns a divine right and anything else is totalitarian.

[USS Monitor]

How?

Are they going to be raising children while they're in prison if we don't execute them? Do you have statistical evidence showing that the death penalty is an effective deterrent?

Nobody has ever broken out of a grave and re-commited...

Life without parole would prevent these people from reoffending. They aren't the type who are likely to escape and go on a killing spree. Wouldn't pick on a defenseless kid if they were tough like that.

[Thermodolia]

But that's an issue of abuse not an issue of the death penalty's existence.

If you know how to prevent the abuse without abolishing the death penalty, please tell us.

The death penalty is not necessary. States that do not have it are not suffering from elevated crime rates. Therefore, abolishing it entirely is a practical solution. Until someone comes up with another solution, I support abolishing the death penalty.

However are states that have the death penalty suffering from high crime rates? If there's no difference between states that have the death penalty and states that don't then there's no real reason to keep or get rid of it except for moral reasons

[Telconi]

But that's an issue of abuse not an issue of the death penalty's existence.

If you know how to prevent the abuse without abolishing the death penalty, please tell us.

The death penalty is not necessary. States that do not have it are not suffering from elevated crime rates. Therefore, abolishing it entirely is a practical solution. Until someone comes up with another solution, I support abolishing the death penalty.

I have ideas, but do I have a magical abuse proof solution? Of course not.

As for necessity, frankly none of this is 'necessary' it's all orchestrated in a complex cost benefit analysis.

[Rusozak]

Why can we require a license to be a parent that entails going through psychological evaluation?

Because that's totalitarian is fuck.

And people have done SUCH a good job being responsible with their freedoms so far.

[Telconi]

Nobody has ever broken out of a grave and re-commited...

Life without parole would prevent these people from reoffending. They aren't the type who are likely to escape and go on a killing spree. Wouldn't pick on a defenseless kid if they were tough like that.

They may not be likely to, but it is theoretically possible. It isn't possible for them to re-commit post execution.

[Telconi]

Because that's totalitarian is fuck.

And people have done SUCH a good job being responsible with their freedoms so far.

Sure have.

[Genivaria]

For those of us who live in states like Texas abuse of the justice system at the individual's expense is not a possibility but a regular occurrence.

The rate of abuse doesn't soil the action itself. I'm sure people are wrongly imprisoned more often than they are wrongly executed. This doesn't make imprisonment inherently wrong. More often still are people wrongly fined for traffic violations. This doesn't inherently invalidate traffic citations.

....okay I have no response to that, valid point.