Statue Removal Megathread: Is History In Danger or What?

[Proctopeo]

Right because I said anything about deporting minorities. If I remember correctly I said we should create a nutjob reservation, but on an American island in the pacific.

Oh, well, if you're only moving minorities to another part of your territory then that's obviously fine.

Which kind of minority are we talking here?

[Valgora]

Plenty of states have statues of governors.

Yeah, that sounds odd as fuck.

I mean, unless the dude or dudette did something extremely positive, I can't think of a reason why there'd be one.

This is from where I live, Bentonville, AR:

Placed in the center of Square Park, the 20 feet (6.1 m) granite statue of a Confederate soldier standing at parade rest was placed by the United Daughters of the Confederacy in 1908. A later plaque honors James Henderson Berry, a Confederate soldier with the 16th Arkansas Infantry Regiment who would later become the first Arkansas Governor from Benton County.

It's a statue of a Confederate soldier who became the first Arkansas Governor from Benton County.
And Bentonville is in that county.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

Political correctness is a cancer and we should not tolerate it. The man has a statue because he was the fasting GOVERNOR OF FLORIDA. Just because he was racist trash doesn't mean we have license to erase him from history.

It is absolutely disgusting that it has come to this.

[The Parkus Empire]

Political correctness is a cancer and we should not tolerate it. The man has a statue because he was the fasting GOVERNOR OF FLORIDA. Just because he was racist trash doesn't mean we have license to erase him from history.

It is absolutely disgusting that it has come to this.

Removing his statue is not "erasing him from history", it is just denying him public honor. His statue is being removed precisely because of history.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Put. It. In. A. Museum.


Done. Both sides are happy.

At least you tried.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY0mQUWO9_Q

Meh, some people will whine about everything.

Christopher Columbus is again a history relevant asshole, he belongs in a museum.

[Ifreann]

Oh, well, if you're only moving minorities to another part of your territory then that's obviously fine.

Which kind of minority are we talking here?

In addition to nutjobs I believe Thermodolia has expressed an interest in deporting communists and fascists. I would assume that Confederate apologists would find themselves on the boat to Undesirable Island sooner or later.

[Torrocca]

Political correctness is a cancer and we should not tolerate it. The man has a statue because he was the fasting GOVERNOR OF FLORIDA. Just because he was racist trash doesn't mean we have license to erase him from history.

It is absolutely disgusting that it has come to this.

Why the fuck is it, nowadays, anyone who ever says, "racism is bad," is being a politically correct shitdick? Never mind the fact that someone being politically correct is just trying to be respectful.

Broward was a racist shitdick. The people of Broward County want his statue down, so down with his statue.

[Liriena]

Political correctness is a cancer and we should not tolerate it. The man has a statue because he was the fasting GOVERNOR OF FLORIDA. Just because he was racist trash doesn't mean we have license to erase him from history.

It is absolutely disgusting that it has come to this.

First of all, winning an election does not automatically make you worthy of monuments glorifying you, specially if you went on to be a garbage person while in power. Carlos Menem won two presidential elections, but I don't think that makes him automatically worthy of a statue, given that he went on to be a garbage person while in power (and continues to be one as a senator).

Second of all, removing a statue does not erase the person it's dedicated to from history. After all, our historical record doesn't depend exclusively on postumous monuments. We have books, museums, artifacts, etc. Removing a statue of this man only means that, while his place in history is acknowledged, it doesn't entitle him to eternal commemoration.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

First of all, winning an election does not automatically make you worthy of monuments glorifying you, specially if you went on to be a garbage person while in power. Carlos Menem won two presidential elections, but I don't think that makes him automatically worthy of a statue, given that he went on to be a garbage person while in power (and continues to be one as a senator).

Second of all, removing a statue does not erase the person it's dedicated to from history. After all, our historical record doesn't depend exclusively on postumous monuments. We have books, museums, artifacts, etc. Removing a statue of this man only means that, while his place in history is acknowledged, it doesn't entitle him to eternal commemoration.

What evidence do you have that the governor whose statue is being removed sucked as a governor? The fact that his opinions of different races triggers people does not, and should not, factor in unless he actually oversaw the butchering of the things he hated or was he directly and intentionally involved in creating and pushing oppression.

Example: Andrew Jackson actually butchered Indians, so there's justification to get him off the twenty dollar bill. (He actually hated fiat currency and the concept of a dollar bill backed by nothing. IIRC, putting him on the twenty was means of spiting his opposition to central banking.)

[Proctopeo]

Which kind of minority are we talking here?

In addition to nutjobs I believe Thermodolia has expressed an interest in deporting communists and fascists. I would assume that Confederate apologists would find themselves on the boat to Undesirable Island sooner or later.

Eh, his heart is in the right place. It would be better to send them to some uninhabitable wasteland, like Siberia or California, but best to ignore them when they stay within the law, and react accordingly when they don't.

[Eisen Wolf Reich]

Why are people mad? Sure he was racist, but so were most people at that time. He was overall a great governor.

His accomplishments:

1. Draining the everglades to create fertile farmland for Florida. (then considered useless swamp, as people did not understand its ecology or relation to water table and habitat.)

2. He emphasized education and upgraded the state universities.

3. He introduced a bill to the legislature in 1905 directing the state to provide life insurance for its citizens, and setting up an Insurance Commission and a cabinet-level post to go along with the program.

4. He supported measures to create a state textbook commission, reform the state hospital system, and make the state's Railroad Commission permanent.

All in all in my eyes he was a pretty good governor of the state, and did his job well. The statue should stay.

EDIT: Please note that when I show the everglades draining, I am mentioning based on historical context, as the people of that time didn't realize the environmental damage they were causing, and thus saw it as nothing but gains.

[Liriena]

First of all, winning an election does not automatically make you worthy of monuments glorifying you, specially if you went on to be a garbage person while in power. Carlos Menem won two presidential elections, but I don't think that makes him automatically worthy of a statue, given that he went on to be a garbage person while in power (and continues to be one as a senator).

Second of all, removing a statue does not erase the person it's dedicated to from history. After all, our historical record doesn't depend exclusively on postumous monuments. We have books, museums, artifacts, etc. Removing a statue of this man only means that, while his place in history is acknowledged, it doesn't entitle him to eternal commemoration.

What evidence do you have that the governor whose statue is being removed sucked as a governor? The fact that his opinions of different races triggers people does not, and should not, factor in unless he actually oversaw the butchering of the things he hated or was he directly and intentionally involved in creating and pushing oppression.

I love how you don't hold him responsible for being racist scum, but you blame your contemporaries for rejecting his racism. Pretty cool.

It's not that racism is wrong and unworthy of veneration. Noticing racism and not wanting to glorify it is clearly wrong, and a sign of being overemotional and irrational.

Example: Andrew Jackson actually butchered Indians, so there's justification to get him off the twenty dollar bill. (He actually hated fiat currency and the concept of a dollar bill backed by nothing. IIRC, putting him on the twenty was means of spiting his opposition to central banking.)

Good point, Jackson should be removed from the bill.

[Proctopeo]

What evidence do you have that the governor whose statue is being removed sucked as a governor? The fact that his opinions of different races triggers people does not, and should not, factor in unless he actually oversaw the butchering of the things he hated or was he directly and intentionally involved in creating and pushing oppression.

I love how you don't hold him responsible for being racist scum, but you blame your contemporaries for rejecting his racism. Pretty cool.

It's not that racism is wrong and unworthy of veneration. Noticing racism and not wanting to glorify it is clearly wrong, and a sign of being overemotional and irrational.

Example: Andrew Jackson actually butchered Indians, so there's justification to get him off the twenty dollar bill. (He actually hated fiat currency and the concept of a dollar bill backed by nothing. IIRC, putting him on the twenty was means of spiting his opposition to central banking.)

Good point, Jackson should be removed from the bill.

Would it not be preferable to spite him eternally? :^)

[Ethel mermania]

I personally thought it went too far when statues started getting vandalized, but yes, this is too far.
In protest, we need to construct a massive bronze statue of this governor, a la the Colossus of Rhodes, but resistant to natural disasters. Why? Why not?

America already has a colossus. It's in New York.

Are you calling me fat?

[Torrocca]

1. Draining the everglades to create fertile farmland for Florida. (then considered useless swamp, as people did not understand its ecology or relation to water table and habitat.)

Doing something without realizing the consequences doesn't make it a good thing to do.

My alligator wife would've hanged him herself. Or himself. I dunno what gender the thing goes by, all I know is it took my ring finger.

[Eisen Wolf Reich]

1. Draining the everglades to create fertile farmland for Florida. (then considered useless swamp, as people did not understand its ecology or relation to water table and habitat.)

Doing something without realizing the consequences doesn't make it a good thing to do.

My alligator wife would've hanged him herself. Or himself. I dunno what gender the thing goes by, all I know is it took my ring finger.

Well it did benefit the people of Florida, so in the context of the job of a governor of a state, which is to make sure your people benefit, then he did a good job.

[Eisen Wolf Reich]

America already has a colossus. It's in New York.

Are you calling me fat?

Yes

[TURTLESHROOM II]

Why is it, nowadays, anyone who ever says, "racism is bad," is being a politically correct idiot? Never mind the fact that someone being politically correct is just trying to be respectful.

Tact is often the witholding of truth. We should not be forced to respect the feelings of people too weak to look at other opinions and dissenting concepts. I do not care about the opinions of strangers, and you should not either. If something offends them, they can leave.

As a Christian, that is what I have always been told in the face of Taking the Lord's Name In Vain and defacement of religious symbols. It's what I am told when I see homosexual crap on television, and it's what I am told when porn is being distributed.
Hold them to that same standard.

Broward was a racist. The people of Broward County want his statue down, so down with his statue.

Taking down something because it offends some weak, pathetic peoples' feelings is among the absolute worst possible consequences of democracy. There is a reason the Founding Fathers were so afraid of tryanny-by-majority.

Their only reaons to taking down these statues are because they hurt people's feelings. The govenrment- which oppresses and harms people more than any other institution on the modern earth -should not be bowing to the intellectual paucity of people who can't look at a statue without wetting their pants and coddling a therapy puppy in a Safe Space. This is the nature of the far-left in AmericaL they govern by feelings and rely on the fact that the squeaky wheel is always addressed by the driver, despite the other three wheels quietly going along.

Keep in mind that most Americans surveyed oppose this rampant iconoclasm, or at the very least, indicated that they do not care enough about the statues to want them removed.

Do you really think they will stop with statues? Someone showed a picture of iconoclasts demanding the destruction of monuments and artifacts of past oppression and colonization (etc.) in a museum.

These are the EXACT kind of people that burn books and paintings. One only need to look at examples in South Africa of iconoclasts that started with statues and ended with burning books and paintings. Erasing history is always wrong.

[Valgora]

Doing something without realizing the consequences doesn't make it a good thing to do.

My alligator wife would've hanged him herself. Or himself. I dunno what gender the thing goes by, all I know is it took my ring finger.

Well it did benefit the people of Florida, so in the context of the job of a governor of a state, which is to make sure your people benefit, then he did a good job.

But a damaged ecosystem also doesn't benefit the state.
I wouldn't count 1 as a valid reason.

The other reasons do seem valid to me.

[Proctopeo]

Well it did benefit the people of Florida, so in the context of the job of a governor of a state, which is to make sure your people benefit, then he did a good job.

But a damaged ecosystem also doesn't benefit the state.
I wouldn't count 1 as a valid reason.

The other reasons do seem valid to me.

I see it as valid in the sense that he intended to do something perceived as good for Florida, but unbeknownst to everyone would have had negative consequences.

[Eisen Wolf Reich]

Well it did benefit the people of Florida, so in the context of the job of a governor of a state, which is to make sure your people benefit, then he did a good job.

But a damaged ecosystem also doesn't benefit the state.
I wouldn't count 1 as a valid reason.

The other reasons do seem valid to me.

Meh, but still, he was a great governor, racist or not. And the statue should still stand.

[Eisen Wolf Reich]

But a damaged ecosystem also doesn't benefit the state.
I wouldn't count 1 as a valid reason.

The other reasons do seem valid to me.

I see it as valid in the sense that he intended to do something perceived as good for Florida, but unbeknownst to everyone would have had negative consequences.

Exactly, they had no idea, so in the perspective of that time period, it was a great idea. Though now in hind-sight its a terrible idea. I mean even Roosevelt backed his idea, and he was a conservationist.

[Ifreann]

Why are people mad? Sure he was racist, but so were most people at that time. He was overall a great governor.

His accomplishments:

1. Draining the everglades to create fertile farmland for Florida. (then considered useless swamp, as people did not understand its ecology or relation to water table and habitat.)

I don't know if it's much of an accomplishment to damage the environment for economic gain. That sounds pretty shit, actually.

[United States of Red Dawn]

Political correctness is a cancer and we should not tolerate it. The man has a statue because he was the fasting GOVERNOR OF FLORIDA. Just because he was racist trash doesn't mean we have license to erase him from history.

It is absolutely disgusting that it has come to this.

Removing his statue is not "erasing him from history", it is just denying him public honor. His statue is being removed precisely because of history.

Only one-sided history, of course.

[Valgora]

I see it as valid in the sense that he intended to do something perceived as good for Florida, but unbeknownst to everyone would have had negative consequences.

Exactly, they had no idea, so in the perspective of that time period, it was a great idea. Though now in hind-sight its a terrible idea. I mean even Roosevelt backed his idea, and he was a conservationist.

Well... hind-sight is 20/20.