Gun Control

[Grinning Dragon]

Owning firearms is of no great harm to society, these tools themselves do not endanger society or peoples lives.

Except for the fact that the US. has the highest incidence of mass shootings in the world? Keep telling yourself that.

There is a balance of rights, and when a right (whether it is a negative or a positive right) is infringed upon, we have laws and the courts to determine the extent of said infringements, this is part of your "intelligent governance"

Yes, but, as my entire point has been this whole time and you all seem to be missing on - I don't even take an issue with rights but rather with the rhetoric that the constitution itself is sufficient.

Owning something is NOT a danger until said tool/object is put to use in a dangerous manner. Households all throughout America contain many items that could be used dangerously, the fact of the matter an object in of itself is not dangerous until it is interacted with in an unsafe manner. Conflating ownership to mass shootings is disingenuous and dishonest not to mention correlation does not imply causation.

As for the Constitutionality of arms, don't know what else to say, but it is the highest law of the land and this should be sufficient enough as far as I am concerned.

[Euslavia]

But are rights 'natural?' Saecularly speaking (let's not entangle religion into this for discussion's sake), rights are only a license that those in power (control over the means of production) give to those who don't have that kind of control. Basically, rights depend only on those who rule. Nothing is otherwise 'self-evident.' If self-evidence were real, then political outcomes would be independantly identical to those of America. But they are not.

'Rights' are simply an attempt to dogmatise otherwise temporary and relatively arbitrary license. Remember no human being is truly autonomous (the typicalrationale behind complete freedom). Each human being is born of another (even if accounting laboratory circumstances). Thus, we are from our very conception, we are dependent on others. Our reason, substituing for normal animal instinct, is what gives us a sense of autonomy, but it's only an illusion. Without collective co-operation, there would be no human civiliation. Completely autonomous humans would survive and sometimes reproduce at best, but would hardly advance. Collective, directed effort gave us such physical marvels like the ancient pyramids, despite the relative technical backwardness of the time when they were constructrd.

Look at the colony-dwelling insects. Ants and bees would rule the world if they could bypass instinct (inability to weigh competing outcomes). We humans have that option and rather than allowing individualist fragmentation, we could collectively advance, based on collective organisation led by rational rather than instinctive direction.

Pseudophilosophy, on the other hand, can go fuck itself.

Crass ad hominem is an easy defence, I will admit that.

[Sovaal]

Because you can't understand that people have natural human rights? Besides philosophy can go fuck itself

But are rights 'natural?'

I would say yes.

Saecularly speaking (let's not entangle religion into this for discussion's sake), rights are only a license that those in power (control over the means of production) give to those who don't have that kind of control. Basically, rights depend only on those who rule.

Wrong. You only have to see the political dissidents in authoritarian countries to see that this is not true. Those in power do not give us the ability to think, to form our own opinions, to speak out. That comes from within us.

Nothing is otherwise 'self-evident.' If self-evidence were real, then political outcomes would be independantly identical to those of America. But they are not.

Again, not true. Humans are individuals. Our experiences in life are nobody else's save our own, as with what we gleam from it. As such every person's political outlook is uniquely their own (well so much that they actually exercise the piece of hardware between their ears).

'Rights' are simply an attempt to dogmatise otherwise temporary and relatively arbitrary license. Remember no human being is truly autonomous (the typicalrationale behind complete freedom).

No, rather that each human is an equal of the others around him, and as such that those in power hold no special powers over others in regard to their right. They don't give others rights, they merely choose whether to be dicks about it an oppress those rights or not.

Each human being is born of another (even if accounting laboratory circumstances). Thus, we are from our very conception, we are dependent on others.

Doesn't mean that others are in ultimate control of our natural processes.

Our reason, substituing for normal animal instinct, is what gives us a sense of autonomy, but it's only an illusion. Without collective co-operation, there would be no human civiliation.

And without individual reasoning, their would be no human civilization either.

Completely autonomous humans would survive and sometimes reproduce at best, but would hardly advance. Collective, directed effort gave us such physical marvels like the ancient pyramids, despite the relative technical backwardness of the time when they were constructrd.

That doesn't detract from the fact that every human is an individual who is ultimatey the only only in control of his or her own actions.

Look at the colony-dwelling insects. Ants and bees would rule the world if they could bypass instinct (inability to weigh competing outcomes).

They already rule the world. For every human there's some estimated 400 million insects. But to build a civilisation? Not enough brain power there.

We humans have that option and rather than allowing individualist fragmentation, we could collectively advance, based on collective organisation led by rational rather than instinctive direction.

Our entire advancement has been at the hands of individuals. Collectives of individuals, yes, but individuals nonetheless. And authoritarian police states like you're advocating for don't seems like good progress to me, or the majority of western civilization.

[Germanic Templars]

Pseudophilosophy, on the other hand, can go fuck itself.

Crass ad hominem is an easy defence, I will admit that.

Hardly crass considering the weak argument you gave there.

[The New California Republic]

Pseudophilosophy, on the other hand, can go fuck itself.

Crass ad hominem is an easy defence, I will admit that.

Ad hominem would be an attack on you. I labeled the argument you gave as pseudophilosophy. It was an attack on the unnecessary verbose wordage you used that reeked of pretentiousness, it wasn't an attack against you personally.

[Big Jim P]

While I do not agree that the 2nd is obsolete under modern conditions, the answer for those who do is not to try to work around it or hope SCOTUS changes their collective mind, but to amend the constitution itself. When it was decided that having the State legislatures appoint Senators, an amendment went in to force direct elections. When it was decided that a progressive income tax was needed, amendment time.

There is no part of the Constitution not amendable if enough people want it badly enough.

That's the gun-grabber problem: not enough support to amend the constitution and repeal the Second Amendment. This is why they go about banning guns piecemeal or by attempting to do an end-run around the constitution with frivolous lawsuits designed to put gun manufacturers out of business.

[Republic of Keshiland]

Finally back in Canada. Anyway enjoy the Carnage you refuse to stop.

[Sovaal]

Finally back in Canada. Anyway enjoy the Carnage you refuse to stop.

Guns are legal in Canada. If you want a gun free paradise you might want to go to East Asia, your authoritarian views may better received.

[Wysten]

Finally back in Canada. Anyway enjoy the Carnage you refuse to stop.

Guns are legal in Canada. If you want a gun free paradise you might want to go to East Asia, your authoritarian views may better received.

[Republic of Keshiland]

Finally back in Canada. Anyway enjoy the Carnage you refuse to stop.

Guns are legal in Canada. If you want a gun free paradise you might want to go to East Asia, your authoritarian views may better received.

Yeah but they have to have a reason and prove they are not dangerous before getting one. Also no murderous slave patrol in Canada

[Wysten]

Guns are legal in Canada. If you want a gun free paradise you might want to go to East Asia, your authoritarian views may better received.

Yeah but they have to have a reason and prove they are not dangerous before getting one. Also no murderous slave patrol in Canada

What the hell is our murderous slave patrol?

[Grinning Dragon]

Finally back in Canada. Anyway enjoy the Carnage you refuse to stop.

Yeeeeeeeeessssssss, "carnage" it does a body good, it fuels the very gates of Kaeresh, and soon it will be at full power to unleash my army of kid soul sucking army of forgotten misfit weapons of war zombies, and my world domination will be complete. MUAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

[Republic of Keshiland]

Yeah but they have to have a reason and prove they are not dangerous before getting one. Also no murderous slave patrol in Canada

What the hell is our murderous slave patrol?

The police force that was born from slave patrol just look same color uniform same shape bagde just police officer instead of slave patrol

[Grinning Dragon]

What the hell is our murderous slave patrol?

The police force that was born from slave patrol just look same color uniform same shape badge just police officer instead of slave patrol

[Wysten]

What the hell is our murderous slave patrol?

The police force that was born from slave patrol just look same color uniform same shape bagde just police officer instead of slave patrol

You do realize that in 2015 9 unarmed black men were shot total.

[Len Hyet]

What the hell is our murderous slave patrol?

The police force that was born from slave patrol just look same color uniform same shape bagde just police officer instead of slave patrol

Was bullshit the first time you said it
Is bullshit now
Conclusion: you're full of bullshit

[Republic of Keshiland]

The police force that was born from slave patrol just look same color uniform same shape bagde just police officer instead of slave patrol

You do realize that in 2015 9 unarmed black men were shot total.

0 unarmed people were shot in all of EU AU and CA

[The New California Republic]

What the hell is our murderous slave patrol?

The police force that was born from slave patrol just look same color uniform same shape bagde just police officer instead of slave patrol

Are you still saying that apples and oranges are the same thing? We disproved your "theory" (if it can even be called that) several weeks ago.

[Telconi]

You do realize that in 2015 9 unarmed black men were shot total.

0 unarmed people were shot in all of EU AU and CA

That's just simply not true...

[Albrenia]

Uhm... the whole slave patrol thing's a bit of a stretch.

I can only speak for Australia, but over here we don't have nearly as many unarmed people being shot by police - but it is still higher than 0.

[Sovaal]

Guns are legal in Canada. If you want a gun free paradise you might want to go to East Asia, your authoritarian views may better received.

Yeah but they have to have a reason

Source? Also, many suburbanite Canadians own guns, including AR 15s, for target and competition shooting.

and prove they are not dangerous before getting one.

If you have a criminal record here in the US you can't get one either, but eh, kinda being pedantic here.

Also no murderous slave patrol in Canada

First off, unrelated.
Second, Canada had slaves.
Third, there is no longer any slave patrol in the US, nor has there been one in over a hundred and fifty years.
Fourth, then why would you want cops to be the only ones with guns?

[Republic of Keshiland]

Uhm... the whole slave patrol thing's a bit of a stretch.

I can only speak for Australia, but over here we don't have nearly as many unarmed people being shot by police - but it is still higher than 0.

Oh I guess I just didn't see the news still American style policing is not normal

[Sovaal]

What the hell is our murderous slave patrol?

The police force that was born from slave patrol just look same color uniform same shape bagde just police officer instead of slave patrol

No police force around today has any direct, if any, connection to old slave patrols. Just because you claim they look similar doesn't mean that they're the same.
In fact, the oldest police force in the US is the Boston PD.

[Wysten]

Uhm... the whole slave patrol thing's a bit of a stretch.

I can only speak for Australia, but over here we don't have nearly as many unarmed people being shot by police - but it is still higher than 0.

Oh I guess I just didn't see the news still American style policing is not normal

Yes because we all know the news will totally give us all the facts like Micheal Brown the Soft Caring giant.

[Len Hyet]

Uhm... the whole slave patrol thing's a bit of a stretch.

I can only speak for Australia, but over here we don't have nearly as many unarmed people being shot by police - but it is still higher than 0.

Oh I guess I just didn't see the news still American style policing is not normal

He says, offering no evidence other than "well duh"