Yeah, sure, baselessly take credit. If you can't convincingly complain that this is a gynocentrist ploy, turn it into a meninist victory.
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by Liriena » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:37 pm
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by Liriena » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:38 pm
Ostroeuropa wrote:Liriena wrote:Seriously. I mean, when we have threads about homophobia, I don't immediately scream "yeah, but what about biphobia among gay men, huh?". Its a legitimate problem alright, but I don't have this weird urge to bring it up to undermine others.
There isn't a substantial and powerful section of the LGBT lobby that adamantly denies biphobia is a thing, and fudges research to discriminate against bi people.
False comparison.
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:39 pm
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Conserative Morality » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:39 pm
Luminesa wrote:Proving your own point, you said a lot of nothing with quite a lot of words.
by Ostroeuropa » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:40 pm
Liriena wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:
They're speaking out in large part because of years of effort from the MRM to do this kind of thing. The feminist movement has done comparatively nothing.
Yeah, sure, baselessly take credit. If you can't convincingly complain that this is a gynocentrist ploy, turn it into a meninist victory.
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Egalitarian here. A woman also. Since this campaign is an initiative stemming from the Weinstein cases, I don't think it's about only saving or protecting women. In point of fact, I have seen a large number of men using the hashtag too in social media, like Facebook and IG. And been encouraged by others, including women, to break the silence and speak up about their sexual harassment experiences.
by Luminesa » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:41 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:Luminesa wrote:
Things past incarnations of Lumi have probably said:
"Writing about it doesn't do anything! Books don't matter! If you aren't talking to people, what's the point?"
"Radio? What kind of 'communication' is that? How's that going to help anything? If it's not in the newspapers, who's it going to reach?"
"TV? That's child's play. You can't address real problems through visual media!"
by Conserative Morality » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:42 pm
Luminesa wrote:Gosh, Lumi, you’re such an ancient bag of bones, get with the times. You’re even more regressive than the guy who knew everything you were gonna say before you actually said it! Amazing!
by Vassenor » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:43 pm
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Egalitarian here. A woman also. Since this campaign is an initiative stemming from the Weinstein cases, I don't think it's about only saving or protecting women. In point of fact, I have seen a large number of men using the hashtag too in social media, like Facebook and IG. And been encouraged by others, including women, to break the silence and speak up about their sexual harassment experiences.
by Luminesa » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:43 pm
by Proctopeo » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:44 pm
by Galloism » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:44 pm
by Luminesa » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:45 pm
by Ostroeuropa » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:46 pm
Vassenor wrote:Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Egalitarian here. A woman also. Since this campaign is an initiative stemming from the Weinstein cases, I don't think it's about only saving or protecting women. In point of fact, I have seen a large number of men using the hashtag too in social media, like Facebook and IG. And been encouraged by others, including women, to break the silence and speak up about their sexual harassment experiences.
But that's injurious to the narrative that this is all about oppressing men, so I presume we're not going to be allowed to talk about that.
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:46 pm
Vassenor wrote:Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Egalitarian here. A woman also. Since this campaign is an initiative stemming from the Weinstein cases, I don't think it's about only saving or protecting women. In point of fact, I have seen a large number of men using the hashtag too in social media, like Facebook and IG. And been encouraged by others, including women, to break the silence and speak up about their sexual harassment experiences.
But that's injurious to the narrative that this is all about oppressing men, so I presume we're not going to be allowed to talk about that.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Conserative Morality » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:48 pm
Proctopeo wrote:I have to side with Lumi here - a Twitter hashtag alone will do little. Backing it up with action, however, will do far more.
However, Twitter hashtag campaigns are very good in one aspect: if they backfire, the main negative consequence is that the people who started it are quite embarrassed. If an action backfires, you might make a new problem or worsen the one you tried to solve, making a campaign on Twitter much safer than taking action.
by Chestaan » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:48 pm
Liriena wrote:You know your narrative has gone beyond what's reasonable when you feel the urge to use a campaign in response to Harvey Weinstein to whine "yeah, but what about men?!!"
by Soldati Senza Confini » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:51 pm
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.
by Conserative Morality » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:52 pm
Soldati Senza Confini wrote:As far as I know, the #metoo campaign is a pointless exercise in awareness.
Awareness is a form of doing nothing. It opens no dialogue to the conversation that needs to be had. It's just a form of saying "yea, I want you to look. I don't really care about the issue to open up a conversation about it, but I am happy if you just look".
In other words, without opening dialogue and discussion on the issue of sexual assault and how it affects everyone, I am afraid all this campaign is doing is giving an opportunity for navel gazers to navel gaze.
by Neutraligon » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:52 pm
Soldati Senza Confini wrote:As far as I know, the #metoo campaign is a pointless exercise in awareness.
Awareness is a form of doing nothing. It opens no dialogue to the conversation that needs to be had. It's just a form of saying "yea, I want you to look. I don't really care about the issue to open up a conversation about it, but I am happy if you just look".
In other words, without opening dialogue and discussion on the issue of sexual assault and how it affects everyone, I am afraid all this campaign is doing is giving an opportunity for navel gazers to navel gaze.
by Proctopeo » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:53 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:Proctopeo wrote:I have to side with Lumi here - a Twitter hashtag alone will do little. Backing it up with action, however, will do far more.
However, Twitter hashtag campaigns are very good in one aspect: if they backfire, the main negative consequence is that the people who started it are quite embarrassed. If an action backfires, you might make a new problem or worsen the one you tried to solve, making a campaign on Twitter much safer than taking action.
The point of this particular hashtag is to share experiences - to let it be known that there are people you know who've experienced this kind of shit. If it was just a hashtag, you'd have a point. But it's not. It's a tag to mark the ubiquity of such personal stories in the wake of a scandal.
by Luminesa » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:53 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:Proctopeo wrote:I have to side with Lumi here - a Twitter hashtag alone will do little. Backing it up with action, however, will do far more.
However, Twitter hashtag campaigns are very good in one aspect: if they backfire, the main negative consequence is that the people who started it are quite embarrassed. If an action backfires, you might make a new problem or worsen the one you tried to solve, making a campaign on Twitter much safer than taking action.
The point of this particular hashtag is to share experiences - to let it be known that there are people you know who've experienced this kind of shit. If it was just a hashtag, you'd have a point. But it's not. It's a tag to mark the ubiquity of such personal stories in the wake of a scandal.
by Soldati Senza Confini » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:54 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:Soldati Senza Confini wrote:As far as I know, the #metoo campaign is a pointless exercise in awareness.
Awareness is a form of doing nothing. It opens no dialogue to the conversation that needs to be had. It's just a form of saying "yea, I want you to look. I don't really care about the issue to open up a conversation about it, but I am happy if you just look".
In other words, without opening dialogue and discussion on the issue of sexual assault and how it affects everyone, I am afraid all this campaign is doing is giving an opportunity for navel gazers to navel gaze.
Right, because being unaware of a subject makes it infinitely easier to address. Awareness is worthless.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.
by Ostroeuropa » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:54 pm
Neutraligon wrote:Soldati Senza Confini wrote:As far as I know, the #metoo campaign is a pointless exercise in awareness.
Awareness is a form of doing nothing. It opens no dialogue to the conversation that needs to be had. It's just a form of saying "yea, I want you to look. I don't really care about the issue to open up a conversation about it, but I am happy if you just look".
In other words, without opening dialogue and discussion on the issue of sexual assault and how it affects everyone, I am afraid all this campaign is doing is giving an opportunity for navel gazers to navel gaze.
Seems to me that the campaign is a way to open dialogue.
by Luminesa » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:54 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:Soldati Senza Confini wrote:As far as I know, the #metoo campaign is a pointless exercise in awareness.
Awareness is a form of doing nothing. It opens no dialogue to the conversation that needs to be had. It's just a form of saying "yea, I want you to look. I don't really care about the issue to open up a conversation about it, but I am happy if you just look".
In other words, without opening dialogue and discussion on the issue of sexual assault and how it affects everyone, I am afraid all this campaign is doing is giving an opportunity for navel gazers to navel gaze.
Right, because being unaware of a subject makes it infinitely easier to address. Awareness is worthless.
by Conserative Morality » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:55 pm
Proctopeo wrote:Later in my post I used the term "Twitter hashtag campaigns", which I'm pretty sure does accurately describe it.
My point still stands, by the way. The campaign alone won't be enough to do more than a little; raise awareness, perhaps, but with limited scope.
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