Are upcoming sex robots going to normalize male aggression?

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Tbh it's an interesting philosophical question.[...]

It is.

[...]As a general rule, if you can build a being with a human's intelligence and consciousness and emotional needs out of clay or steel or silicon or whatever, you're in over your head.

At that point I would not be, how do you say, opposed, to killing them all — seems like a sure fire way of creating a new threat to humanity, whether you install some type of rules they have to follow or not (I'd consider the entire situation, should you add rules, to be similar to slavery).

[Senkaku]

Tbh it's an interesting philosophical question.[...]

It is.

[...]As a general rule, if you can build a being with a human's intelligence and consciousness and emotional needs out of clay or steel or silicon or whatever, you're in over your head.

At that point I would not be, how do you say, opposed, to killing them all — seems like a sure fire way of creating a new threat to humanity, whether you install some type of rules they have to follow or not (I'd consider the entire situation, should you add rules, to be similar to slavery).

Frankly, we also have no idea if it's even possible, and if we manage to make something like that, then either it will be starting off in labs and doing crazy cool science stuff to start with before getting mainstreamed as New People or whatever, or it'll kill us all off before we can blink. I find the latter scenario unlikely, and the former gives us time to sort ourselves out and deal with the implications.

[Bakery Hill]

Pretty much this. There's a massive difference.

When they can make computers with souls, you can say "I told you so," I guess? Until then, it's nbd, since they'll never meet our needs beyond sex, and once we get there- well fuck, they have souls and real emotions and shit, so what's wrong with actually then having a relationship with them?

Can you define what a soul is? Or even, to an extent, what a consciousness is? How do we know when robots have and/or will develop them? But again that's not even the point I've been making.

[Galloism]

When they can make computers with souls, you can say "I told you so," I guess? Until then, it's nbd, since they'll never meet our needs beyond sex, and once we get there- well fuck, they have souls and real emotions and shit, so what's wrong with actually then having a relationship with them?

Can you define what a soul is? Or even, to an extent, what a consciousness is? How do we know when robots have and/or will develop them? But again that's not even the point I've been making.

Chances are when the robot starts asking uncomfortable questions we didn't program it to ask, we have a problem.

[Oil exporting People]

"Effective" AI? Like AI that's indistinguishable from a person? And artificial eggs and artificial wombs? Sounds like you're describing a woman who has consciousness, a body, and rights, even if she wasn't made out of flesh and blood like the rest of us. :^)

And at the end of the day, the stuff they're working on? Still machines.

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[Senkaku]

When they can make computers with souls, you can say "I told you so," I guess? Until then, it's nbd, since they'll never meet our needs beyond sex, and once we get there- well fuck, they have souls and real emotions and shit, so what's wrong with actually then having a relationship with them?

Can you define what a soul is? Or even, to an extent, what a consciousness is? How do we know when robots have and/or will develop them?

Questions for another thread, I think, and ones that we may never answer anyways.

But again that's not even the point I've been making.

No, your point is if some super expensive sex toys are too realistic, then humans will suddenly lose all interest in interpersonal relationships and society will collapse. It's a dumb point, you should find another.

[Bakery Hill]

You lost your point there.

Did I? I don't see it.

You implied it wasn't a social issue because "Sex dolls cannot "perfectly mimic" a partner, because they aren't fucking people." Upon realising this in the entire point of sex dolls, and our technology capabilities are making perfect mimicry more and more possible, you retreated back to the "robots aren't really people" argument, which I addressed in the post before. As I said, this is not even the issue.

To reiterate: If a sex doll can mimic a person perfectly, it is entirely different from your own hands. In every external sense it's a person just without any of that pesky consent business, or any needs and desires of its own beyond a battery and some cleaning fluid. The social ramifications for that are massive if such things become popular on a large scale. But I know the current fashion is pride oneself on being a rabidly individualistic pro-technology libertine, that holds nothing sacred but your own hedonism, and certainly not archaic social constructs like "family". Maybe that explains the bizarre dancing around the point and willing ignorance on this issue.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Frankly, we also have no idea if it's even possible,[...]

Hopefully, in my opinion, it will never be possible.

[...]I find the latter scenario unlikely, and the former gives us time to sort ourselves out and deal with the implications.

Whatever the implications, you can be sure that I'll be trying to kill them all — it may not be rational, it may not even be fair, but I would refuse to walk, sit, speak, eat, drink or live with any of them.

[Galloism]

Frankly, we also have no idea if it's even possible,[...]

Hopefully, in my opinion, it will never be possible.

[...]I find the latter scenario unlikely, and the former gives us time to sort ourselves out and deal with the implications.

Whatever the implications, you can be sure that I'll be trying to kill them all — it may not be rational, it may not even be fair, but I would refuse to walk, sit, speak, eat, drink or live with any of them.

I will remind you what happened to the Quarians.

[Bakery Hill]

Can you define what a soul is? Or even, to an extent, what a consciousness is? How do we know when robots have and/or will develop them? But again that's not even the point I've been making.

Chances are when the robot starts asking uncomfortable questions we didn't program it to ask, we have a problem.

If it occurs like that we have the distinct possibility that we've been enslaving and raping sentient or semi-sentient beings. Which isn't great.

[Senkaku]

"Effective" AI? Like AI that's indistinguishable from a person? And artificial eggs and artificial wombs? Sounds like you're describing a woman who has consciousness, a body, and rights, even if she wasn't made out of flesh and blood like the rest of us. :^)

And at the end of the day, the stuff they're working on? Still machines.

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Allow me to explain something to you, since it appears you don't quite understand.

Humanity has yet to develop any AI systems that even remotely approach the intelligence of a human. They're not real. There isn't a sex doll company in the world that's developing such systems. The most advanced AI labs on Earth are years, decades, away from creating such a being.

"The stuff they're working on", the sex dolls that are the topic of this thread, do not have real wombs, cannot reproduce, do not have emotions or souls or processing power nearly as great as ours or any sort of personhood. They are simply machines.

When the AIs of the future, if they exist at all, meet the sex dolls of the present, then I'll be concerned about what Bakery fears.

[Galloism]

Chances are when the robot starts asking uncomfortable questions we didn't program it to ask, we have a problem.

If it occurs like that we have the distinct possibility that we've been enslaving and raping sentient or semi-sentient beings. Which isn't great.

Well, given the way computing works, it's not likely to be a sexbot that's the first one to attain consciousness.

It would be a supercomputer like Watson. Which is still enslaving, but how you go about raping something like Watson would be... a puzzling question.

[Minzerland II]

Hopefully, in my opinion, it will never be possible.



Whatever the implications, you can be sure that I'll be trying to kill them all — it may not be rational, it may not even be fair, but I would refuse to walk, sit, speak, eat, drink or live with any of them.

I will remind you what happened to the Quarians.

Deserved what they got for creating the Geth in the first place.

[Galloism]

The most advanced AI labs on Earth are years, decades, away from creating such a being.

And that's probably generous.

[Oil exporting People]

Humanity has yet to develop any AI systems that even remotely approach the intelligence of a human. They're not real. There isn't a sex doll company in the world that's developing such systems. The most advanced AI labs on Earth are years, decades, away from creating such a being.

They're working on such; by your logic, however, should we do nothing about Peak Oil or Global Warming?

"The stuff they're working on", the sex dolls that are the topic of this thread, do not have real wombs, cannot reproduce, do not have emotions or souls or processing power nearly as great as ours or any sort of personhood. They are simply machines.

See above.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

I will remind you what happened to the Quarians.

I've always hated Mass Effect, the Asari in particular, the way in which they breed makes me want to kill myself, if I remember what they do correctly, but refresh my memory on what happened to Quarians.

[Galloism]

I will remind you what happened to the Quarians.

I've always hated Mass Effect, the Asari in particular, the way in which they breed makes me want to kill myself, if I remember what they do correctly, but refresh my memory on what happened to Quarians.

A robot asked a question. Don't recall what the question was, but it demonstrated sapience.

The Quarians freaked, tried to extermine them all.

Instead, they were driven from their planet and wound up refugees in space.

[Senkaku]

Did I? I don't see it.

You implied it wasn't a social issue because "Sex dolls cannot "perfectly mimic" a partner, because they aren't fucking people." Upon realising this in the entire point of sex dolls, and our technology capabilities are making perfect mimicry more and more possible, you retreated back to the "robots aren't really people" argument, which I addressed in the post before. As I said, this is not even the issue.

Our technological mimicry is so far from replicating a human being, it's hard to describe. We can barely simulate a few seconds of the brain activity of a fucking mouse at a decelerated pace in the world's most powerful supercomputers. When they put AI systems in sex dolls that can actually pass a Turing test and at least do an excellent mime of a human's emotions and feelings, I might be concerned.

To reiterate: If a sex doll can mimic a person perfectly, it is entirely different from your own hands. In every external sense it's a person just without any of that pesky consent business, or any needs and desires of its own beyond a battery and some cleaning fluid. The social ramifications for that are massive if such things become popular on a large scale.

No sex doll in the foreseeable future will ever be capable of perfectly mimicking a person, no matter how detailed they get with the physical add-ons. Humans have needs for interpersonal relationships and love that go beyond sex. We also enjoy sex that has emotional connections and a partner on the other end, and hence robots will never replace people.

[Dooom35796821595]

I've always hated Mass Effect, the Asari in particular, the way in which they breed makes me want to kill myself, if I remember what they do correctly, but refresh my memory on what happened to Quarians.

A robot asked a question. Don't recall what the question was, but it demonstrated sapience.

The Quarians freaked, tried to extermine them all.

Instead, they were driven from their planet and wound up refugees in space.

It asked if it had a soul.

[Oil exporting People]

but how you go about raping something like Watson would be... a puzzling question.

This rabbit hole is expanding...

[Minzerland II]

I will remind you what happened to the Quarians.

I've always hated Mass Effect, the Asari in particular, the way in which they breed makes me want to kill myself, if I remember what they do correctly, but refresh my memory on what happened to Quarians.

They created the Geth and received their due for creating the monstrosities.

[Senkaku]

Humanity has yet to develop any AI systems that even remotely approach the intelligence of a human. They're not real. There isn't a sex doll company in the world that's developing such systems. The most advanced AI labs on Earth are years, decades, away from creating such a being.

They're working on such; by your logic, however, should we do nothing about Peak Oil or Global Warming?

Peak oil and global warming are two fairly imminent dangers that we know for a fact are real things. AI? We have literally no idea if it's even possible. Consciousness is still not understood at all, and it's impossible to say with certainty that we will ever be able to create a digital being with a soul or whatever the consciousness and emotions are that exist in humans.

[Bakery Hill]

Can you define what a soul is? Or even, to an extent, what a consciousness is? How do we know when robots have and/or will develop them?

Questions for another thread, I think, and ones that we may never answer anyways.

But again that's not even the point I've been making.

No, your point is if some super expensive sex toys are too realistic, then humans will suddenly lose all interest in interpersonal relationships and society will collapse. It's a dumb point, you should find another.

Someone who thinks of their own selfish and fleeting pleasures might make the point that a sex toy like this might be less expensive than a partner. It certainly will be for some people. So they'll be bought. A complex piece of machinery like a car was at first far more expensive than a horse. As sex robots like these gradually grow more common we risk normalising their use, there's no reason why they might not reach a mass market. We can expect interest in real relationships to decline, with perhaps a similar dynamic to what you're already seeing in Japan with our comparatively primitive technology. The only thing stopping humans from following this line is our own moral values as a society and as individuals. I can't see how it's a "dumb point".

[Dooom35796821595]

I will remind you what happened to the Quarians.

I've always hated Mass Effect, the Asari in particular, the way in which they breed makes me want to kill myself, if I remember what they do correctly, but refresh my memory on what happened to Quarians.

Oh, the Asari are creepy as hell, have a total Catuhulu vibe. It's even suggested in game that they use mind control to mate with other species...

[Senkaku]

If it occurs like that we have the distinct possibility that we've been enslaving and raping sentient or semi-sentient beings. Which isn't great.

Well, given the way computing works, it's not likely to be a sexbot that's the first one to attain consciousness.

It would be a supercomputer like Watson. Which is still enslaving, but how you go about raping something like Watson would be... a puzzling question.

Even if a self-aware robot is has some human use its orifices for sex, would it care? It doesn't have a nervous system or anything, and unlike us, it isn't trapped in its own skull- it can just copy itself somewhere else. A body is just a shell for an AI, there's no reason to think that the idea of a human getting some semen in them or whatever would bother them. It's impossible to speculate about something that we don't even know is possible to create and the form of which we don't know.