The #MeToo Campaign (Updated)

[Gravlen]

I agree they should be called the same. I reject they aren't because of oppression, or that it's a facet of oppression that women can only be convicted of sexual assault.

Then again, I don't really care what they're called, I care what actual consequences they face. The problem isn't that it's legally impossible for a woman to rape a man. (That could be fixed by simply calling sexual assault "rape", but that doesn't actually change anything substantial). The problem is that if they do, they face a lower maximum penalty. That should be changed, but I guess that's a sexist notion on my part.

Actually BOTH need to be changed. Imagine you are a victim of rape and then you are told "nah that's not REAL rape" how do you think that would make them feel?

That happens all the time, and will continue to happen. People will consider themselves raped even if the action doesn't fit the legal definition of rape.

Imagine you are a victim of robbery and then you are told "nah that's not REAL robbery" - because it was actually burglary, how do you think that would make you feel? The words aren't as loaded as rape, are they? But it makes no difference - or it shouldn't - whether you've been sexually assaulted or raped. You are the victim of a crime. If you go around telling victims of sexual assault that they haven't suffered real rape you're a dick. However, I don't think we need to start calling everything rape (or robbery) because there are dicks in the world.

To an extent such idiotic laws are a reflection of society's backwards views on men and women's gender roles but they also play a part in reinforcing those roles.

The easy solution is, of course, to do away with "rape" as a crime. Use the more accurat term "sexual assault" and its variations, and stop playing politics with a legal term.

How is it not oppression? Like you have conceded that there is a variation in sentencing and I would say that legally treating one victim as lesser than another victim purely because of their gender is by definition oppression. Combine that with the aspects not related to punishment such as the dehumanising of male victims of rape and you have a very oppressive law.

Words mean something. "Oppression" doesn't mean "possibly slightly unequal treatment, based on biological differences we may or may not agree with".

British law makers think that being penetrated by a penis is the worst type of sexual crime. I disagree, but there you are. The fact that they think that isn't oppression, however. If women could not be prosecuted for sexual crimes, it could be oppression (depending on the larger picture). That, however, is not the case.

But another thing I'm wondering is that if you agree that it should be called rape and should have an equal sentence then why was your first reaction to attack someone who points out that there's a problem?

Because you're not pointing out the problem, you're creating a distraction when you claim that men are victims of "oppression". They're not. You were wrong, and that was worth pointing out.

The sexist notion on your part was refusing to recognise that male rape victims are also victims of oppression, as the crimes against them is in effect only partially recognised.

How are crimes against them only partially recognized when people who transgress against them are punished for their transgressions?

In case A, a person is raped, and the perpetrator is convicted and sentenced to 5 years in prison.
In case B, a person is sexually assaulted, and the perpetrator is convicted and sentenced to 5 years in prison.

How is the crime in case B only partially recognized?

[United States of Red Dawn]

It's a twitter campaign. Simple enough to hijack.

In fact, I may propose exactly that to the MRM reddit.

"If you're a male who has been sexually assaulted, go do the metoo stuff. Add MRM to the tag."

Men are already doing that, case in point terry crews as people noted above.

There should be men coming forward who have been harassed or assaulted outright by women. AFAIK, Terry Crews was groped by another man, he claims.

Women have been in the workplace and in positions of authority over men for decades. There are more than likely plenty who have also abused their power just as much.

[Ostroeuropa]

Words mean something. "Oppression" doesn't mean "possibly slightly unequal treatment, based on biological differences we may or may not agree with".

Like say, not allowing women to do jobs involving certain types of labour or paying them less for it?

Suppose it were legal to pay women less on the basis they were not as strong. Oppression, yes or no?

How about an assertion about their lower intelligence based on biology? After all, it's as grounded as a belief that rape isn't as traumatic when done by a woman to a man.

I think this statement of yours is a fairly revealing window into the lack of consistent principles a belief in feminist assertions about oppression has caused in you.

Do you think, for instance, this law isn't oppression?
( https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/com ... aulting_a/ )

"in NC, a man assaulting a woman is the most serious class of misdemeanor but a woman assaulting a man is the second-least-serious misdemeanor"

[FelrikTheDeleted]

[
Return of Kings is such a cesspool... and they trash talked Mad Max.

They did what now?

[Herador]

[
Return of Kings is such a cesspool... and they trash talked Mad Max.

They did what now?

It was "feminist propaganda" or something because the main characters were mostly womz

[FelrikTheDeleted]

They did what now?

It was "feminist propaganda" or something because the main characters were mostly womz

Wait, we talking about 'Fury Road'? It was a fun watch, but it had undertones that annoyed me, the fact that Max seemed to be secondary to Furiosa also irked me.

[Herador]

It was "feminist propaganda" or something because the main characters were mostly womz

Wait, we talking about 'Fury Road'? It was a fun watch, but it had undertones that annoyed me, the fact that Max seemed to be secondary to Furiosa also irked me.

I've always seen Max more as the lens we see the world through rather than who the story is about. After the first movie (I think) he seemed to just be around incidentally and the story was about other people and their situations that he got involved in.

But yeah, they were talking about Fury Road.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

I've always seen Max more as the lens we see the world through rather than who the story is about. After the first movie (I think) he seemed to just be around incidentally and the story was about other people and their situations that he got involved in.

But yeah, they were talking about Fury Road.

I mean, in that case, if I were Miller, I'd have scrapped the introduction of Max, wherein he attempts to escape from Joe's place. Nonetheless, I see your point. So long as they portray Max properly and have a shit ton of action, I can't say I'm too unhappy.

[Herador]

I've always seen Max more as the lens we see the world through rather than who the story is about. After the first movie (I think) he seemed to just be around incidentally and the story was about other people and their situations that he got involved in.

But yeah, they were talking about Fury Road.

I mean, in that case, if I were Miller, I'd have scrapped the introduction of Max, wherein he attempts to escape from Joe's place. Nonetheless, I see your point. So long as they portray Max properly and have a shit ton of action, I can't say I'm too unhappy.

I'd say Max's capture and escape from Joe was as much about setting the tone of the movie and giving an introduction to Joe and The War Boys as it was about Max as a person. we don't really learn anything about Max in it other than he got captured, establishing his involvement, and that he is indeed Mad.

E: holy shit I hate phoneposting

[FelrikTheDeleted]

I'd say Max's capture and escape from Joe was as much about setting the tone of the movie and giving an introduction to Joe and The War Boys as it was about Max as a person. we don't really learn anything about Max in it other than he got captured, establishing his involvement, and that he is indeed Mad.

Personally I think his standing next to his car was enough (tfw I want Mel back, Tom is good, but muh Mel), but I guess it's a good way of introduction Max as a whole.

E: holy shit I hate phoneposting

That's a bad idea muh man.

[Herador]

I'd say Max's capture and escape from Joe was as much about setting the tone of the movie and giving an introduction to Joe and The War Boys as it was about Max as a person. we don't really learn anything about Max in it other than he got captured, establishing his involvement, and that he is indeed Mad.

Personally I think his standing next to his car was enough (tfw I want Mel back, Tom is good, but muh Mel), but I guess it's a good way of introduction Max as a whole.

E: holy shit I hate phoneposting

That's a bad idea muh man.

I can see a version of the movie without the bits in the fortress as working, in fairness. We do get scenes of the War Boys and Joe independent of that segment.

[New Edom]

I mean, in that case, if I were Miller, I'd have scrapped the introduction of Max, wherein he attempts to escape from Joe's place. Nonetheless, I see your point. So long as they portray Max properly and have a shit ton of action, I can't say I'm too unhappy.

I'd say Max's capture and escape from Joe was as much about setting the tone of the movie and giving an introduction to Joe and The War Boys as it was about Max as a person. we don't really learn anything about Max in it other than he got captured, establishing his involvement, and that he is indeed Mad.

E: holy shit I hate phoneposting

Max is virtually a pointless character in it. What made him interesting in the previous movies was his struggle to not be like the bad guys. He struggled with being fit to be around people. Then he has a kind of epiphany in the third movie.

In Fury Road, it should have continued that in some way. Instead he's just a bundle of Mad Max tropes. Furioso is the real main character. Since, however, there's an attempt to split focus we don't quite get enough of her either, so the result is a meh story with well done stunts and action editing. Maybe Miller is just getting old.

[Herador]

I'd say Max's capture and escape from Joe was as much about setting the tone of the movie and giving an introduction to Joe and The War Boys as it was about Max as a person. we don't really learn anything about Max in it other than he got captured, establishing his involvement, and that he is indeed Mad.

E: holy shit I hate phoneposting

Max is virtually a pointless character in it. What made him interesting in the previous movies was his struggle to not be like the bad guys. He struggled with being fit to be around people. Then he has a kind of epiphany in the third movie.

In Fury Road, it should have continued that in some way. Instead he's just a bundle of Mad Max tropes. Furioso is the real main character. Since, however, there's an attempt to split focus we don't quite get enough of her either, so the result is a meh story with well done stunts and action editing. Maybe Miller is just getting old.

Maybe you just don't like good movies?

Don't be bummed out, I do it too, I think Citizen Kane is over rated.

[New Edom]

Max is virtually a pointless character in it. What made him interesting in the previous movies was his struggle to not be like the bad guys. He struggled with being fit to be around people. Then he has a kind of epiphany in the third movie.

In Fury Road, it should have continued that in some way. Instead he's just a bundle of Mad Max tropes. Furioso is the real main character. Since, however, there's an attempt to split focus we don't quite get enough of her either, so the result is a meh story with well done stunts and action editing. Maybe Miller is just getting old.

Maybe you just don't like good movies?

Don't be bummed out, I do it too, I think Citizen Kane is over rated.

It's not a good movie. The plot is vague, the background for the main character barely hinted at. How the crazy dictators settlement works s vague, what he's trying to accomplish is vague. The movie is as bad as Prometheus or the Force Awakems for a meandering I'll conceived plot. Perhaps it is entertaining, that's fair, but otherwise it's stupid.

[Herador]

Maybe you just don't like good movies?

Don't be bummed out, I do it too, I think Citizen Kane is over rated.

It's not a good movie. The plot is vague, the background for the main character barely hinted at. How the crazy dictators settlement works s vague, what he's trying to accomplish is vague. The movie is as bad as Prometheus or the Force Awakems for a meandering I'll conceived plot. Perhaps it is entertaining, that's fair, but otherwise it's stupid.

Dude, it was a car chase movie, not Ben Hur

[New Edom]

It's not a good movie. The plot is vague, the background for the main character barely hinted at. How the crazy dictators settlement works s vague, what he's trying to accomplish is vague. The movie is as bad as Prometheus or the Force Awakems for a meandering I'll conceived plot. Perhaps it is entertaining, that's fair, but otherwise it's stupid.

Dude, it was a car chase movie, not Ben Hur

Im quite aware. Not the best car chase movie even. Special effects, stunts and editing were impressive, acting meh, story bleach. A simple story that makes sense goes a long way, it didn't have one. It was tropes flung at random.

My main point though was that I can see why some would be frustrated by the main characters. It should have either focused on Max or Furiosa fully and did neither, which was distracting. even if I said it was a good movie, this would have been a problem.

[Costa Fierro]

There should be men coming forward who have been harassed or assaulted outright by women. AFAIK, Terry Crews was groped by another man, he claims.

There were. They got shouted down because #MeToo is for women only.

[Alba-Nord]

You know your narrative has gone beyond what's reasonable when you feel the urge to use a campaign in response to Harvey Weinstein to whine "yeah, but what about men?!!"

Not necessarily. A one-sided campaign can lead to further marginalization of male victims.

It's not about male 'victims' when the point of the campaign is to promote the oppression of women's rights.

[The 502nd Ghost Division]

There should be men coming forward who have been harassed or assaulted outright by women. AFAIK, Terry Crews was groped by another man, he claims.

There were. They got shouted down because #MeToo is for women only.

I came out in a #Metoo facebook group and received nothing but support. Although in person I had people say that men can't be the victims of sex crimes because men enjoy it or something. Actually led to a very emotional class where I lost in front of my mentor and friends.

[Costa Fierro]

There were. They got shouted down because #MeToo is for women only.

I came out in a #Metoo facebook group and received nothing but support. Although in person I had people say that men can't be the victims of sex crimes because men enjoy it or something. Actually led to a very emotional class where I lost in front of my mentor and friends.

If you did it in front of friends, you're going to experience different results than if you did it in front of complete strangers. You've already been exposed to the kinds of mainstream opinions about men being victims, and that is something that we (well MRA's at least) want to change.

[The 502nd Ghost Division]

I came out in a #Metoo facebook group and received nothing but support. Although in person I had people say that men can't be the victims of sex crimes because men enjoy it or something. Actually led to a very emotional class where I lost in front of my mentor and friends.

If you did it in front of friends, you're going to experience different results than if you did it in front of complete strangers. You've already been exposed to the kinds of mainstream opinions about men being victims, and that is something that we (well MRA's at least) want to change.

It was in front of my court systems class after a woman said "Men can't be sex victims" in response to me using "he or she". I was coerced to apologize to her for raising my voice and standing up.

Edit: I've always played a male advocate role in debates, but I've been more direct as of late when I've been shut down for 'thought crimes'.

[Liriena]

Maybe you just don't like good movies?

Don't be bummed out, I do it too, I think Citizen Kane is over rated.

It's not a good movie. The plot is vague, the background for the main character barely hinted at. How the crazy dictators settlement works s vague, what he's trying to accomplish is vague. The movie is as bad as Prometheus or the Force Awakems for a meandering I'll conceived plot. Perhaps it is entertaining, that's fair, but otherwise it's stupid.

You dislike Fury Road and the Force Awakens? Boooooooooooo! Hissssssssssssss!

[Liriena]

There should be men coming forward who have been harassed or assaulted outright by women. AFAIK, Terry Crews was groped by another man, he claims.

There were. They got shouted down because #MeToo is for women only.

Except they weren't? And now we have plenty of men openly sharing their stories and getting media attention and public support?

[Petrasylvania]

There were. They got shouted down because #MeToo is for women only.

Except they weren't? And now we have plenty of men openly sharing their stories and getting media attention and public support?

Can't harp on the talking points about feminazis plotting Complete Global Castration if you acknowledge that men are being welcomed on #MeToo.

[Costa Fierro]

Can't harp on the talking points about feminazis plotting Complete Global Castration if you acknowledge that men are being welcomed on #MeToo.

They're not being welcomed. But don't let facts get in the way of whatever it is you two have going here.