Gun Control

[The New California Republic]

And you think prohibition is the answer? You think fueling organized crime is the answer? Prohibition does not work. It. Does. Not. Work.

Prohibition was in part enabled by the presence of cash currency. The US government still (miraculously, given most Americans' attitudes) retains the right to coin money. The Treasury could do away with all bank notes and coins and distribute plastic, digitally tracked 'cash cards' to each citizen upon reaching the federal age of majority. These cash cards would be like a government-issued debit card (minus ATM usage). In that scenario, where there is no physical cash, the federal and state government could track every purchase and weed out any possible bootlegging operation. The technology exists, it just needs to be put to good use.

Changing the entire monetary system to an authoritarian "track everything" Orwellian nightmare is a ridiculous way of making prohibition work. And even then, there is no guarantee that it would work, even with those drastic measures.

But the point is moot, as this is a gun control thread, not an alcohol control thread...

[Telconi]

So your only way of getting ahead is by blatant lying? I think you were taught the wrong life lessons when you were growing up...


Waste of time. If a law is not getting used, then it is benign, not malicious.


Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. There are a ton of reasons for a person to refuse a search, guilt only being one of them.


Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. There are a ton of reasons for a person to refuse to testify against themselves, guilt only being one of them.


And you think prohibition is the answer? You think fueling organized crime is the answer? Prohibition does not work. It. Does. Not. Work.

Prohibition was in part enabled by the presence of cash currency. The US government still (miraculously, given most Americans' attitudes) retains the right to coin money. The Treasury could do away with all bank notes and coins and distribute plastic, digitally tracked 'cash cards' to each citizen upon reaching the federal age of majority. These cash cards would be like a government-issued debit card (minus ATM usage). In that scenario, where there is no physical cash, the federal and state government could track every purchase and weed out any possible bootlegging operation. The technology exists, it just needs to be put to good use.

*Proposes terrible contemptuous use*

"Just needs to be put to a good use..."

[Sovaal]

So your only way of getting ahead is by blatant lying? I think you were taught the wrong life lessons when you were growing up...


Waste of time. If a law is not getting used, then it is benign, not malicious.


Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. There are a ton of reasons for a person to refuse a search, guilt only being one of them.


Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. There are a ton of reasons for a person to refuse to testify against themselves, guilt only being one of them.


And you think prohibition is the answer? You think fueling organized crime is the answer? Prohibition does not work. It. Does. Not. Work.

Prohibition was in part enabled by the presence of cash currency.

Which still exits, in large numbers, and with great buying power.

The US government still (miraculously, given most Americans' attitudes) retains the right to coin money.

Miraculous how?

The Treasury could do away with all bank notes and coins and distribute plastic, digitally tracked 'cash cards' to each citizen upon reaching the federal age of majority.

Except they won't, because it's a stupid idea. Much of the world's money is digital, yes, but there is still need of physical money. And even if it was all digital, that doesn't stop the purchasing of illegal goods with it.

These cash cards would be like a government-issued debit card (minus ATM usage).

And what base unit would we use?

In that scenario, where there is no physical cash, the federal and state government could track every purchase and weed out any possible bootlegging operation.

Except I doubt they will be able too. Private transactions are just to common for them to be banned. And that's not even getting into black market currency like Bitcoin. The criminals are ahead of the government.

The technology exists, it just needs to be put to good use.

Again, like everything else you've said, idiotic and improbable at best, unworkable and impossible at worst.

[Euslavia]

Prohibition was in part enabled by the presence of cash currency. The US government still (miraculously, given most Americans' attitudes) retains the right to coin money. The Treasury could do away with all bank notes and coins and distribute plastic, digitally tracked 'cash cards' to each citizen upon reaching the federal age of majority. These cash cards would be like a government-issued debit card (minus ATM usage). In that scenario, where there is no physical cash, the federal and state government could track every purchase and weed out any possible bootlegging operation. The technology exists, it just needs to be put to good use.

That's not a good use of the technology.
Plus, what makes you think people would use a privacy-invading government money card for illegal purchases?

The cards would replace cash entirely. That is within the jurisdiction and power of the Treasury. While crypto-currencies might be used, new laws could be passed to monitor their use as well. Then you only have bank and credit cards, which already leave a purchase trail that can be followed. Once currency is digitised, nothing prevents it from being tracked. That throws a huge wrench into any bootlegging operations that used cash not only for the purchase of ingredients and equippment, but also to bribe the police into looking the other way.

[The New California Republic]

That's not a good use of the technology.
Plus, what makes you think people would use a privacy-invading government money card for illegal purchases?

The cards would replace cash entirely. That is within the jurisdiction and power of the Treasury. While crypto-currencies might be used, new laws could be passed to monitor their use as well. Then you only have bank and credit cards, which already leave a purchase trail that can be followed. Once currency is digitised, nothing prevents it from being tracked. That throws a huge wrench into any bootlegging operations that used cash not only for the purchase of ingredients and equippment, but also to bribe the police into looking the other way.

It also throws a huge wrench into freedom.

Also, I will say it again: this is not an alcohol control thread, this is a gun control thread.

[Valgora]

The cards would replace cash entirely. That is within the jurisdiction and power of the Treasury. While crypto-currencies might be used, new laws could be passed to monitor their use as well. Then you only have bank and credit cards, which already leave a purchase trail that can be followed. Once currency is digitised, nothing prevents it from being tracked. That throws a huge wrench into any bootlegging operations that used cash not only for the purchase of ingredients and equippment, but also to bribe the police into looking the other way.

It also throws a huge wrench into freedom.

Also, I will say it again: this is not an alcohol control thread, this is a gun control thread.

Alcohol and guns go well with each other though.

[Euslavia]

The cards would replace cash entirely. That is within the jurisdiction and power of the Treasury. While crypto-currencies might be used, new laws could be passed to monitor their use as well. Then you only have bank and credit cards, which already leave a purchase trail that can be followed. Once currency is digitised, nothing prevents it from being tracked. That throws a huge wrench into any bootlegging operations that used cash not only for the purchase of ingredients and equippment, but also to bribe the police into looking the other way.

It also throws a huge wrench into freedom.

Also, I will say it again: this is not an alcohol control thread, this is a gun control thread.

But the tracking implications are similar. Nowadays, even with current controls in place, criminals are still able to purchase 'off-market' weapons through the use of cash. If you apply the same principle used in controlling bootlegging, you can do similarly with weapons control. Without untraceable cash, criminal operations would face several impediments. Of course, they will try to stay one step ahead, but that gives all the more reason for the state to stay two steps ahead.

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

It also throws a huge wrench into freedom.

Also, I will say it again: this is not an alcohol control thread, this is a gun control thread.

But the tracking implications are similar. Nowadays, even with current controls in place, criminals are still able to purchase 'off-market' weapons through the use of cash. If you apply the same principle used in controlling bootlegging, you can do similarly with weapons control. Without untraceable cash, criminal operations would face several impediments. Of course, they will try to stay one step ahead, but that gives all the more reason for the state to stay two steps ahead.

So... How would you prevent hacking? Like, what's to stop someone from just transferring a bunch of money from one account to another without the consent of the owner?

[Valgora]

It also throws a huge wrench into freedom.

Also, I will say it again: this is not an alcohol control thread, this is a gun control thread.

But the tracking implications are similar. Nowadays, even with current controls in place, criminals are still able to purchase 'off-market' weapons through the use of cash. If you apply the same principle used in controlling bootlegging, you can do similarly with weapons control. Without untraceable cash, criminal operations would face several impediments. Of course, they will try to stay one step ahead, but that gives all the more reason for the state to stay two steps ahead.

But doing this could be an invasion of privacy.

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

It also throws a huge wrench into freedom.

Also, I will say it again: this is not an alcohol control thread, this is a gun control thread.

But the tracking implications are similar. Nowadays, even with current controls in place, criminals are still able to purchase 'off-market' weapons through the use of cash. If you apply the same principle used in controlling bootlegging, you can do similarly with weapons control. Without untraceable cash, criminal operations would face several impediments. Of course, they will try to stay one step ahead, but that gives all the more reason for the state to stay two steps ahead.

And I do believe there is an alternate to currency called "bartering". What's to stop gangs from trading a kilo of cocaine for a crate of firearms? They already do this quite often.

[The New California Republic]

But the tracking implications are similar. Nowadays, even with current controls in place, criminals are still able to purchase 'off-market' weapons through the use of cash. If you apply the same principle used in controlling bootlegging, you can do similarly with weapons control. Without untraceable cash, criminal operations would face several impediments. Of course, they will try to stay one step ahead, but that gives all the more reason for the state to stay two steps ahead.

So... How would you prevent hacking? Like, what's to stop someone from just transferring a bunch of money from one account to another without the consent of the owner?

Euslavia envisions a fantastical, flawless, and unhackable system that is capable of tracking millions of transactions across the United States and internationally every second in real time. Complete nonsense in other words. With the sheer volume of code required for such a system, the chances of bugs in the code increases dramatically. Someone would find an exploitable flaw in it within a day. “There is a crack in everything, that’s how the light gets in.”

[Euslavia]

But the tracking implications are similar. Nowadays, even with current controls in place, criminals are still able to purchase 'off-market' weapons through the use of cash. If you apply the same principle used in controlling bootlegging, you can do similarly with weapons control. Without untraceable cash, criminal operations would face several impediments. Of course, they will try to stay one step ahead, but that gives all the more reason for the state to stay two steps ahead.

And I do believe there is an alternate to currency called "bartering". What's to stop gangs from trading a kilo of cocaine for a crate of firearms? They already do this quite often.

They do of course, but cash always factors in somewhere along the lines of transfer. Either the substances are then compensated for in cash, or the weapons themselves are sold. The possible transactional combinations are endless, but cash always directly factors into such transactions, if not immediately, then eventually.

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

And I do believe there is an alternate to currency called "bartering". What's to stop gangs from trading a kilo of cocaine for a crate of firearms? They already do this quite often.

They do of course, but cash always factors in somewhere along the lines of transfer. Either the substances are then compensated for in cash, or the weapons themselves are sold. The possible transactional combinations are endless, but cash always directly factors into such transactions, if not immediately, then eventually.

I mean, they can trade that cocaine for guns and then sell the guns overseas. Is the United States going to be forcing this system on other countries?

[The New California Republic]

And I do believe there is an alternate to currency called "bartering". What's to stop gangs from trading a kilo of cocaine for a crate of firearms? They already do this quite often.

They do of course, but cash always factors in somewhere along the lines of transfer. Either the substances are then compensated for in cash, or the weapons themselves are sold. The possible transactional combinations are endless, but cash always directly factors into such transactions, if not immediately, then eventually.

Cash wouldn't factor into the transaction if the system you proposed was ever used. Criminals would just resort to the barter economy, they would never use the monetary system when they know that it is being used to keep tabs on them. Your plan falls at the first hurdle, billions of dollars wasted on an elaborate digital cash tracking system that doesn't work.

[Euslavia]

So... How would you prevent hacking? Like, what's to stop someone from just transferring a bunch of money from one account to another without the consent of the owner?

Euslavia envisions a fantastical, flawless, and unhackable system that is capable of tracking millions of transactions across the United States and internationally every second in real time. Complete nonsense in other words. With the sheer volume of code required for such a system, the chances of bugs in the code increases dramatically. Someone would find an exploitable flaw in it within a day. “There is a crack in everything, that’s how the light gets in.”

Then, the state has the duty to maintain the best cyber security technology, with periodic updates to ensure that the same programmes don't become too familiar to criminals. Also, there could be a law passed where all private computers are installed with certain features that block hacking attempts from these platforms. Cyber security has too long been looked at as a private matter. As for databases and mining, America has already been working on the great Prism project. Such projects should be prioritised, further developed, and expanded into other realms, such as financial transactions.

[Sovaal]

It also throws a huge wrench into freedom.

Also, I will say it again: this is not an alcohol control thread, this is a gun control thread.

But the tracking implications are similar. Nowadays, even with current controls in place, criminals are still able to purchase 'off-market' weapons through the use of cash. If you apply the same principle used in controlling bootlegging, you can do similarly with weapons control. Without untraceable cash, criminal operations would face several impediments. Of course, they will try to stay one step ahead, but that gives all the more reason for the state to stay two steps ahead.

What's to stop gangs using other forms of currency, such as that of foriegn countries, or gold, or Bitcoins and other deep digital currencies? And I also see no further need for a digital currency to be employed by the US gov. And what about personal transactions, where people just "gift" each other money?

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

They do of course, but cash always factors in somewhere along the lines of transfer. Either the substances are then compensated for in cash, or the weapons themselves are sold. The possible transactional combinations are endless, but cash always directly factors into such transactions, if not immediately, then eventually.

Cash wouldn't factor into the transaction if the system you proposed was ever used. Criminals would just resort to the barter economy, they would never use the monetary system when they know that it is being used to keep tabs on them. Your plan falls at the first hurdle, billions of dollars wasted on an elaborate digital cash tracking system that doesn't work.

This'd probably create an upper class which uses this digital system and then a barter economy or one that uses an alternate currency. Maybe we'll see Bloods buying guns and weed with Monopoly money one day.

[Euslavia]

They do of course, but cash always factors in somewhere along the lines of transfer. Either the substances are then compensated for in cash, or the weapons themselves are sold. The possible transactional combinations are endless, but cash always directly factors into such transactions, if not immediately, then eventually.

I mean, they can trade that cocaine for guns and then sell the guns overseas. Is the United States going to be forcing this system on other countries?

Who knows? It might. Maybe there will a future treaty that has provisions for synchronised currency digitisation.

[Sovaal]

Euslavia envisions a fantastical, flawless, and unhackable system that is capable of tracking millions of transactions across the United States and internationally every second in real time. Complete nonsense in other words. With the sheer volume of code required for such a system, the chances of bugs in the code increases dramatically. Someone would find an exploitable flaw in it within a day. “There is a crack in everything, that’s how the light gets in.”

Then, the state has the duty to maintain the best cyber security technology, with periodic updates to ensure that the same programmes don't become too familiar to criminals. Also, there could be a law passed where all private computers are installed with certain features that block hacking attempts from these platforms. Cyber security has too long been looked at as a private matter. As for databases and mining, America has already been working on the great Prism project. Such projects should be prioritised, further developed, and expanded into other realms, such as financial transactions.

Thing is, a government able to do that and constantly stay ahead of the criminals is one that has infringed on it's other duty of protecting the freedoms of the American people.

[Grinning Dragon]

Euslavia envisions a fantastical, flawless, and unhackable system that is capable of tracking millions of transactions across the United States and internationally every second in real time. Complete nonsense in other words. With the sheer volume of code required for such a system, the chances of bugs in the code increases dramatically. Someone would find an exploitable flaw in it within a day. “There is a crack in everything, that’s how the light gets in.”

Then, the state has the duty to maintain the best cyber security technology, with periodic updates to ensure that the same programmes don't become too familiar to criminals. Also, there could be a law passed where all private computers are installed with certain features that block hacking attempts from these platforms. Cyber security has too long been looked at as a private matter. As for databases and mining, America has already been working on the great Prism project. Such projects should be prioritised, further developed, and expanded into other realms, such as financial transactions.

Yeah, such features could never be circumvented, nope never.

[Sovaal]

I mean, they can trade that cocaine for guns and then sell the guns overseas. Is the United States going to be forcing this system on other countries?

Who knows? It might. Maybe there will a future treaty that has provisions for synchronised currency digitisation.

And what's stopping under ground black market currencies from forming?

[Euslavia]

But the tracking implications are similar. Nowadays, even with current controls in place, criminals are still able to purchase 'off-market' weapons through the use of cash. If you apply the same principle used in controlling bootlegging, you can do similarly with weapons control. Without untraceable cash, criminal operations would face several impediments. Of course, they will try to stay one step ahead, but that gives all the more reason for the state to stay two steps ahead.

What's to stop gangs using other forms of currency, such as that of foriegn countries, or gold, or Bitcoins and other deep digital currencies? And I also see no further need for a digital currency to be employed by the US gov. And what about personal transactions, where people just "gift" each other money?

Such gifts could take place, but the state would know that they take place. All the more to add to the Prism database.

[Sovaal]

Then, the state has the duty to maintain the best cyber security technology, with periodic updates to ensure that the same programmes don't become too familiar to criminals. Also, there could be a law passed where all private computers are installed with certain features that block hacking attempts from these platforms. Cyber security has too long been looked at as a private matter. As for databases and mining, America has already been working on the great Prism project. Such projects should be prioritised, further developed, and expanded into other realms, such as financial transactions.

Yeah, such features could never be circumvented, nope never.

"Reality, what's that?" Euslavia, 2017.

[Sovaal]

What's to stop gangs using other forms of currency, such as that of foriegn countries, or gold, or Bitcoins and other deep digital currencies? And I also see no further need for a digital currency to be employed by the US gov. And what about personal transactions, where people just "gift" each other money?

Such gifts could take place, but the state would know that they take place. All the more to add to the Prism database.

So your solution to take care of a problem is to replace it with a far more dangerous problem?

[United Islamic Commonwealth]

Euslavia envisions a fantastical, flawless, and unhackable system that is capable of tracking millions of transactions across the United States and internationally every second in real time. Complete nonsense in other words. With the sheer volume of code required for such a system, the chances of bugs in the code increases dramatically. Someone would find an exploitable flaw in it within a day. “There is a crack in everything, that’s how the light gets in.”

Then, the state has the duty to maintain the best cyber security technology, with periodic updates to ensure that the same programmes don't become too familiar to criminals. Also, there could be a law passed where all private computers are installed with certain features that block hacking attempts from these platforms. Cyber security has too long been looked at as a private matter. As for databases and mining, America has already been working on the great Prism project. Such projects should be prioritised, further developed, and expanded into other realms, such as financial transactions.

"The best cyber security technology". Mate, for every defense, there is a better offense. For every Great Wall, there is a Jebe. There are like 7 countries capable of waging effective cyber warfare. The PRC, Russia, and Iran are among those.