NATION

PASSWORD

Gun Control

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Am I right?

Yeah, mostly, seems agreeable.
223
22%
Dunno/Not sure/Not American and I think that matters
68
7%
Nah, you're crazy. Guns should be more restricted.
204
20%
Nah, you're crazy. Guns should be less restricted.
436
44%
JC Christ CM come back when the meds wear off
71
7%
 
Total votes : 1002

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33657
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:01 pm

Republic of Keshiland wrote:
Valgora wrote:
I can make a bomb, that can cause a mass killing.
I can run into a large group of people with a truck, that can cause a fuckin' mass killing.

Your ideas ignore what causes violent crime.
You ignore the FACT that guns DON'T cause violent crime.
You ignore the FACT that since guns don't cause violent crime, that something else is the cause.


Poverty breeds violent crime. If you all would stop voting for people who literally only care about guns and not people we could fix the issue and get people off the streets into school working and healthy.


I'd love to vote for people working to end poverty. Unfortunately they all seem to be gun grabbing assholes.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Republic of Keshiland
Minister
 
Posts: 2164
Founded: Oct 21, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Republic of Keshiland » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:02 pm

Valgora wrote:
Galloism wrote:I'm pretty "blue" all things considered, but anyone with half a brain can see the half baked ideas we've seen vomited into this thread are fucking stupid, and I'm with the gun nuts on this issue.

Poverty is the biggest driver of violent crime. Why don't we address that?


Because discussing gun control blinds us from finding real solutions.

So really... it's the fault of people like Keshi who keep us from finding real solutions.


Oh so if someone came up with a real way to solve violent crime and wanted gun control you would be against it even if the violent crime was guaranteed to drop 10 fold?
I am pro-life, anti-gun, pro-immigration, pro UHC, pro-free college, pro universal income, anti-war, anti-death penalty, pro-financial ade, pro anything that makes children's lives better.

I finally realised how messed up English was when I read a sign in French and could comprehend half of it despite never learning any French

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45368
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:03 pm

Republic of Keshiland wrote:
Valgora wrote:
Because discussing gun control blinds us from finding real solutions.

So really... it's the fault of people like Keshi who keep us from finding real solutions.


Oh so if someone came up with a real way to solve violent crime and wanted gun control you would be against it even if the violent crime was guaranteed to drop 10 fold?


Given violent crime in my area is already very low, yea.
Third Positionist, Agrarian, Anti-Racist, Authoritarian

User avatar
Valgora
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6635
Founded: Mar 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Valgora » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:03 pm

Republic of Keshiland wrote:
Valgora wrote:
Because discussing gun control blinds us from finding real solutions.

So really... it's the fault of people like Keshi who keep us from finding real solutions.


Oh so if someone came up with a real way to solve violent crime and wanted gun control you would be against it even if the violent crime was guaranteed to drop 10 fold?


Because if they gave a real fuckin' way to solve violent crime, we wouldn't need gun control.
So yea, I wouldn't support them.
Libertarian Syndicalist
Not state capitalist

MT+FanT+some PMT
Multi-species.
Current gov't:
Founded 2023
Currently 2027

DISREGARD NS STATS
Link to factbooks-Forum Factbook-Q&A-Embassy
The Reverend Tim
Ordained Dudeist Priest
IRL Me
Luxemburgist/Syndicalist, brony, metalhead
Valgora =+/-IRL views
8 Values

Pro - Socialism/communism, Palestine, space exploration, left libertarianism, BLM, Gun Rights, LGBTQ, Industrial Hemp
Anti - Trump, Hillary, capitalism, authoritarianism, Gun Control, Police, UN, electric cars, Automation of the workforce
Sometimes, I like to think of myself as the Commie version of Dale Gribble.

User avatar
Republic of Keshiland
Minister
 
Posts: 2164
Founded: Oct 21, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Republic of Keshiland » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:04 pm

Telconi wrote:
Republic of Keshiland wrote:
Poverty breeds violent crime. If you all would stop voting for people who literally only care about guns and not people we could fix the issue and get people off the streets into school working and healthy.


I'd love to vote for people working to end poverty. Unfortunately, they all seem to be gun grabbing assholes.


The same gun > lives that always happens. Atleast this time. When republicans said to Virginians the democrats are going to take your guns the Democrats said damn right and won.
I am pro-life, anti-gun, pro-immigration, pro UHC, pro-free college, pro universal income, anti-war, anti-death penalty, pro-financial ade, pro anything that makes children's lives better.

I finally realised how messed up English was when I read a sign in French and could comprehend half of it despite never learning any French

User avatar
Len Hyet
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10701
Founded: Jun 25, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Len Hyet » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:05 pm

Republic of Keshiland wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I'd love to vote for people working to end poverty. Unfortunately, they all seem to be gun grabbing assholes.


The same gun > lives that always happens. Atleast this time. When republicans said to Virginians the democrats are going to take your guns the Democrats said damn right and won.

Am a Virginian.

That is not what happened.
=][= Founder, 1st NSG Irregulars. Our Militia is Well Regulated and Well Lubricated!

On a recently declared one-man campaign to elevate the discourse of you heathens.

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45368
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:06 pm

Republic of Keshiland wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I'd love to vote for people working to end poverty. Unfortunately, they all seem to be gun grabbing assholes.


The same gun > lives that always happens. Atleast this time. When republicans said to Virginians the democrats are going to take your guns the Democrats said damn right and won.


That isn't why they won lol.

The Dems won Virginia because Gilispie was an amazingly bad candidate.
Third Positionist, Agrarian, Anti-Racist, Authoritarian

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33657
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:06 pm

Valgora wrote:
Galloism wrote:I'm pretty "blue" all things considered, but anyone with half a brain can see the half baked ideas we've seen vomited into this thread are fucking stupid, and I'm with the gun nuts on this issue.

Poverty is the biggest driver of violent crime. Why don't we address that?


Because discussing gun control blinds us from finding real solutions.

So really... it's the fault of people like Keshi who keep us from finding real solutions.


I can't offer enough "THIS!" to adequately express myself. Gun grabbers who spend their energy trying to tyrranize people are the reason actual solutions never get anywhere. People shot down Cruz's bill that would have helped prevent that shit in Texas because it wasn't oppressive enough for their sinister agenda, and so we got nothing.

They try to blame the NRA or the Republican party, if anyone has blood on their hands it's those bastards sitting on the floor of the Senate throwing temper tantrums because thy can't take my rights.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Republic of Keshiland
Minister
 
Posts: 2164
Founded: Oct 21, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Republic of Keshiland » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:08 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Republic of Keshiland wrote:
The same gun > lives that always happens. Atleast this time. When republicans said to Virginians the democrats are going to take your guns the Democrats said damn right and won.


That isn't why they won lol.

The Dems won Virginia because Gilispie was an amazingly bad candidate.


They won because they campaigned on real issues that effect real people and were average people not just white collar people in a suit
I am pro-life, anti-gun, pro-immigration, pro UHC, pro-free college, pro universal income, anti-war, anti-death penalty, pro-financial ade, pro anything that makes children's lives better.

I finally realised how messed up English was when I read a sign in French and could comprehend half of it despite never learning any French

User avatar
Len Hyet
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10701
Founded: Jun 25, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Len Hyet » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:09 pm

Republic of Keshiland wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
That isn't why they won lol.

The Dems won Virginia because Gilispie was an amazingly bad candidate.


They won because they campaigned on real issues that effect real people and were average people not just white collar people in a suit

Do you even read your own posts? Gillespie lost because he tied himself to Trump's policies in a state that overwhelmingly does not agree with Trump.
=][= Founder, 1st NSG Irregulars. Our Militia is Well Regulated and Well Lubricated!

On a recently declared one-man campaign to elevate the discourse of you heathens.

User avatar
Albrenia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12595
Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Albrenia » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:11 pm

Telconi wrote:They try to blame the NRA or the Republican party, if anyone has blood on their hands it's those bastards sitting on the floor of the Senate throwing temper tantrums because thy can't take my rights.


As much as I agree with the rest of your post, this seems a bit like bullhockey to me. If the overreachers are to blame, then so too are the overly clingy. Both are pulling too hard in opposite directions.

User avatar
The Sands Casino
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 104
Founded: Jun 29, 2017
Capitalizt

Postby The Sands Casino » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:13 pm

Valgora wrote:-snip
I can run into a large group of people with a truck, that can cause a fuckin' mass killing.
-snip-


I'm in the UK. I need to have a driving licence, the appropriate insurance, and the truck needs to be registered, before I get to drive it. Is it different in the US?

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45368
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:14 pm

The Sands Casino wrote:
Valgora wrote:-snip
I can run into a large group of people with a truck, that can cause a fuckin' mass killing.
-snip-


I'm in the UK. I need to have a driving licence, the appropriate insurance, and the truck needs to be registered, before I get to drive it. Is it different in the US?


You can buy and drive a vehicle with no government intervention. You only need such things if you're on public roads.
Third Positionist, Agrarian, Anti-Racist, Authoritarian

User avatar
Valgora
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6635
Founded: Mar 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Valgora » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:14 pm

The Sands Casino wrote:
Valgora wrote:-snip
I can run into a large group of people with a truck, that can cause a fuckin' mass killing.
-snip-


I'm in the UK. I need to have a driving licence, the appropriate insurance, and the truck needs to be registered, before I get to drive it. Is it different in the US?


Depends on the truck.
You really just need a drivers license and insurance, but that changes state-by-state (in Arkansas, I'm pretty sure liability insurance is required).
Libertarian Syndicalist
Not state capitalist

MT+FanT+some PMT
Multi-species.
Current gov't:
Founded 2023
Currently 2027

DISREGARD NS STATS
Link to factbooks-Forum Factbook-Q&A-Embassy
The Reverend Tim
Ordained Dudeist Priest
IRL Me
Luxemburgist/Syndicalist, brony, metalhead
Valgora =+/-IRL views
8 Values

Pro - Socialism/communism, Palestine, space exploration, left libertarianism, BLM, Gun Rights, LGBTQ, Industrial Hemp
Anti - Trump, Hillary, capitalism, authoritarianism, Gun Control, Police, UN, electric cars, Automation of the workforce
Sometimes, I like to think of myself as the Commie version of Dale Gribble.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33657
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:15 pm

Republic of Keshiland wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I'd love to vote for people working to end poverty. Unfortunately, they all seem to be gun grabbing assholes.


The same gun > lives that always happens. Atleast this time. When republicans said to Virginians the democrats are going to take your guns the Democrats said damn right and won.


I'll take "gun > lives" over the stupid "feelings > human rights" garbage you're trying to feed me. Thank you very much.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Len Hyet
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10701
Founded: Jun 25, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Len Hyet » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:15 pm

The Sands Casino wrote:
Valgora wrote:-snip
I can run into a large group of people with a truck, that can cause a fuckin' mass killing.
-snip-


I'm in the UK. I need to have a driving licence, the appropriate insurance, and the truck needs to be registered, before I get to drive it. Is it different in the US?

Before you get to drive it or before you get to own it?

In the US you only need the license, insurance, and registration to drive the vehicle, not to own it.
=][= Founder, 1st NSG Irregulars. Our Militia is Well Regulated and Well Lubricated!

On a recently declared one-man campaign to elevate the discourse of you heathens.

User avatar
Albrenia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12595
Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Albrenia » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:15 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
The Sands Casino wrote:
I'm in the UK. I need to have a driving licence, the appropriate insurance, and the truck needs to be registered, before I get to drive it. Is it different in the US?


You can buy and drive a vehicle with no government intervention. You only need such things if you're on public roads.


Not a lot of mass killings via vehicle happen on back roads of private properties though.

User avatar
Sovaal
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13696
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Sovaal » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:15 pm

Republic of Keshiland wrote:
Valgora wrote:
Because discussing gun control blinds us from finding real solutions.

So really... it's the fault of people like Keshi who keep us from finding real solutions.


Oh so if someone came up with a real way to solve violent crime and wanted gun control you would be against it even if the violent crime was guaranteed to drop 10 fold?

Yep. Just implement the other solution instead.
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

”Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." -
Winston Churchill, 1947.

"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

User avatar
Republic of Keshiland
Minister
 
Posts: 2164
Founded: Oct 21, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Republic of Keshiland » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:16 pm

Telconi wrote:
Republic of Keshiland wrote:
The same gun > lives that always happens. Atleast this time. When republicans said to Virginians the democrats are going to take your guns the Democrats said damn right and won.


I'll take "gun > lives" over the stupid "feelings > human rights" garbage you're trying to feed me. Thank you very much.


It Is Not A Human Right If Only One Country Makes It A Right!
I am pro-life, anti-gun, pro-immigration, pro UHC, pro-free college, pro universal income, anti-war, anti-death penalty, pro-financial ade, pro anything that makes children's lives better.

I finally realised how messed up English was when I read a sign in French and could comprehend half of it despite never learning any French

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45368
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:16 pm

Albrenia wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
You can buy and drive a vehicle with no government intervention. You only need such things if you're on public roads.


Not a lot of mass killings via vehicle happen on back roads of private properties though.


Sure, but there's nothing stopping me from buying a vehicle and promptly slamming that shit into a parade crowd.

You can't really stop lone wolf attacks.
Third Positionist, Agrarian, Anti-Racist, Authoritarian

User avatar
Sovaal
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13696
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Sovaal » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:16 pm

Albrenia wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
You can buy and drive a vehicle with no government intervention. You only need such things if you're on public roads.


Not a lot of mass killings via vehicle happen on back roads of private properties though.

In many places to carry a gun in public you need a permit.
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

”Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." -
Winston Churchill, 1947.

"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

User avatar
Valgora
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6635
Founded: Mar 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Valgora » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:16 pm

Albrenia wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
You can buy and drive a vehicle with no government intervention. You only need such things if you're on public roads.


Not a lot of mass killings via vehicle happen on back roads of private properties though.


If you plan on doing a mass killing via vehicle, I highly doubt you're going to care about laws that dictate whether or not you can drive.
Libertarian Syndicalist
Not state capitalist

MT+FanT+some PMT
Multi-species.
Current gov't:
Founded 2023
Currently 2027

DISREGARD NS STATS
Link to factbooks-Forum Factbook-Q&A-Embassy
The Reverend Tim
Ordained Dudeist Priest
IRL Me
Luxemburgist/Syndicalist, brony, metalhead
Valgora =+/-IRL views
8 Values

Pro - Socialism/communism, Palestine, space exploration, left libertarianism, BLM, Gun Rights, LGBTQ, Industrial Hemp
Anti - Trump, Hillary, capitalism, authoritarianism, Gun Control, Police, UN, electric cars, Automation of the workforce
Sometimes, I like to think of myself as the Commie version of Dale Gribble.

User avatar
Valgora
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6635
Founded: Mar 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Valgora » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:17 pm

Republic of Keshiland wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I'll take "gun > lives" over the stupid "feelings > human rights" garbage you're trying to feed me. Thank you very much.


It Is Not A Human Right If Only One Country Makes It A Right!


Not true.
That just means one country has recognized the human right and has taken action to protect it.
Libertarian Syndicalist
Not state capitalist

MT+FanT+some PMT
Multi-species.
Current gov't:
Founded 2023
Currently 2027

DISREGARD NS STATS
Link to factbooks-Forum Factbook-Q&A-Embassy
The Reverend Tim
Ordained Dudeist Priest
IRL Me
Luxemburgist/Syndicalist, brony, metalhead
Valgora =+/-IRL views
8 Values

Pro - Socialism/communism, Palestine, space exploration, left libertarianism, BLM, Gun Rights, LGBTQ, Industrial Hemp
Anti - Trump, Hillary, capitalism, authoritarianism, Gun Control, Police, UN, electric cars, Automation of the workforce
Sometimes, I like to think of myself as the Commie version of Dale Gribble.

User avatar
Albrenia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12595
Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Albrenia » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:18 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Albrenia wrote:
Not a lot of mass killings via vehicle happen on back roads of private properties though.


Sure, but there's nothing stopping me from buying a vehicle and promptly slamming that shit into a parade crowd.

You can't really stop lone wolf attacks.


Can't argue that. Lone wolf attacks seem pretty much impossible to stop.

User avatar
Sovaal
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13696
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Sovaal » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:18 pm

Republic of Keshiland wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I'll take "gun > lives" over the stupid "feelings > human rights" garbage you're trying to feed me. Thank you very much.


It Is Not A Human Right If Only One Country Makes It A Right!

Says who?
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

”Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." -
Winston Churchill, 1947.

"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

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