Statue Removal Megathread: Is History In Danger or What?

[United States of Red Dawn]

Actually, I was saying that I didn't see the need to be hypersensitive, like some. Even though there are symbols that disgust me too.

It's a shit point when you're comparing the centuries of varying degrees of systemic oppression of minorities in America.........

So, when does the pay back end? How many more things, or people, have to disappear before they're satisfied?

[Liriena]

Nice try.

You're arguing against a made up opponent in the hopes that statistical probability will work in your favor and produce, somewhere out there, someone who actually believes what you just made up.

[Torrocca]

It's a shit point when you're comparing the centuries of varying degrees of systemic oppression of minorities in America.........

So, when does the pay back end? How many more things, or people, have to disappear before they're satisfied?

Depends - how many more statues and symbols revering Nazis and the oppression and tyranny they committed have to fall in Germany before everyone's satisfied by their destruction?

The answer's easy: all of them.

[Internationalist Bastard]

It's a shit point when you're comparing the centuries of varying degrees of systemic oppression of minorities in America.........

So, when does the pay back end? How many more things, or people, have to disappear before they're satisfied?

Look, I stand by my general distaste for all our monuments anyway. Maybe we should move these things to museums, like that creepy Washington statue that makes him look like a god

[United States of Red Dawn]

So, when does the pay back end? How many more things, or people, have to disappear before they're satisfied?

Depends - how many more statues and symbols revering Nazis and the oppression and tyranny they committed have to fall in Germany before everyone's satisfied by their destruction?

The answer's easy: all of them.

Jebus, you're great food for the Right. Manna from heaven.

[Proctopeo]

You're arguing against a made up opponent in the hopes that statistical probability will work in your favor and produce, somewhere out there, someone who actually believes what you just made up.

More accurately, I was being funny and then realized that someone somewhere might actually agree with what I said.
Good guess, though. You were almost slightly not wrong.

[Liriena]

It's a shit point when you're comparing the centuries of varying degrees of systemic oppression of minorities in America.........

So, when does the pay back end? How many more things, or people, have to disappear before they're satisfied?

People have been forcibly disappeared to appease black activists? Or are you just being melodramatic?

To answer your disingenuous question though... I don't know. Black activists are not a hivemind. These "they" you speak of probably won't collectively come to a unanimous consensus.

Very, very weak fear-mongering on your part.

Also, it's just statues, and they aren't being desintegrated or put on a rocket to the Sun. Y'all seriously need thicker skins when it comes to statues.

[Valgora]

So, when does the pay back end? How many more things, or people, have to disappear before they're satisfied?

Depends - how many more statues and symbols revering Nazis and the oppression and tyranny they committed have to fall in Germany before everyone's satisfied by their destruction?

The answer's easy: all of them.

Honestly... I actually think you're right.
They just use museums and teach it in school.

[Torrocca]

Depends - how many more statues and symbols revering Nazis and the oppression and tyranny they committed have to fall in Germany before everyone's satisfied by their destruction?

The answer's easy: all of them.

Jebus, you're great food for the Right. Manna from heaven.

Making an easy and comparable comparison is being "food for the Right" now?

[Ifreann]

Such as?


Not wanting monuments in honor of people who thought black people were lesser beings worthy of lesser rights is being "hypersensitive" now?

Just In Case™ we need to only build monuments in honor of people who could have never met a black person in their life, to avoid the possibility. So... statues of ancient Far Eastern historical figures for everybody? That would be... uh... Qin Shi Huang... maybe another person...

Musa Keita I of Mali, better known as Mansa Musa. Being an African emperor we can safely assume that he did not think that black people were lesser beings worth of lesser rights, and as one of the richest people to have ever lived he would be an excellent aspirational figure for Americans today. Work hard, pursue your dreams, and some day you may follow in the footsteps of the Lion of Mali and be so insanely rich that you will personally control the price of gold.

[Proctopeo]

So, when does the pay back end? How many more things, or people, have to disappear before they're satisfied?

Depends - how many more statues and symbols revering Nazis and the oppression and tyranny they committed have to fall in Germany before everyone's satisfied by their destruction?

The answer's easy: all of them.

Ideally, the same should apply to Russia and the statues from the Soviets as well.

[Liriena]

You're arguing against a made up opponent in the hopes that statistical probability will work in your favor and produce, somewhere out there, someone who actually believes what you just made up.

More accurately, I was being funny and then realized that someone somewhere might actually agree with what I said.
Good guess, though. You were almost slightly not wrong.

Oh, you were being funny? Who was the butt of the joke?

[Torrocca]

Depends - how many more statues and symbols revering Nazis and the oppression and tyranny they committed have to fall in Germany before everyone's satisfied by their destruction?

The answer's easy: all of them.

Ideally, the same should apply to Russia and the statues from the Soviets as well.

Sure.

Let's not say the Soviets are nearly as bad as, say, the Confederates or Nazis.

[The Parkus Empire]

So... people against religion, homosexuals, and people who view porn should leave?

That is exactly what I've always been told. If I don't like the homosexuality, if I don't like the blasphemy or mockery of a religion, if I don't like porn, I "don't have to watch it" and must leave. That's the standard they hold religious people to, but they will not apply that standard to themselves in the presence of Southern culture or the CSA. Leftist responses to religious people offended by something obscene, or hateful, etc. to them or their God, god, or gods, is to suck it up. After all, it's freedom of speech when they do it.

Ah, yes, those Uppity Negroes^TM asking to receive the same respect anyone else should be given is being weak and pathetic, especially in regards to when they wish to remove a symbol espousing hatred against them. Silly me.

Your words, not mine.

The blacks are not demanding respect: they are already equal before the law. Respect is earned, not demanded, and they are not earning it by rioting, looting, and torching cities while screeching anti-police bigotry and explicitly calling for policemen to be killed. Nor are they earning respect by spitting on the flag and the country, and making a grandstanding scene of themselves on national television.

It's a matter of vengeance: despite modern blacks never being systematically oppressed by the government, they are demanding the systematic erasure of anything that ever done their ancestors wrong. That's nothing but bad news for them: erasure of Jim Crown makes it impossible for us to show what it did to people, and starts the means to bring it back.

They have no right to remove something that they don't like because they don't like it.

I'm religious and removing the statue makes sense to me.

[Proctopeo]

More accurately, I was being funny and then realized that someone somewhere might actually agree with what I said.
Good guess, though. You were almost slightly not wrong.

Oh, you were being funny? Who was the butt of the joke?

Do jokes need a butt to be a joke? Regardless, I'll give you three guesses.

Just In Case™ we need to only build monuments in honor of people who could have never met a black person in their life, to avoid the possibility. So... statues of ancient Far Eastern historical figures for everybody? That would be... uh... Qin Shi Huang... maybe another person...

Musa Keita I of Mali, better known as Mansa Musa. Being an African emperor we can safely assume that he did not think that black people were lesser beings worth of lesser rights, and as one of the richest people to have ever lived he would be an excellent aspirational figure for Americans today. Work hard, pursue your dreams, and some day you may follow in the footsteps of the Lion of Mali and be so insanely rich that you will personally control the price of gold.

He also works.

Ideally, the same should apply to Russia and the statues from the Soviets as well.

Sure.

Let's not say the Soviets are nearly as bad as, say, the Confederates or Nazis.

I'd personally say they were worse than the Confederates and comparable to the Nazis, but that's just me. Let's just agree to disagree on who was worse than who and just say the Soviets were bad enough that their statues should get similar treatment if we're going that route.

[United States of Red Dawn]

Ideally, the same should apply to Russia and the statues from the Soviets as well.

Sure.

Let's not say the Soviets are nearly as bad as, say, the Confederates or Nazis.

This is the same go around and around always. Body counts are dragged out, the number of countries invaded, and people oppressed, and you will come right back to the same position.

I guess the Soviets meant well somehow.

[Liriena]

Depends - how many more statues and symbols revering Nazis and the oppression and tyranny they committed have to fall in Germany before everyone's satisfied by their destruction?

The answer's easy: all of them.

Ideally, the same should apply to Russia and the statues from the Soviets as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De-Stalinization#Destruction_of_monuments

[Torrocca]

Oh, you were being funny? Who was the butt of the joke?

Do jokes need a butt to be a joke? Regardless, I'll give you three guesses.

Musa Keita I of Mali, better known as Mansa Musa. Being an African emperor we can safely assume that he did not think that black people were lesser beings worth of lesser rights, and as one of the richest people to have ever lived he would be an excellent aspirational figure for Americans today. Work hard, pursue your dreams, and some day you may follow in the footsteps of the Lion of Mali and be so insanely rich that you will personally control the price of gold.

He also works.

Sure.

Let's not say the Soviets are nearly as bad as, say, the Confederates or Nazis.

I'd personally say they were worse than the Confederates and comparable to the Nazis, but that's just me. Let's just agree to disagree on who was worse than who and just say the Soviets were bad enough that their statues should get similar treatment if we're going that route.

Systematic genocide of millions and systematic slavery of millions is literally uncomparable to famines and gulags and all the deplorable shit the Soviets did. I don't disagree the Soviets were bad, but they're not comparable to the Nazis or Confederates.

Sure.

Let's not say the Soviets are nearly as bad as, say, the Confederates or Nazis.

This is the same go around and around always. Body counts are dragged out, the number of countries invaded, and people oppressed, and you will come right back to the same position.

I guess the Soviets meant well somehow.

They sure as fuck didn't plan out the systematic enslavement of millions (Confederacy and Nazi Germany) or the systematic genocide of millions.

Anyway, we're getting off-topic here.

Back to the point of: fuck Broward and his uppity statue.

[United States of Red Dawn]

Ukraine and Kulaks. that's all. Planned.

[Torrocca]

Ukraine and Kulaks. that's all. Planned.

It's heavily debated in academics. It's still utterly detestable. It's still utterly uncomparable to the fucking Nazis and Confederates.

Back to the topic.

[Valgora]

Ukraine and Kulaks. that's all. Planned.

Kulaks in the Ukraine were against collectivization. So they destroyed their crops, destroyed their stored food, and slaughtered their livestock.

And after the initial part, I believe Stalin may have just made it worse out of anger.

[Proctopeo]

Ideally, the same should apply to Russia and the statues from the Soviets as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De-Stalinization#Destruction_of_monuments

That's just one Soviet. Many statues of Lenin still stand, for instance. Many were destroyed when the Soviet Union collapsed, but not all of them.

Do jokes need a butt to be a joke? Regardless, I'll give you three guesses.


He also works.


I'd personally say they were worse than the Confederates and comparable to the Nazis, but that's just me. Let's just agree to disagree on who was worse than who and just say the Soviets were bad enough that their statues should get similar treatment if we're going that route.

Systematic genocide of millions and systematic slavery of millions is literally uncomparable to famines and gulags and all the deplorable shit the Soviets did. I don't disagree the Soviets were bad, but they're not comparable to the Nazis or Confederates.

Comrade, gulags were forced labor camps, which is definitely systematic slavery, and systematic slavery with numbers over a million as well. Some of the famines could be argued to be genocide, or akin to genocide, most notably the Holodomor.
It's not "literally [in]comparable", it's very comparable. Just perhaps slightly less extreme in some regards.

[The Emerald Legion]

People have been forcibly disappeared to appease black activists? Or are you just being melodramatic?

To answer your disingenuous question though... I don't know. Black activists are not a hivemind. These "they" you speak of probably won't collectively come to a unanimous consensus.

Also, it's just statues, and they aren't being desintegrated or put on a rocket to the Sun. Y'all seriously need thicker skins when it comes to statues.

People who have died are only present via their memory. By attacking their statues you attack that memory. In some cases the attacks go so far as to attempt to rewrite their character entirely. Suppose you did something amazing, worthy of recognition. And a statue was put up of you. Then someone decided you were actually a white supremacist. Told everyone you were a white supremacist, and then knocked your statue down.

Presuming you can somehow be aware of this fact despite your death, would you not be a tad bit miffed?

And is it really a disingenuous question. That's exactly the point that's trying to be made. Why should we comply with this set of demands with no guarantee of payoff?

And? Your self described side gets upset over TV Shows not having the exact progressive percentage of minorities. That's a bit less important than the deliberate and systematic disrespect of real, once living people, who contributed to the country in some way because their beliefs weren't in line with modern beliefs.

[Eisen Wolf Reich]

My favorite part of all this statue tearing down nonsense is the fact that no one even cared about the statues until now.

[Valgora]

My favorite part of all this statue tearing down nonsense is the fact that no one even cared about the statues until now.

People won't really think about it until they find out.
Most likely through those who are vocal about it.