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Is the USA a Developed Country?

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Infected Mushroom
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Is the USA a Developed Country?

Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:56 pm

In light of the Las Vegas shooting and other school shootings, gun crimes, and just the general widespread ownership of guns in the hands of civilians...

I have to ask the theoretical question:

Is the USA a Developed Country?

I have a feeling that despite the official classification of the USA as such (based on things like the economy) it may actually not be the case.

The USA has really high crime rates and the gun control is so out of control that its quite unlike other Developed countries. Does it still make sense to call the US a Developed country when so many people legally (and illegally) own firearms? Isn't this something we would instead expect to be happening in a less developed country?

Can the USA still be a developed country when things like Las Vegas where hundreds of people are killed/injured because of guns happen quite frequently?

At what point does the USA stop being a Developed country?

Please discuss. What is your definition of the Developed country and in light of the gun problems in the USA, is the USA still a Developed country?

In my view, the USA is not a Developed country, it has been misclassified.

I would define a Developed country primarily on its safety and crime rate though the economy plays a role. In light of this, I feel the USA no longer fits the label unless it can get rid of the gun problem.

A Developed country does not have such widespread gun ownership in the hands of the population. A Developed country does not have gun problems and gun crimes on the scale of the USA. A Developed country does not have such widespread illegal ownership of firearms, such high frequencies of school shootings, gun crimes, and incidents like Las Vegas where hundreds are killed/injured. It is inconsistent for a Developed country to have massive numbers of people walking on the streets who are not police, carrying firearms who can turn on each other.

A Developed country looks like Japan, Norway, Germany etc where most of the people don't own guns and you don't have gun incidents where dozens to hundreds are killed/injured. The USA is in need of massive reforms.
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Salus Maior » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:59 pm

Yes. Gun ownership has nothing to do with whether a country is 'developed' or not.
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Postby Valgora » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:59 pm

In my opinion, gun ownership has nothing to do with whether or not a country is considered a developed country.
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Postby Fostoria » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:59 pm

Quite frankly, I think the bullshit you just spewed is absolutely ridiculous. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

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Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:02 pm

Fostoria wrote:Quite frankly, I think the bullshit you just spewed is absolutely ridiculous. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.


I never understood the point of that phrase...

People don't kill people, brains kill people? Cells kill people? Hydrogen kills people?

Just seems like a pointless reductionism.

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Postby MERIZoC » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:02 pm

A Developed country looks like Japan, Norway, Germany etc where most of the people don't own guns and you don't have gun incidents where dozens to hundreds are killed/injured. The USA is in need of massive reforms.

You're kidding me

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Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:03 pm

Valgora wrote:In my opinion, gun ownership has nothing to do with whether or not a country is considered a developed country.


what about the high incidence of gun crimes and high rates of murder/incarceration etc?

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Postby Crockerland » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:03 pm

Yes, obviously. Not Illinois though.

The attempt to demonize the US for respecting the basic human right to self-defense was very cringey.
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Postby Senkaku » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:03 pm

Yes. Your "feeling" that its classification is wrong is irrelevant, as is the rate of firearm ownership.
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Postby Wallenburg » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:04 pm

The US and Canada are both developed countries.
I want to improve.
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Postby Salus Maior » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:05 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Valgora wrote:In my opinion, gun ownership has nothing to do with whether or not a country is considered a developed country.


what about the high incidence of gun crimes and high rates of murder/incarceration etc?


That has nothing to do with "development", which seems to be something you don't understand.
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Postby Alndar » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:05 pm

So one problem and you use the farthest stretch of mental gymnastics I have ever seen to classify the US as a non developed country.

Well then,

I guess we can count the UK as a non developed country due to their massive terrorism problem, and mass acid attacks. I guess we can count count France out of the picture where there is large terrorist events causing many deaths. The list goes on. Bad argument.
Last edited by Alndar on Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Valgora » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:05 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Valgora wrote:In my opinion, gun ownership has nothing to do with whether or not a country is considered a developed country.


what about the high incidence of gun crimes and high rates of murder/incarceration etc?


Gun bans and other restrictions are treating the symptoms.
If you want to fix something, you treat the disease and the source.

"Understanding the origins of a problem are where we must begin. It might not give us a simple or convenient answer, but it will point us in the right direction. Gun violence doesn’t happen in a vacuum, where the only factor bringing about or preventing violence are guns themselves. Our world is not a world of floating independent issues, opinions and actions divorced from everything else. Larger systems, be they economic, political, ideological or cultural, have bearing on what happens in our world. If we pretend that this is not the case, that a utopia can be found by implementing the right reform, or preventing a legislative effort, we blind ourselves to the mechanisms behind everything. When we do the opposite, when we work to understand our world for its component parts, for its class nature, struggles and change, the solutions to problems come into view."

- "Are Guns the Problem" from the Red Phoenix
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:05 pm

Wallenburg wrote:The US and Canada are both developed countries.


Canada doesn't have gun problems and its crime rate is much much lower though. Also, I don't think there's been a "Las Vegas" in Canada.

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Postby Definitely not Helghan » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:06 pm

The gun laws are not an issue. Look at Chicago and California where they banned guns. It got to the point where they unbanned them but put heavy restrictions on them because gun violence just got worse. The arms trade and manufacturing is apart of our nations culture and always has been.

Now ending that part. Yes the US is developed sure there may be some parts that resemble third world countries like slums, Virginia, and the Deep South (lol I had to) but that doesn’t mean that the US as a whole is underdeveloped. We are a superpower we have the military, economy, and industry to remain that way.

Also look at other nations other types of crimes exist and are equal to the US’s gun crimes (which aren’t our primary crimes by the way) like the UK’s stabbings and other nations crimes as well. That is all I’ve got to say.

You cannot judge a nation based on its crime rate or Switzerland would be the most developed country in the world :-P
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:07 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
what about the high incidence of gun crimes and high rates of murder/incarceration etc?


That has nothing to do with "development", which seems to be something you don't understand.


well if you only focus on economy (ex GDP) then I would agree that the USA is developed.

But I think that the safety of a nation has a lot to do with it too and in that regard, the USA is too dangerous a place to live in to be considered Developed. It may be that the USA is in a third category (economically developed, but in other respects, not so).

You would agree that the US crime rate and gun ownership problem is unique among its Developed peers? I mean I think it deserves a new category. Its more in line with a country like China or Russia (economically powerful, but with lots of social problems and safety issues that need reform, high crime etc).

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Postby Senkaku » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:08 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:The US and Canada are both developed countries.


Canada doesn't have gun problems and its crime rate is much much lower though. Also, I don't think there's been a "Las Vegas" in Canada.

Gun crime rates are not relevant to a country's classification as developed.
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:08 pm

Alndar wrote:So one problem and you use the farthest stretch of mental gymnastics I have ever seen to classify the US as a non developed country.

Well then,

I guess we can count the UK as a non developed country due to their massive terrorism problem, and mass acid attacks. I guess we can count count France out of the picture where there is large terrorist events causing many deaths. The list goes on. Bad argument.


do they approach the level and the statistics of the USA though?

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Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:09 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
Canada doesn't have gun problems and its crime rate is much much lower though. Also, I don't think there's been a "Las Vegas" in Canada.

Gun crime rates are not relevant to a country's classification as developed.


shouldn't they be though?

if I were to create a fictional developed country in a work of fiction and then said "in the country there is very high gun crime rates" you'd probably (and correctly) respond by saying...

"Wait a minute, how can a country be developed and still have high gun crime rates?"

See the issue?

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Postby Valgora » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:10 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Senkaku wrote:Gun crime rates are not relevant to a country's classification as developed.


shouldn't they be though?

if I were to create a fictional developed country in a work of fiction and then said "in the country there is very high gun crime rates" you'd probably (and correctly) respond by saying...

"Wait a minute, how can a country be developed and still have high gun crime rates?"

See the issue?


What if a country has low gun crime rates, and extremely high gun ownership rates?
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Postby Wallenburg » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:10 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:The US and Canada are both developed countries.

Canada doesn't have gun problems and its crime rate is much much lower though. Also, I don't think there's been a "Las Vegas" in Canada.

Infected Mushroom wrote:I would say Canada is a developing country. Its over 100 times bigger than the UK and France yet it only has close to half of the population as EITHER one of them (35 million to 65 million).

This suggests MASSIVE under-utilisation of resources and land... this suggests that Canada is still on the developing curve and not on the Developed end. Even if you argue that most of Canada's land is frozen all year round and uninhabitable, Canada still has hundreds of times more habitable land than the UK.

There's no reason why BC or Alberta couldn't each house at least as many people as Ontario for instance.

Development is not finished, nowhere close.

Make up your mind.
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Postby Crockerland » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:11 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Valgora wrote:In my opinion, gun ownership has nothing to do with whether or not a country is considered a developed country.


what about the high incidence of gun crimes and high rates of murder/incarceration etc?

The countries with the lowest rates of incarceration are backwards failed states like the Central African Republic, the Congo (Republic of and Democratic Republic of), Mali, Niger, and Mauritania, incarceration rate obviously isn't an indicator of development.
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Postby Definitely not Helghan » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:11 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:The US and Canada are both developed countries.


Canada doesn't have gun problems and its crime rate is much much lower though. Also, I don't think there's been a "Las Vegas" in Canada.

Hehehe have you been to Montreal or any of the other major cities there? It might not look like it but if Canada was as urbanized as the US their crime rates would sky rocket. Also they never banned firearms they’re just really bloody expensive there because importation laws.
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Alndar
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Postby Alndar » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:11 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Alndar wrote:So one problem and you use the farthest stretch of mental gymnastics I have ever seen to classify the US as a non developed country.

Well then,

I guess we can count the UK as a non developed country due to their massive terrorism problem, and mass acid attacks. I guess we can count count France out of the picture where there is large terrorist events causing many deaths. The list goes on. Bad argument.


do they approach the level and the statistics of the USA though?


With the amount of rape gangs, acid attacks, deaths from stabbings, terror attacks, in the UK, it's hard to say they aren't. France also has it's quite large share of terrorism problems.

Not to mention literally every other single crime committed in countries.

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Postby Definitely not Helghan » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:13 pm

Valgora wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
shouldn't they be though?

if I were to create a fictional developed country in a work of fiction and then said "in the country there is very high gun crime rates" you'd probably (and correctly) respond by saying...

"Wait a minute, how can a country be developed and still have high gun crime rates?"

See the issue?


What if a country has low gun crime rates, and extremely high gun ownership rates?

I think that’s Sweden :-P
We are not Helghast.
We have one *shivers* human nation and an advanced alien nation known as the Tilk.
Tilk: An advanced Feudal type Monarchy made of seven distinct houses that tend to war with each other.
Parastass: A strong Imperium that fell into civil war after nearly 400 years of survival

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