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Mars or a border wall?

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Should the US build a wall or land on Mars?

Border Wall!
38
14%
Mars!
162
58%
I'm not murican so Border Wall
13
5%
I'm not murican so Mars!
64
23%
 
Total votes : 277

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Grenartia
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:51 am

Mars all the fucking way. The only wall I'd support involves boxing in Trump and his cronies for life (preferably on Phobos or something, don't want to taint humanity's second home, and don't want to taint its natural heritage (the moon)).

Space Prison for Trump et al., would probably only be a few billion (certainly don't need to pay guards or anything, since it'll be in space, and so if he gets out, he's just going to die in the cold, hard vacuum), and the rest for Mars.
Last edited by Grenartia on Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Petrolheadia
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Postby Petrolheadia » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:39 am

Grenartia wrote:Mars all the fucking way. The only wall I'd support involves boxing in Trump and his cronies for life (preferably on Phobos or something, don't want to taint humanity's second home, and don't want to taint its natural heritage (the moon)).

Space Prison for Trump et al., would probably only be a few billion (certainly don't need to pay guards or anything, since it'll be in space, and so if he gets out, he's just going to die in the cold, hard vacuum), and the rest for Mars.

Putting a man in prison in the middle in nowhere for his political views?

Love it. I fucking do.
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Grenartia
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Founded: Feb 14, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:59 am

Petrolheadia wrote:
Grenartia wrote:Mars all the fucking way. The only wall I'd support involves boxing in Trump and his cronies for life (preferably on Phobos or something, don't want to taint humanity's second home, and don't want to taint its natural heritage (the moon)).

Space Prison for Trump et al., would probably only be a few billion (certainly don't need to pay guards or anything, since it'll be in space, and so if he gets out, he's just going to die in the cold, hard vacuum), and the rest for Mars.

Putting a man in prison in the middle in nowhere for his political views?

Love it. I fucking do.


I don't advocate it because of his political views, I advocate it because he's a criminal scumbag.
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Militant Costco
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Founded: Feb 06, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Militant Costco » Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:34 am

We could just go to Mars, open up a Taco Bell, call it Mexico and build a wall around it and say we accomplished both tasks.

That's what I expect a NASA under Trump would do.
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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:37 am

Border Mars.
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Petrolheadia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Petrolheadia » Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:07 am

Grenartia wrote:
Petrolheadia wrote:Putting a man in prison in the middle in nowhere for his political views?

Love it. I fucking do.


I don't advocate it because of his political views, I advocate it because he's a criminal scumbag.

Ah.

Still, a better use of that money would be, say, refunding Trump "University" graduates.
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Coalition of North American States
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Founded: May 31, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Coalition of North American States » Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:47 am

To the Stars!
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Greater Cesnica
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:49 am

Who the fuck would choose the wall? Mars for the win!

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United States of Red Dawn
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Ex-Nation

Postby United States of Red Dawn » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:39 am

If they need volunteer citizens to go to Mars and live in a colony at some point, I think I would go as long as it isn't permanent. Maybe I'll be a miner 49ner.
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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:46 am

Petrolheadia wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
I don't advocate it because of his political views, I advocate it because he's a criminal scumbag.

Ah.

Still, a better use of that money would be, say, refunding Trump "University" graduates.

When we space-imprison Trump though we can just seize his assets and do it anyway.
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The Goggles
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Founded: Jun 20, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Goggles » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:50 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:
The Goggles wrote:Anything but Mars. I firmly believe that we should finish exploring this planet before we go trying to explore other planets.

Why do you believe this?

I've always found the ocean more interesting than space.

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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:25 am

The Goggles wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:Why do you believe this?

I've always found the ocean more interesting than space.

Well, you're weird and you're wrong, but the utility that can be found through space travel is far greater than looking deeper into the oceans.
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Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
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USS Monitor
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Founded: Jul 01, 2015
19th Century Iron Steamship

Postby USS Monitor » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:13 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:
The Goggles wrote:I've always found the ocean more interesting than space.

Well, you're weird and you're wrong, but the utility that can be found through space travel is far greater than looking deeper into the oceans.


Nah, the ocean is awesome. The fact that it's full of living things means it offers more opportunities to learn about biology and a higher likelihood of discovering something medically useful. Having a more thorough understanding of all parts of Earth's ecosystem might help us to protect it more effectively as well.
Last edited by USS Monitor on Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:34 am

USS Monitor wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:Well, you're weird and you're wrong, but the utility that can be found through space travel is far greater than looking deeper into the oceans.


Nah, the ocean is awesome. The fact that it's full of living things means it offers more opportunities to learn about biology and a higher likelihood of discovering something medically useful. Having a more thorough understanding of all parts of Earth's ecosystem might help us to protect it more effectively as well.

I don't think that's particularly the case. Certainly, the only parts of the oceans remaining unexplored are the deepest depths. They're fairly isolated from ocean warming and other elements of climate change, and terrestrial life already holds enough mysteries to try and unlock for medical utility.

It'd be interesting, but far greater utility would be provided in the long run from exploration of further celestial bodies.
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Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
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The Emerald Legion
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Father Knows Best State

Postby The Emerald Legion » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:34 am

USS Monitor wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:Well, you're weird and you're wrong, but the utility that can be found through space travel is far greater than looking deeper into the oceans.


Nah, the ocean is awesome. The fact that it's full of living things means it offers more opportunities to learn about biology and a higher likelihood of discovering something medically useful. Having a more thorough understanding of all parts of Earth's ecosystem might help us to protect it more effectively as well.


Why protect it when we can escape it?
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Sjealla
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Postby Sjealla » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:35 am

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Marilyn Manson Freaks
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Ex-Nation

Postby Marilyn Manson Freaks » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:36 am

Obviously Mars.
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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:50 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
USS Monitor wrote:
Nah, the ocean is awesome. The fact that it's full of living things means it offers more opportunities to learn about biology and a higher likelihood of discovering something medically useful. Having a more thorough understanding of all parts of Earth's ecosystem might help us to protect it more effectively as well.


Why protect it when we can escape it?

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New Rogernomics
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby New Rogernomics » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:01 am

Why not a border wall on Mars, to keep the microbes out?

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Discoursepan
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Founded: Jun 16, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Discoursepan » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:13 am

Alvecia wrote:
Purpelia wrote:That's only true for economies who have a constant supply of spare economic capacity to create new jobs. And that's only true in industrial economies like those in China and the developing world (And the western world several decades ago). In economies with a shortage of spare work places and industry the opposite is true. In those societies immigration drives down the price of labor by competing for the same, limited and insufficient supply of jobs thus driving medium income and demand down. This in turn has a negative effect long term as it drives down the incentive to expand the economy by opening new businesses.

TLDR if you are already growing than more people means faster growth. If you are NOT growing than more people means even less growth.

That doesn't sounds quite right to me. Surely with more consumers, the supply of jobs increases as well as businesses expand to meet the demands of the increased market.

You can oversaturate some segments of the economy (unskilled labor, for instance), because the creation of jobs proportional to demand, when it happens, doesn't automatically create the jobs most suited to whoever comes in.

There are other complications as well. Real estate doesn't increase proportionally to labor, for instance.

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Discoursepan
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Founded: Jun 16, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Discoursepan » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:20 am

Singularity Multiversal Travel Empire wrote:Who the fuck could even believe that more people in an economy decreases its' value...it's not like it's literally a piece of bread.

Let me know when immigration increases the amount of land in a country.

Also, it matters a lot which immigrants you bring in, something the mass migration side only too eager to sweep under the rug. Maybe if we made you and the others take out insurance on the immigrants you'd have a better understanding.

Especially when the mass immigration side is all about "but they're poor! it's SO UNFAIR to keep them out!"

But let's be clear - all this stuff about immigration helping people is a sideshow.

You cannot solve global poverty through immigration so long as the net population growth in poor countries exceeds about 2-10 million per year.

The only way to actually solve global poverty is to increase the economic production of the countries from which mass migrations are underway, and cut their birthrates to something much closer to replacement level. At that point most of them won't want to leave anyway.

Too bad "we have to respect their culture" is, in many ways, incompatible with that.
Last edited by Discoursepan on Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The Greater Siriusian Domain
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Greater Siriusian Domain » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:22 am

Mars. Problem is it's going to cost a lot more if you want to do things right. Most plans I've seen seem to be along the lines of "send a really big lander and hope everyone's OK with being cramped in it for several months while waiting for the next transfer window back to Earth". For a mission of this size, it would likely be better to establish a sort of orbital spaceport in orbit around the planet, establish ice mining operations to produce fuel, and then start building a large ground base and outposts at points of interest. But that's going to cost a lot more than 50 billion USD.
Last edited by The Greater Siriusian Domain on Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:37 pm

Why not both ?
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Catochristoferson
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Catochristoferson » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:14 am

I wouldn't mind a Mars program. As long as Elon Musk has nothing to do with it than it's fine.

But we live under a capitalist system so it's most likely going to be the case that Elon Musk pours billions into Mars colonization or something.
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Omega Cyber-collective
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Ex-Nation

Postby Omega Cyber-collective » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:22 am

Mars, then build a wall ring around the sun to collect energy.

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