Page 12 of 19

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:34 pm
by Keshiland
[quote="Benjabobaria";p="32646957"]:rofl:
You take a lot of stuff for granted don't you OP. I'll refrain from being too harsh, but you're really ungrateful for the many luxuries you enjoy if you are an American.
If you are not an America, I'm guessing you've never been to America.
We got some good stuff here in America, including but not limited to electricity, running clean water, FOOD, education, good technology, good healthcare, cars, roads, and lots of other stuff.

While the US may not be as good as Europe in many metrics...

Be real. We've got far better quality of life than most of the world.

Image
While our murder rate's higher than most of Europe, look at it compared to the countries you think we belong with.
[/quot

Guess what every other western nation has those things you mentioned oh and free healthcare, less gun violence, cheap college, and now some are giving universal incomes. Literally, only Americans that are nationalistic think America is great, we are trash. Oh, another thing you don't have to worry about in one of those really free west nations, bribery of your lawmakers, archaic voting systems, cops killing you when you are unarmed.

:rofl: Clean water :rofl:


But continue on how great we are. Btw been in canada for school and the ONLY problem is the amount of smokers.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:36 pm
by Adytus
I'm surprised this thread is not just a lot of yeses to the OP's question, and we have all moved on by now.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:38 pm
by Great Minarchistan
Keshiland wrote:Guess what every other western nation has those things you mentioned

Imagine my shock!
Keshiland wrote:oh and free healthcare

"free"*
Keshiland wrote:less gun violence

As if gun violence was actually relevant as a development criteria.
Keshiland wrote:cheap college

"cheap"*
Keshiland wrote:and now some are giving universal incomes.

Give me at least one country in Europe that's handing out UBI. One.
Keshiland wrote:we are trash.

Come to Brazil, you'll see what's trash. And we're nowhere as shit compared to some African nations.
Keshiland wrote:Oh, another thing you don't have to worry about in one of those really free west nations, bribery of your lawmakers, archaic voting systems, cops killing you when you are unarmed.

Yeah, but you need to worry about being arrested for """hate posts""" on Twitter and Facebook.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:44 pm
by Valgora
Great Minarchistan wrote:
Keshiland wrote:Guess what every other western nation has those things you mentioned

Imagine my shock!
Keshiland wrote:oh and free healthcare

"free"*
Keshiland wrote:less gun violence

As if gun violence was actually relevant as a development criteria.
Keshiland wrote:cheap college

"cheap"*
Keshiland wrote:and now some are giving universal incomes.

Give me at least one country in Europe that's handing out UBI. One.
Keshiland wrote:we are trash.

Come to Brazil, you'll see what's trash. And we're nowhere as shit compared to some African nations.
Keshiland wrote:Oh, another thing you don't have to worry about in one of those really free west nations, bribery of your lawmakers, archaic voting systems, cops killing you when you are unarmed.

Yeah, but you need to worry about being arrested for """hate posts""" on Twitter and Facebook.


In Keshiland's defense:
- You can easily spend more on a medical bill than you would on the taxes for universal healthcare.
- You can easily spend more money on school than you would the taxes for K-16 education.
- And there is that thing about lead in water.

However, those points are too small to not make the US a developed country.
And of course, a developed country will still have problems it needs to deal with.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:46 pm
by Keshiland
"cheap"*


My college is the best in the country with people in the industry teaching us and we only pay 30K for all 3 years.

Give me at least one country in Europe that's handing out UBI. One.


Finland

Come to Brazil, you'll see what's trash. And we're nowhere as shit compared to some African nations.


I'm comparing us to the developed 1st world democracies. How much you must think of America to defend it by pointing out nations that are not in the same category as us.

Yeah, but you need to worry about being arrested for """hate posts""" on Twitter and Facebook.


Maybe don't make hate threats against people and be racist, sexist, homophobic/transphobic, or Islamophobic, antisemitic, or xenophobic online and your good. Sounds like they punish hate maybe if we did that we could beat racism in america.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:48 pm
by Great Minarchistan
Valgora wrote:- You can easily spend more on a medical bill than you would on the taxes for universal healthcare.[/quotes]
Buy insurance. In fact, premium insurance in the UK costs less than NHS, worldwidely known as an excellent universal healthcare system.
Valgora wrote:- You can easily spend more money on school than you would the taxes for K-16 education.

Can you give me any source regarding that? Not that I disagree with you, but I'm particularly interested on the public education issue.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:56 pm
by Galloism
Keshiland wrote:be racist, sexist, homophobic/transphobic, or Islamophobic, antisemitic, or xenophobic online and your good. Sounds like they punish hate maybe if we did that we could beat racism in america.


See, here's what worries me about this - what is sexist?

I consider sexist to be preferential or detrimental treatment based on one's sex or gender. Egalitarian approaches to gender are the opposite of sexism. I endorse such egalitarian approaches.

Except, mine is a minority view. A very interesting study which used scripted action to ensure benevolent sexism, hostile sexism, and egalitarian approaches found that people who fail to be sexist against men and in favor of women are viewed as sexist. That's right - an egalitarian approach IS viewed as sexist in our society.

And you want to criminalize people who are viewed by society as sexist. That's a problem - given the only way not to be viewed as sexist is to be sexist.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:59 pm
by Great Minarchistan
Keshiland wrote:My college is the best in the country with people in the industry teaching us and we only pay 30K for all 3 years.

Yeah, and your college clearly represents the reality of all other Western European countries.
Keshiland wrote:Finland

They're handing out money to a few thousand unemployed, not 5.3 million. Try again.
Keshiland wrote:I'm comparing us to the developed 1st world democracies.

Don't call US trash then.
Keshiland wrote:How much you must think of America to defend it by pointing out nations that are not in the same category as us.

How much you must think of America to attack it comparing it to Western Europe.
Keshiland wrote:Maybe don't make hate threats against people and be racist, sexist, homophobic/transphobic, or Islamophobic, antisemitic, or xenophobic online and your good. Sounds like they punish hate maybe if we did that we could beat racism in america.

Yeah, and you still call them "free" countries. 1st Amendment all the way through!

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:03 pm
by Diopolis
Kind of. They're a developed country, but they tend to have the quality-of-life metrics of a developing country.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:06 pm
by Valgora
Great Minarchistan wrote:
Valgora wrote:- You can easily spend more on a medical bill than you would on the taxes for universal healthcare.[/quotes]
Buy insurance. In fact, premium insurance in the UK costs less than NHS, worldwidely known as an excellent universal healthcare system.

Can you give me any source regarding that? Not that I disagree with you, but I'm particularly interested on the public education issue.


Look at tuition costs.
"In 2016-17, the average cost of annual tuition in the United States ranged from $9,700 for public four-year institutions to $33,500 for private four-year institutions."
- Wikipedia

And there are student loans, which you can spend years paying off. And then there is student loans for graduate school such as med school.

With K-16 education, your taxes and others' taxes pay for everyone's education.
You don't worry about insane costs, your children don't have to worry about it either.

Now there are differences between countries.
Some pay for somethings while a different country will pay for something else.

I'm still dealing with good sources.
I did once talk to someone from Canada about something similar; however, it was about healthcare so he's not really a source for this.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:06 pm
by Diopolis
Great Minarchistan wrote:
Valgora wrote:- You can easily spend more on a medical bill than you would on the taxes for universal healthcare.[/quotes]
Buy insurance. In fact, premium insurance in the UK costs less than NHS, worldwidely known as an excellent universal healthcare system.

Can you give me any source regarding that? Not that I disagree with you, but I'm particularly interested on the public education issue.

Prep schools tend to cost about fifteen to twenty thousand dollars a year; public schools typically spend twelve and catholic schools about five.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:10 pm
by Great Minarchistan
Valgora wrote:And there are student loans, which you can spend years paying off. And then there is student loans for graduate school such as med school.

Student loans are easy to repay unless if you literally got a family and a baby at an early age or if you joined one of those gender studies/arts degree into a university like Yale, Stanford or Harvard.

Valgora wrote:With K-16 education, your taxes and others' taxes pay for everyone's education.

K-16 is which level? College?

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:11 pm
by Keshiland
Yeah, and your college clearly represents the reality of all other Western European countries.


Nope but 6 countries have free college
Norway.
Finland.
Sweden.
Germany.
Slovenia.
France.
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/080616/6-countries-virtually-free-college-tuition.asp

They're handing out money to a few thousand unemployed, not 5.3 million. Try again.


That's the whole point of it, you are guaranteed to make an income, employed or not. Try again.

Don't call US trash then.


But we are, we have
, refuse to move to clean energy, and constantly have oil spills oh and we don't clean up our roads, not once have I seen a dead animal on the roads in Canada.

How much you must think of America to attack it comparing it to Western Europe.


I am comparing us to them to show how not great we are despite what people think.

Yeah, and you still call them "free" countries. 1st Amendment all the way through!


We have a 90 for freedom Canada has 99. How can we be free if we don't even have direct elections?

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:13 pm
by Destructive Government Economic System
Ah, if there was only a poll for this thread....

There would only be "yes" responses to it.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:17 pm
by Kadur
Destructive Government Economic System wrote:Ah, if there was only a poll for this thread....

There would only be "yes" responses to it.


Oh yes...and that's why there isn't a poll.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:19 pm
by Valgora
Great Minarchistan wrote:
Valgora wrote:And there are student loans, which you can spend years paying off. And then there is student loans for graduate school such as med school.

Student loans are easy to repay unless if you literally got a family and a baby at an early age or if you joined one of those gender studies/arts degree into a university like Yale, Stanford or Harvard.

Valgora wrote:With K-16 education, your taxes and others' taxes pay for everyone's education.

K-16 is which level? College?


K-12 is kindergarten to 12th grade, high school.
K-16 is kindergarten through college.

I was just using K-16 because it's much easier.
Different countries have different grades for different levels, they do college/university differently.


Student loans can get really expensive depending on how long you are in school. And there's an interest rate.
I've heard stories of doctors who were 40 by the time they pay them off.

Why would someone get a gender studies degree? Why not a sociology degree or an anthropology degree?
But anyways, it doesn't matter what degree you have if you go to med school.
You can get a theater arts major and go to med school.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:20 pm
by Great Minarchistan
Keshiland wrote:Nope but 6 countries have free college
Norway.
Finland.
Sweden.
Germany.
Slovenia.
France.
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/080616/6-countries-virtually-free-college-tuition.asp


"Virtually free" college. Your own link shows that in order to stay away from tuitions you need to meet certain requirements on most of said countries.

Keshiland wrote:That's the whole point of it, you are guaranteed to make an income, employed or not. Try again.

And it's clearly universal when only 0.04% of the population gets the benefits. Try again.

Keshiland wrote:But we are, we have , refuse to move to clean energy, and constantly have oil spills oh and we don't clean up our roads, not once have I seen a dead animal on the roads in Canada.

Yeah, and that's enough to qualify US as trashy. Dump 3 trillion into infrastructure building and I suppose it'll jump to AAA+.

Keshiland wrote:We have a 90 for freedom Canada has 99.

Where the hell did you find that out?

Keshiland wrote:How can we be free if we don't even have direct elections?

Ah, nevermind. Typically mistaking political freedom with civil freedom.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:24 pm
by The Two Jerseys
Great Minarchistan wrote:
Keshiland wrote:Nope but 6 countries have free college
Norway.
Finland.
Sweden.
Germany.
Slovenia.
France.
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/080616/6-countries-virtually-free-college-tuition.asp


"Virtually free" college. Your own link shows that in order to stay away from tuitions you need to meet certain requirements on most of said countries.

Is "studying a real major" one of them?

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:29 pm
by Great Minarchistan
Valgora wrote:Student loans can get really expensive depending on how long you are in school. And there's an interest rate.
I've heard stories of doctors who were 40 by the time they pay them off.

You see, the average debt of a student when graduating stands at $35000 as of 2015 (most recent data I could find). At the same time, college grads were starting off with a median salary of $50k as of 2016 (2014 was $48k so I'll round up to $49k in 2015). Student loans typically have an APR of 5-7%. Place an average of 6%, discount the 2% inflation target and you get 4% real interest rate every year. Now, using that $49k figure, the "normal" graduated person can hand out 15% of its salary to debt service and it'll be repaid within 5 years and half.

Valgora wrote:Why would someone get a gender studies degree? Why not a sociology degree or an anthropology degree?


Just using an example.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:42 pm
by Keshiland
Destructive Government Economic System wrote:Ah, if there was only a poll for this thread....

There would only be "yes" responses to it.


I would give it a no. A country that lies about how free, or how great, or how humanitarian it is can never be developed. Example, NK lies and says they are democratic and are not, the US lies and says we are free yet we incarcerate millions for a medical plant. See we are basically a larger more populated North Korea.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:43 pm
by Stormwrath
Gun control and safety around guns define developed countries now?

Since when?

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:45 pm
by Farnhamia
Stormwrath wrote:Gun control and safety around guns define developed countries now?

Since when?

Since late last Wednesday evening.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:45 pm
by Great Minarchistan
Farnhamia wrote:
Stormwrath wrote:Gun control and safety around guns define developed countries now?

Since when?

Since late last Wednesday evening.


Sounds about right.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:50 pm
by Stormwrath
Keshiland wrote:
Destructive Government Economic System wrote:Ah, if there was only a poll for this thread....

There would only be "yes" responses to it.


I would give it a no. A country that lies about how free, or how great, or how humanitarian it is can never be developed. Example, NK lies and says they are democratic and are not, the US lies and says we are free yet we incarcerate millions for a medical plant. See we are basically a larger more populated North Korea.

Weird, I don't see any gulags strewn across the country or massive famines. :roll:

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:54 pm
by Keshiland
Stormwrath wrote:
Keshiland wrote:
I would give it a no. A country that lies about how free, or how great, or how humanitarian it is can never be developed. Example, NK lies and says they are democratic and are not, the US lies and says we are free yet we incarcerate millions for a medical plant. See we are basically a larger more populated North Korea.

Weird, I don't see any gulags strewn across the country or massive famines. :roll:


That's called American prisons which are literally slave labour camps since per the 13th incarcerated people can be used as slaves.