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Morgan Freeman: “Join the Good Fight”

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Shofercia
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Founded: Feb 22, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Shofercia » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:25 pm

Sanctissima wrote:
Shofercia wrote:
I never said that Russia is a Superpower. I think there's quite a bit of room between Superpower and average country. I think that Russia is strong. You don't have to be a Superpower to be strong. The reason I like PPP, is because it's real. Nominal is crap in terms of purchasing power. Can I afford to live comfortably - that's the first question, and PPP takes that into account much better than nominal GDP. Let's say you have two countries. In one country, you make $100,000, pay $50,000 in taxes, $20,000 for Healthcare, $18,000 for rent, $7,000 for food, and so on... you're left with $5,000.

In another country, (and again, these are made up to prove a point,) you make $20,000, but you pay no taxes, Healthcare is free, rent is $3,000 and food is $2,000. You're left with $15,000. In the case of the second country, you are much better off. PPP takes that into account. Nominal doesn't. The sanctions have actually benefited the Putin Administration, by providing a perfect scapegoat for Putin's banking fuck up that few noticed, unlike Lukashenko's 2009 banking fuck up, that everyone noticed. Although Putin and Lukashenko did it once in the time span of roughly two decades, Poroshenko probably does it on a monthly basis.

Nominal GDP equates Russia with Spain. PPP places Russia between Germany and Brazil. I think the latter is more accurate. Is Russia even in the top 5? Of course not. But if Russia can beat Japan in the next two decades, Russia can make the top 5. Granted, struggling to make the top 5 ain't a Superpower Goal, but it ain't crap either.


Hey now, you're preaching to the choir when it comes to Poroshenko. I recognize he's a corrupt incompetent ass. :p

On the topic of economics, my problem with PPP is that it doesn't really take into account the effectiveness of how money is being used. Granted, nominal GDP just outright ignores that factor altogether, but when you have a country like Russia where government services are typically, well, complete shit, I do question just how accurate PPP can be in such circumstances. Sure, on paper there's a lot of money being spent on healthcare and other services, but is this reflected in the actual quality of the service being provided? No, not in the slightest.

All Russia really has left is its military strength, economic dominance over nearby nations, and sheer massiveness in terms of size. None of which are as great as they used to be, and the latter has proven to be a double-edged sword on more than one occasion.

Will Russia implode and become an irrelevant shit country comparable to neighbouring Belarus? No, but neither will it become a renewed and revitalized major player on the world stage in the coming decades. Economically it relies too much on oil and natural gas exports, and isn't particularly diversified. Politically its unity is measured in Putin's lifespan. And militarily, while it is large, it's incapable of competing with NATO, and has to pussyfoot around its real objectives in much smaller nations like Georgia and Ukraine just to avoid shaking the proverbial boat too much. 50 years ago, zero fucks would have been given about sending tank columns all the way to Kiev. Nowadays, Russia can't even annex Crimea without being anally raped by sanctions.


Government services in Russia have improved quite a bit. Most of Putin's support comes from the improvement in the Living Standards, which have gone up quite substantially. If he didn't, at the very least triple the Living Standards, how, just how else would he get 60%+ support? The Crimean Annexation spiked it, sure, but he was doing quite well before that. How would such Demographic Jump have been possible, if it wasn't for reforms in Government Services?

By the year 2000, Russia was losing almost a million people per year due to Natural Change. 958,532 if you want the exact number. By 2015, said number was a net positive of 32,000. Sure, in 2016 it was negative again, but the change was slight, and a net positive is expected for 2017. Although the TFR remains low, beneficial reforms have been introduced and successfully implemented. And if you take into account population growth as a result of immigration of Ukrainians into Russia, who are there to stay, you're looking at a massive gain. That's excluding Crimea. So while there's still quite a bit of work to be done, the improvement in Government Services have been good enough to upgrade them from "shit" to "adequate".

Regarding size - don't discount that factor. Another program that is being implemented is giving Russian Citizens land in the Far East, based on the US Homestead Act. It's working. For Homesteaders, their TFR is about 0.3 more than the average. That's above 2.1, or replacement level fertility. Furthermore, in Russia - you just have to speak Russian to belong. You need not look Russian. Of course your Russian should be damn good, rather than "all yo base r belong to us" Russian. It's a miracle how many Ukrainians suddenly remembered that they can speak fluent Russian.

Belarus isn't imploding. Their population actually grew. Granted, it grew by 120 people a year, but it grew. And it's growing. Yes, that's due mostly to a positive net migration rate, thanks to Ukraine, but at least it's not shrinking, naturally, by much. Economically speaking:

Image


Not as good as they should be doing, but not anywhere near implosion levels. Regarding Russian Unity - it's not measured by Putin's Lifespan. There's quite a bit of power tied to United Russia, CPRF, and even LDPR. Furthermore, there are various lobbying organizations that support the current path. Unlike the disarray in some countries, in Russia quite a few people agree on what the future should be, and how to get there, so the debate is mostly about compromisable issues. And judging by the Syrian Intervention, Russia is still a major player.

As far as sanctions are concerned - they generated quite a bit of laughter in Russia, but haven't made a dent in Russia's Foreign Policy.
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Old Varegia
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Founded: Jul 20, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Old Varegia » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:25 pm

Fauxia wrote:
Old Varegia wrote:"attacked us"?
"over here"?

I don't recall any bombs or guns going off, and Trump being a complete Russian puppet is entirely unrealistic. Perhaps he has somewhat of a bias, but puppetry is pretty much impossible.

Considering the fact that most celebrities know next to nothing about real politics, I'm not inclined to listen to Morgan, although I've always been a fan.
To be fair, Freeman has seemed sensible before, and this seems sensible to a degree

Eh, just seems to me like he hopped on the "Trump bad, people say Trump friends with Russia, Russia bad" bandwagon.

In my opinion, there's nothing left to be done about Russia. Russia hasn't done anything since the huge crisis that ended up in the world placing sanctions against them and significantly screwing up their economy yet again.

Seriously, what is the point in making the Russian people even poorer? It's not like that's ever stopped a "big bad guy" before.
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Fauxia
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Postby Fauxia » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:28 pm

Old Varegia wrote:
Fauxia wrote:To be fair, Freeman has seemed sensible before, and this seems sensible to a degree

Eh, just seems to me like he hopped on the "Trump bad, people say Trump friends with Russia, Russia bad" bandwagon.

In my opinion, there's nothing left to be done about Russia. Russia hasn't done anything since the huge crisis that ended up in the world placing sanctions against them and significantly screwing up their economy yet again.

Seriously, what is the point in making the Russian people even poorer? It's not like that's ever stopped a "big bad guy" before.
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Old Varegia
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Postby Old Varegia » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:32 pm

Fauxia wrote:
Old Varegia wrote:Eh, just seems to me like he hopped on the "Trump bad, people say Trump friends with Russia, Russia bad" bandwagon.

In my opinion, there's nothing left to be done about Russia. Russia hasn't done anything since the huge crisis that ended up in the world placing sanctions against them and significantly screwing up their economy yet again.

Seriously, what is the point in making the Russian people even poorer? It's not like that's ever stopped a "big bad guy" before.
I can't trust you on this issue. Your nation is led by a guy named Pushkin

Yo, this nation doesn't reflect my real feels.
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A nation with a long and violent history, once divided, now united, but barely. Control of the country is contested by three main individuals- the Tsar, the President, and the Supreme Commander.


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Gauthier
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Postby Gauthier » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:35 pm

I wonder how many people who constantly cited Morgan Freeman in demanding BLM STFU are now recoiling from him over this?
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Old Varegia
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Postby Old Varegia » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:37 pm

Gauthier wrote:I wonder how many people who constantly cited Morgan Freeman in demanding BLM STFU are now recoiling from him over this?

A person cannot always be right.
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Shofercia
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Founded: Feb 22, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Shofercia » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:03 pm

Gauthier wrote:I wonder how many people who constantly cited Morgan Freeman in demanding BLM STFU are now recoiling from him over this?


Wondering is good. It's not bad to wonder. I, for one, wonder how many people constantly cited him for anything, aside from drug use.
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Hirota
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Postby Hirota » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:11 pm

Gauthier wrote:I wonder how many people who constantly cited Morgan Freeman in demanding BLM STFU are now recoiling from him over this?

Does it have to be a binary?
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The Empire of Pretantia
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Founded: Oct 18, 2012
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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:46 pm

Gauthier wrote:I wonder how many people who constantly cited Morgan Freeman in demanding BLM STFU are now recoiling from him over this?

I'm not.
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The Empire of Pretantia
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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:21 am

Shofercia wrote:
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:Not when the latter is the end result of the former.

Not with me and my boys in Poland it isn't.

I did not think they would take over Europe. I just don't think they're not trying.


Poland's rather easy to conquer, (you guys were conquered by Austria,) but we're not talking about that. The difference you're missing is one between power projection/sphere of influence extension, and takeover.

The difference being?

Putin is a populist. And taking over Europe ain't popular in Russia, contrary to what your media says.

He's still trying regardless.
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Polvatsiya
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Postby Polvatsiya » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:26 am

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Shofercia wrote:
Poland's rather easy to conquer, (you guys were conquered by Austria,) but we're not talking about that. The difference you're missing is one between power projection/sphere of influence extension, and takeover.

The difference being?

Putin is a populist. And taking over Europe ain't popular in Russia, contrary to what your media says.

He's still trying regardless.


No he isn't.

You're living in a fantasy world.
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United States of Red Dawn
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Postby United States of Red Dawn » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:08 am

I trust present day Russia more than I do Democrats and a variety of other people on the Left in the U.S.
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Shofercia
Post Czar
 
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Founded: Feb 22, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Shofercia » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:23 am

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Shofercia wrote:
Poland's rather easy to conquer, (you guys were conquered by Austria,) but we're not talking about that. The difference you're missing is one between power projection/sphere of influence extension, and takeover.

The difference being?

Putin is a populist. And taking over Europe ain't popular in Russia, contrary to what your media says.

He's still trying regardless.


You seriously have no idea about the difference between power projection and takeover? Power projection is when you try to influence a country in a specific category, or set of categories. Takeover is when you attempt to run the country. Fiji can project power into New Zealand about the issues of tourism and foreign policy. Fiji cannot takeover New Zealand, nor has ever attempted to do that.
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The Empire of Pretantia
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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:28 am

Shofercia wrote:
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:The difference being?

He's still trying regardless.


You seriously have no idea about the difference between power projection and takeover? Power projection is when you try to influence a country in a specific category, or set of categories. Takeover is when you attempt to run the country. Fiji can project power into New Zealand about the issues of tourism and foreign policy. Fiji cannot takeover New Zealand, nor has ever attempted to do that.

New Zealand is not forever in the shadow of Fiji, which is sowing unrest within it's borders to bend it to its will.
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Postby Shofercia » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:33 am

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Shofercia wrote:
You seriously have no idea about the difference between power projection and takeover? Power projection is when you try to influence a country in a specific category, or set of categories. Takeover is when you attempt to run the country. Fiji can project power into New Zealand about the issues of tourism and foreign policy. Fiji cannot takeover New Zealand, nor has ever attempted to do that.

New Zealand is not forever in the shadow of Fiji, which is sowing unrest within it's borders to bend it to its will.


I explained to you the difference that you were unable to grasp. You are welcome.
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The Empire of Pretantia
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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:35 am

Shofercia wrote:
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:New Zealand is not forever in the shadow of Fiji, which is sowing unrest within it's borders to bend it to its will.


I explained to you the difference that you were unable to grasp. You are welcome.

If your nation is slaved to the will of another, you are taken over.
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Postby Shofercia » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:38 am

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Shofercia wrote:
I explained to you the difference that you were unable to grasp. You are welcome.

If your nation is slaved to the will of another, you are taken over.


Since you refuse to learn the easy way, here comes the hard way, starting with your very own quote.

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:As soon as Russia stops trying to take over Europe.


Is Germany forever living in the shadow of Russia? Is France? Is Italy? Is Spain? Are Germans, French, Italians, and Spanish the slaves of Russia? Is that your argument Pretantia? It sure seems like it.
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The Empire of Pretantia
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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:57 am

Shofercia wrote:
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:If your nation is slaved to the will of another, you are taken over.


Since you refuse to learn the easy way, here comes the hard way, starting with your very own quote.

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:As soon as Russia stops trying to take over Europe.


Is Germany forever living in the shadow of Russia? Is France? Is Italy? Is Spain? Are Germans, French, Italians, and Spanish the slaves of Russia? Is that your argument Pretantia? It sure seems like it.

Key word: trying. That word is very important.

So, yeah, you fucking stumbled and fell flat on your face.
Last edited by The Empire of Pretantia on Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:59 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby Parti Ouvrier » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:15 am

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Shofercia wrote:
Since you refuse to learn the easy way, here comes the hard way, starting with your very own quote.



Is Germany forever living in the shadow of Russia? Is France? Is Italy? Is Spain? Are Germans, French, Italians, and Spanish the slaves of Russia? Is that your argument Pretantia? It sure seems like it.

Key word: trying. That word is very important.

So, yeah, you fucking stumbled and fell flat on your face.

Would you be prepared to substantiate your comment about Russia 'trying' to take over Europe?
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The Empire of Pretantia
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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:17 am

Parti Ouvrier wrote:
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:Key word: trying. That word is very important.

So, yeah, you fucking stumbled and fell flat on your face.

Would you be prepared to substantiate your comment about Russia 'trying' to take over Europe?

Ukraine fucking Civil War.
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Shofercia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Shofercia » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:02 pm

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Shofercia wrote:
Since you refuse to learn the easy way, here comes the hard way, starting with your very own quote.



Is Germany forever living in the shadow of Russia? Is France? Is Italy? Is Spain? Are Germans, French, Italians, and Spanish the slaves of Russia? Is that your argument Pretantia? It sure seems like it.

Key word: trying. That word is very important.

So, yeah, you fucking stumbled and fell flat on your face.


You have failed to grasp basic terminology. And you seem to be quite confused as to who fell on his face. Using that same "logic" one can claim that Trump is trying to take over Russia's Nuclear Arsenal. And when confronted with the actual facts, the actual reality, one can just calim "key word: trying, so facts don't matter, I got ya, hahaha" - how utterly pathetic.


The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Parti Ouvrier wrote:Would you be prepared to substantiate your comment about Russia 'trying' to take over Europe?

Ukraine fucking Civil War.


You do realize that there are more countries in Europe than just Ukraine, right? Had you said "Russia is trying to take over Ukraine" - NSG wouldn't have quite laughed as hard, as we did when you made that claim that Russia is trying to take over Europe. Let me guess - you have two classified sources telling you that - Pinky and the Brain...
Last edited by Shofercia on Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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