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What is a sandwich?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Which of the following are sandwiches? Check all that apply.

A BLT/PBJ/Grilled Cheese
169
28%
Sub
147
24%
Hot Dog
39
6%
Bagel
35
6%
Hamburger
108
18%
Dumpling
9
1%
Taco
18
3%
Ice cream bar
66
11%
Chicken wings
8
1%
Pop Tart
13
2%
 
Total votes : 612

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MERIZoC
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What is a sandwich?

Postby MERIZoC » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:36 pm

An important, yet unresolved debate. The sandwich is so ubiquitous, but what is it, really? Many of us, in the words of Potter Stewart, "know it when we see it", but how many of us are actually able to craft a working definition? We must first take a look at the history of sandwiches.

The Sandwich takes it's name from John Montagu, the 4th earl of Sandwich, a British nobleman and lord of the admiralty. Montagu was a prolific gambler, and according to some, he was one day occupied with gambling for so long, that he couldn't be bothered to get up to eat. He requested salted beef in between two slices of bread, so as to not dirty his hands, and seeing this, his gambling partners began calling the dish a "Sandwich".1 Of course, people had been eating various foods in between pieces of bread long before Montagu, but nevertheless, the name stuck.

In the modern day, the definition of a sandwich has been the issue of much contention. In 2006, a superior court judge ruled that a burrito is not a sandwich, citing the difference between two slices of bread and a tortilla wrap.2 But all is not consistent in the world of law. The New York State tax code considers burritos, as well as gyros, hamburgers, wraps, and other assorted items, to be sandwiches.3 And if you prefer to side with the Massachusetts judge in this case, consider that a sub made of one slice of bread, with a cut in it to allow for ingredients to be put in, would not be considered a sandwich under the "two slices of bread" rule.

So still, we go deeper. The USDA's Food Standards and Labeling Policy Book makes the distinction between open and closed-faced sandwiches:4

Product must contain at least 35 percent cooked meat and no more than 50 percent bread....
Typical —closed-faced“ sandwiches consisting of two slices of bread or the top and bottom sections of a sliced bun that enclose meat or poultry, are not amenable to the Federal meat and poultry inspection laws.

And of open:
Must contain at least 50 percent cooked meat. Sandwiches are amenable only if they are open faced sandwiches.


The policy book also describes burritos and fajitas as "sandwich-like products". So what's the problem here? Well, for one, this definition would exclude the classic "peanut butter and jelly," a product most would not wish to argue is not a sandwich. Furthermore, it seems overly specific. Should we on principle object to the labeling of a product that is 55% bread as a sandwich? The idea seems ludicrous and arbitrary.

Quite recently, Colorado has decided to take the debate to a whole new level. A 2016 Colorado Department of Revenue memo regarding rules and definitions states: "“Sandwiches” as used in articles 47 and 48 of Title 12, C.R.S. are defined as single serving items such as hamburgers, hot dogs, frozen pizzas, burritos, chicken wings, etc."5 That's right Coloradans, chicken wings are a sandwich. California, while not quite as radical, nonetheless considers hot dogs and hamburgers to be sandwiches.6

To escape the craziness of the US, let's go north for a bit. The Canadian Food and Drugs act has some interesting things to say about sandwiches. 7
(3) Despite paragraph (1)(b), the following items are not required to be shown on the label of a prepackaged product:
....
(d) components of ingredients of a sandwich, if the sandwich is made with bread.


The operative word there is "if". If a sandwich is made of bread, which of course, comes with the implication that a sandwich need not be made of bread. Could a sandwich perhaps be a scoop of ice cream in between two cookies? Sadly, the act does not elaborate on the matter.

Regardless of how far and wide you look, the results are inconclusive. If, for a moment, we return to our friend, the Earl of Sandwich, we find his descendant, also named John Montagu, now holds the title, as the 11th Earl of Sandwich. John, it would have it, co-founded a sandwich restaurant chain in 2006 called, yes, Earl of Sandwich.8 Could it be argued that they have some historical claim to defining the sandwich. A cursory glance at their menu shows they consider sandwiches and wraps to be distinct9, but if one takes a look at the menu of one of their Disney franchises, it is quite apparent that they have a burrito under the category of hot sandwiches.10

The debate looks to be quite unresolved. I consider myself opposed to a strict prescriptivist interpretation of sandwiches—If there are ingredients incased in a flour-based product, then that is good enough to stand as a sandwich. But what say you? And what of all the other important questions this debate brings to light? Is a hot dog a taco? Is a pop-tart ravioli? If a sandwich is put into a salad bowl and tossed, does it remain a sandwich, or is it now something else? I hope you can answer these questions.
Last edited by MERIZoC on Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Coconut Isle
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Postby Coconut Isle » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:57 pm

A sandwich should have a bread component unless if it is a dessert sandwich in which case sandwich icecreams are OK (it's in the name).

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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:05 pm

Coconut Isle wrote:A sandwich should have a bread component unless if it is a dessert sandwich in which case sandwich icecreams are OK (it's in the name).

Is it a necessity that a non-breaded sandwich have ice cream?

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Valgora
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Postby Valgora » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:06 pm

MERIZoC wrote:
Coconut Isle wrote:A sandwich should have a bread component unless if it is a dessert sandwich in which case sandwich icecreams are OK (it's in the name).

Is it a necessity that a non-breaded sandwich have ice cream?


Yes
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Rusozak
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Postby Rusozak » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:11 pm

To me, it has to be something between pieces of of bread or wedged into one. That said I never really consider hot dogs sandwiches. Maybe it's how it's stacked? Gotta be horizontal?
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Valgora
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Postby Valgora » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:12 pm

Rusozak wrote:To me, it has to be something between pieces of of bread or wedged into one. That said I never really consider hot dogs sandwiches. Maybe it's how it's stacked? Gotta be horizontal?


But what about ice cream sandwiches?
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Rusozak
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Postby Rusozak » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:16 pm

Valgora wrote:
Rusozak wrote:To me, it has to be something between pieces of of bread or wedged into one. That said I never really consider hot dogs sandwiches. Maybe it's how it's stacked? Gotta be horizontal?


But what about ice cream sandwiches?


Hmm, I guess the cookie/whatever the hell it's called part is vaguely bread-like?...

Scratch the bread part. Any kind of porous bread-like baked good like you may find at a bakery.
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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:17 pm

The BLT is the only true sandwich on the poll. It has both a traditionalism of ingredients and structure. When you open yourself up to the possibility of other structures and ingredients being sandwiches, you risk radical sandwich anarchy.
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The Blaatschapen
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:18 pm

An oreo is a sandwich.
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The Greater Ohio Valley
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Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:19 pm

Anything between two pieces/slices of a bread of some kind or something similar (including ice cream sandwiches).
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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:25 pm

Sandwiches are stuff between two slices of bread, in my opinion. Sub sandwiches are also passable, but only because everyone calls them sandwiches and I'm too goddamn lazy to care about it.

Hot dogs are hot dogs.

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The Foxes Swamp
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Postby The Foxes Swamp » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:28 pm

bread with food in it
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Soviet Canuckistan
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Postby Soviet Canuckistan » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:32 pm

The real question is does breading count as bread?? Are chicken fingers and fish sticks really sandwiches??
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Fendur
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Postby Fendur » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:34 pm

When you have one or more types of food contained between two slices of another food, that's a sandwich. It has to be vertically stacked however.
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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:35 pm


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The Greater Ohio Valley
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Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:37 pm


I'd say so, yes.
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Coconut Isle
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Postby Coconut Isle » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:38 pm

Soviet Canuckistan wrote:The real question is does breading count as bread?? Are chicken fingers and fish sticks really sandwiches??



No that's silly. Breadcrumbs are not bread - otherwise we would have to classify fried food as sandwiches when they are clearly not

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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:40 pm

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:

I'd say so, yes.

Then it would logically follow that a pie is also a sandwich, no?

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Soviet Canuckistan
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Postby Soviet Canuckistan » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:41 pm

Coconut Isle wrote:
Soviet Canuckistan wrote:The real question is does breading count as bread?? Are chicken fingers and fish sticks really sandwiches??



No that's silly. Breadcrumbs are not bread - otherwise we would have to classify fried food as sandwiches when they are clearly not

They were bread, do we have no respect for the dead?
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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:41 pm

MERIZoC wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:I'd say so, yes.

Then it would logically follow that a pie is also a sandwich, no?


I was about to say that looks more like a pie, heh.

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Coconut Isle
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Postby Coconut Isle » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:47 pm

MERIZoC wrote:
Coconut Isle wrote:A sandwich should have a bread component unless if it is a dessert sandwich in which case sandwich icecreams are OK (it's in the name).

Is it a necessity that a non-breaded sandwich have ice cream?


I can think of sandwich biscuits, so no.

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The Greater Ohio Valley
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Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:47 pm

MERIZoC wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:I'd say so, yes.

Then it would logically follow that a pie is also a sandwich, no?


No.
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The Blaatschapen
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:49 pm

Can we have pineapple in sandwich?

Or am i confusing two things here :p
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The Greater Ohio Valley
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Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:51 pm

The Blaatschapen wrote:Can we have pineapple in sandwich?

Or am i confusing two things here :p


You can have whatever you want in a sandwich. Pineapple, meat, cheese, cookies, waffles, whatever tickles your pickle.
Occasionally the Neo-American States
"Choke on the ashes of your hate."
- Free speech
- Weapons rights
- Democracy
- LGBTQ+ rights
- Racial equality
- Gender/sexual equality
- Voting rights
- Universal healthcare
- Workers rights
- Drug decriminalization
- Cannabis legalization
- Due process
- Rehabilitative justice
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- Choice
- Environmental protections
- Secularism
ANTI
- Fascism/Nazism
- Conservatism
- Nationalism
- Authoritarianism/Totalitarianism
- Traditionalism
- Ethnic/racial supremacy
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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:54 pm

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:
MERIZoC wrote:Then it would logically follow that a pie is also a sandwich, no?


No.

why

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