Authoritarians, Assemble!

[Pasong Tirad]

How Christian of you.

Would you say it's unchristian to punish murderers and rapists?

That's not what you're asking for. You're asking to punish people for doing things that your version of Christianity wouldn't do. Like fuck around or sleep with their own sex or, as you've mentioned before, go against the Christian state.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Would you say it's unchristian to punish murderers and rapists?

Nobody is saying that. Nobody advocates that.

The point of contention is you wanting to have an authoritarian theocracy where the rights of those who don't believe and those who don't hold up to your moral standards are punished in the most un-Christian of ways.

Punishing someone for murder and rape would be punishing them for not meeting the moral standards.

[Pilarcraft]

How Christian of you.

Would you say it's unchristian to punish murderers and rapists?

How in the entire world are these two relevant. being a murderer or a rapist has nothing to do with one's religion.

[Lancaster of Wessex]

Nobody is saying that. Nobody advocates that.

The point of contention is you wanting to have an authoritarian theocracy where the rights of those who don't believe and those who don't hold up to your moral standards are punished in the most un-Christian of ways.

Punishing someone for murder and rape would be punishing them for not meeting the moral standards.

Nobody is talking about punishing ONLY murderers and rapists. You've turned it into that to distract from the other points of contention.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Can you clarify the question, I don't understand what you're asking.

Would it be "Christian" for Christians to strike down Christians who murder and rape?

To kill them? Yes, killing is wrong. To imprison them or give them the lash? No, it's a necessary and just punishment.

[Neutraligon]

Nobody is saying that. Nobody advocates that.

The point of contention is you wanting to have an authoritarian theocracy where the rights of those who don't believe and those who don't hold up to your moral standards are punished in the most un-Christian of ways.

Punishing someone for murder and rape would be punishing them for not meeting the moral standards.

I disagree. neither murder nor rape laws have anything to do with morality.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Would you say it's unchristian to punish murderers and rapists?

How in the entire world are these two relevant. being a murderer or a rapist has nothing to do with one's religion.

How we judge that murder and rape are morally wrong definitely does.

[Genivaria]

Would you say it's unchristian to punish murderers and rapists?

That's not what you're asking for. You're asking to punish people for doing things that your version of Christianity wouldn't do. Like fuck around or sleep with their own sex or, as you've mentioned before, go against the Christian state.

Demonization is always the first step.

[Pasong Tirad]

That's not what he's asking. He's asking you to provide a source for your claim that 90%+ of the world is happy with having fewer rights. Source it.

You might also as well provide sources for how you came up with the idea that most of the world doesn't live in states that don't have social programs.

You can't measure happiness. It's not a number. It was OBVIOUSLY not a sociological fact, but advocation for the "noble savage" lifestyle.
They are happier because happiness isn't based having "rights" people in your social circle consider important. If you actually knew life outside of reality of the big city you would understand it too without asking for sources. If they weren't happy they wouldn't be advocating against those very "rights" (whose advocation is mostly attributed to constant media repeating) and for restrictive religious laws like they do in the west.

You might explain to me how would things like advocating for feminism and rights of spoiled teenagers to wear tattoos and skimpy clothes without reprisal work with most of the world which lives in poor african and asian countries in primitive shacks having at least half a dozen kids per family.

Ah, okay, so you're saying all you've said is complete bullshit and you don't have evidence to back up your claims? Gotcha.

Because, you know, people in my country never protest. Especially those who live outside the cities. /s

[United Muscovite Nations]

Would you say it's unchristian to punish murderers and rapists?

That's not what you're asking for. You're asking to punish people for doing things that your version of Christianity wouldn't do. Like fuck around or sleep with their own sex or, as you've mentioned before, go against the Christian state.

I don't think those things are much less, or any less evil than the formerly mentioned things. They're all evil and should be put a stop to.

[Neutraligon]

How in the entire world are these two relevant. being a murderer or a rapist has nothing to do with one's religion.

How we judge that murder and rape are morally wrong definitely does.

Sure, in Islam for instance a woman who was raped who is a virgin can marry her rapist. I don't recall Jesus changing the old testament laws on what happens to a rapist or rape victim.

[Genivaria]

Would it be "Christian" for Christians to strike down Christians who murder and rape?

To kill them? Yes, killing is wrong. To imprison them or give them the lash? No, it's a necessary and just punishment.

So then your fellow Christians here would be more then justified in imprisoning you by your own logic.
Although I find 'the lash' distasteful but I guess that's my 'degeneracy' talking.

[United Muscovite Nations]

To kill them? Yes, killing is wrong. To imprison them or give them the lash? No, it's a necessary and just punishment.

So then your fellow Christians here would be more then justified in imprisoning you by your own logic.
Although I find 'the lash' distasteful but I guess that's my 'degeneracy' talking.

And I find prison to be far more cruel than the lash.

[Pilarcraft]

How in the entire world are these two relevant. being a murderer or a rapist has nothing to do with one's religion.

How we judge that murder and rape are morally wrong definitely does.

and, in case you don't know, since before Judaism, many people have defined those two crimes as morally wrong (and, in recent cases, criminal rather than immoral).
The one I believe in is because it takes away a person's rights (aka because they're both nonconsensual)
the one Law, in the majority of the western world, follows is more or less the same reason.
If you're trying to go with this to say it's immoral because it's against Christianity, try again. religion and morals have nothing to do with each other.

[Genivaria]

So then your fellow Christians here would be more then justified in imprisoning you by your own logic.
Although I find 'the lash' distasteful but I guess that's my 'degeneracy' talking.

And I find prison to be far more cruel than the lash.

I'm an advocate of rehabilitation.
Wait, you just said that you'd imprison them and give them the lash.
Make up your mind.

[Lancaster of Wessex]

That's not what you're asking for. You're asking to punish people for doing things that your version of Christianity wouldn't do. Like fuck around or sleep with their own sex or, as you've mentioned before, go against the Christian state.

I don't think those things are much less, or any less evil than the formerly mentioned things. They're all evil and should be put a stop to.

You nor any quasi-fascist Christian state can stop them. Persecution solves nothing.

And from earlier: "Nobody is talking about punishing ONLY murderers and rapists. You've turned it into that to distract from the other points of contention."

[Slavonia and Srijem]

I like authoritarianism because its more efficient.

is that why your economy is basket case?

[United Muscovite Nations]

And I find prison to be far more cruel than the lash.

I'm an advocate of rehabilitation.
Wait, you just said that you'd imprison them and give them the lash.
Make up your mind.

Imprison or give them the lash. It depends on the crime. Some people have to be kept apart from society because they are dangerous, while others just need to be punished and released.

[Lancaster of Wessex]

I like authoritarianism because its more efficient.

is that why your economy is basket case?

This is not an in-character discussion.

[Pasong Tirad]

That's not what you're asking for. You're asking to punish people for doing things that your version of Christianity wouldn't do. Like fuck around or sleep with their own sex or, as you've mentioned before, go against the Christian state.

I don't think those things are much less, or any less evil than the formerly mentioned things. They're all evil and should be put a stop to.

Republic of Gilead when?

[United Muscovite Nations]

I don't think those things are much less, or any less evil than the formerly mentioned things. They're all evil and should be put a stop to.

Republic of Gilead when?

I don't understand the reference.

I just think Tsar Alexander III was a hero and he had the right idea.

[Pasong Tirad]

Republic of Gilead when?

I don't understand the reference.

I just think Tsar Alexander III was a hero and he had the right idea.

Ah, yes. What was it? Autocracy, Orthodoxy, something something.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I don't understand the reference.

I just think Tsar Alexander III was a hero and he had the right idea.

Ah, yes. What was it? Autocracy, Orthodoxy, something something.

That was Nicholas I. Alexander III was "Unshakeable Autocracy"

[USS Monitor]

I had a similar feeling about living in China vs. living in the US, but I think part of that is just because being a foreigner makes you take things less personally. The language barrier and being a foreigner meant I didn't follow politics as closely when I lived in China. Being a foreigner also means that the locals don't expect the same level of conformity from you as they would from one of their own.

So I think it's less evidence in favor of authoritarianism and more evidence that it's not healthy to spend too much time obsessing over politics. In Western democracies, simply turning off your TV and not reading the news for a few weeks goes a long way to cure that feeling of the government being in your business.

You might be very right about that.

Yes, I think being a foreigner gives you a bit of a pass you don't get back home. Social freedoms I have while still present for me, might not necessarily be there for your average Chinese person who faces cultural stigmas if not laws against doing the same thing. I think perhaps you strike the nail on the head when you say that it's just living in a democracy can be exhausting at times because you feel involved in everything. Maybe my newfound appreciation for the authoritarian is just a symptom of "democracy fatigue".

Truthfully, I'm just playing devil's advocate here and enjoy sharing what is I think my own pretty unique perspective as someone living quite comfortably in a country that is on paper anyways anathema to my stated political beliefs. It's both softened my views on it and widened my appreciation for how human societies can function.

It is an interesting experience to live in China and see how the decency of the populace shapes your day to day experience more than the authoritarianism of the government. I do think the media in the West often paints China as a worse place than it really is, and a lot of Americans fear it more than there is any reason to. A lot of people are able to have decent lives there. Some run into serious problems, if they happen to be too much at odds with the social norms and the political order, but a lot of people do OK.

And even when you do have to deal with the authorities, they're nosy, but they aren't vicious unless you challenge them. The Shanghai police caught me teaching at a school that wasn't authorized to have foreign teachers. I got brought into a police station and questioned, but they were polite and they let me go back to my apartment when they were done asking questions. I couldn't teach at that school anymore, obviously, but I wasn't arrested or deported. When I went back to visit China again 9 years later, they didn't deny my visa. They just wanted to stick their noses in our business and charge my employer some fines.

I think there are things the West could learn from China, but mostly social and cultural things rather than political ones. In particular, family-oriented attitudes, appreciation for quality food, health-conscious habits like the way a lot of people will do tai-chi or kick around shuttlecocks in a park before they go to work... It's not the easiest thing when you've got so many people jammed together in one country and competing for jobs, but most Chinese are conscientious about taking care of themselves so they're ready to take on the day's challenges. I think Americans would be in a much better place if we paid as much attention to taking care of ourselves.

[Genivaria]

You might be very right about that.

Yes, I think being a foreigner gives you a bit of a pass you don't get back home. Social freedoms I have while still present for me, might not necessarily be there for your average Chinese person who faces cultural stigmas if not laws against doing the same thing. I think perhaps you strike the nail on the head when you say that it's just living in a democracy can be exhausting at times because you feel involved in everything. Maybe my newfound appreciation for the authoritarian is just a symptom of "democracy fatigue".

Truthfully, I'm just playing devil's advocate here and enjoy sharing what is I think my own pretty unique perspective as someone living quite comfortably in a country that is on paper anyways anathema to my stated political beliefs. It's both softened my views on it and widened my appreciation for how human societies can function.

It is an interesting experience to live in China and see how the decency of the populace shapes your day to day experience more than the authoritarianism of the government. I do think the media in the West often paints China as a worse place than it really is, and a lot of Americans fear it more than there is any reason to. A lot of people are able to have decent lives there. Some run into serious problems, if they happen to be too much at odds with the social norms and the political order, but a lot of people do OK.

And even when you do have to deal with the authorities, they're nosy, but they aren't vicious unless you challenge them. The Shanghai police caught me teaching at a school that wasn't authorized to have foreign teachers. I got brought into a police station and questioned, but they were polite and they let me go back to my apartment when they were done asking questions. I couldn't teach at that school anymore, obviously, but I wasn't arrested or deported. When I went back to visit China again 9 years later, they didn't deny my visa. They just wanted to stick their noses in our business and charge my employer some fines.

I think there are things the West could learn from China, but mostly social and cultural things rather than political ones. In particular, family-oriented attitudes, appreciation for quality food, health-conscious habits like the way a lot of people will do tai-chi or kick around shuttlecocks in a park before they go to work... It's not the easiest thing when you've got so many people jammed together in one country and competing for jobs, but most Chinese are conscientious about taking care of themselves so they're ready to take on the day's challenges. I think Americans would be in a much better place if we paid as much attention to taking care of ourselves.

The odd thing is that I entirely agree that China has alot of cultural values that we could learn from, I just find it annoying when those who romanticize their politics fail to distinguish the two.