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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:07 pm
by Genivaria
The East Marches II wrote:
Genivaria wrote:With Germany's tiny coastline I'd say that's a lesser concern.


>Not trying a modern day version of the battleship race

Pls, your flag is a WW1 alternate anime, you should know this.

Fun fact, when I play as Germany in HOI4 I just spam Tac Bombers and Heavy Fighters to sink all European opposition.
Planes are easier to replace and YOU CAN'T BEAT GERMAN AIR POWER BITCH! :p

Also Germany should've just annexed Denmark long ago. :p

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:09 pm
by Bakery Hill
Genivaria wrote:
The East Marches II wrote:
>Not trying a modern day version of the battleship race

Pls, your flag is a WW1 alternate anime, you should know this.

Fun fact, when I play as Germany in HOI4 I just spam Tac Bombers and Heavy Fighters to sink all European opposition.
Planes are easier to replace and YOU CAN'T BEAT GERMAN AIR POWER BITCH! :p

Also Germany should've just annexed Denmark long ago. :p

RAF disagrees.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:11 pm
by Genivaria
Bakery Hill wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Fun fact, when I play as Germany in HOI4 I just spam Tac Bombers and Heavy Fighters to sink all European opposition.
Planes are easier to replace and YOU CAN'T BEAT GERMAN AIR POWER BITCH! :p

Also Germany should've just annexed Denmark long ago. :p

RAF disagrees.

RAF doesn't fucking exist in my games. :D

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:21 pm
by The East Marches II
Genivaria wrote:
The East Marches II wrote:
>Not trying a modern day version of the battleship race

Pls, your flag is a WW1 alternate anime, you should know this.

Fun fact, when I play as Germany in HOI4 I just spam Tac Bombers and Heavy Fighters to sink all European opposition.
Planes are easier to replace and YOU CAN'T BEAT GERMAN AIR POWER BITCH! :p

Also Germany should've just annexed Denmark long ago. :p


S T R A T E G I C B O M B E R S
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:22 pm
by Genivaria
The East Marches II wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Fun fact, when I play as Germany in HOI4 I just spam Tac Bombers and Heavy Fighters to sink all European opposition.
Planes are easier to replace and YOU CAN'T BEAT GERMAN AIR POWER BITCH! :p

Also Germany should've just annexed Denmark long ago. :p


S T R A T E G I C B O M B E R S
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R
A
T
E
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B-But I want their factories for more tanks and bombers!

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:20 pm
by Borovan4
She should get the death penalty. A person at 16 is irrational at times but joining a fundamentalist group? You're really asking for trouble. Sooner or later when she gets out of prison she'll just get back to ISIS.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:29 pm
by Romanum Dominium
Well, when you play fucked up games, you win fucked up prizes. That said, I really don't like the idea of executing teenagers or children and if I were running the German government, I would be lobbying for Iraq to promise not to give her the death penalty. I wouldn't be lobbying very hard, because, again, see above about games and prizes, but I think the attempt ought to be made.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:11 pm
by Gauthier
Seems like Germany is going to be pushed by fear of precedent. If they don't put up a fight for this girl then they pretty much forfeit the right to plea for the release of future citizens, even if they've fucked up significantly less than this one.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:18 pm
by Cedoria
Saiwania wrote:
HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:She should be extradited to Germany and executed for treason.


Germany is but a sad shadow of its former greatness since 1945. It is full of weakness and fragility and as such- they can't get her back, because that'd mean she is spared. The only satisfactory outcome is for Iraq to execute this girl. Preferably by firing squad.

1945? The same year when not a building over two storeys high left standing from one end of the country to the other was the norm?

Yeah, I can see how much worse it is now.

BonziNation wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
Germany will probably have issues with that. The last time they had the death penalty, they went a bit over-board.....


Except now they're overwhelmingly left-wing and extremely superstitious of any form of nationalism.


You say that like it's a bad thing even if it were true...

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:03 am
by BonziNation
Cedoria wrote:
Saiwania wrote:
Germany is but a sad shadow of its former greatness since 1945. It is full of weakness and fragility and as such- they can't get her back, because that'd mean she is spared. The only satisfactory outcome is for Iraq to execute this girl. Preferably by firing squad.

1945? The same year when not a building over two storeys high left standing from one end of the country to the other was the norm?

Yeah, I can see how much worse it is now.

BonziNation wrote:
Except now they're overwhelmingly left-wing and extremely superstitious of any form of nationalism.


You say that like it's a bad thing even if it were true...


...because it is.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:07 am
by Risottia
Kennlind wrote:Good! All Daesh fighters should face justice :)

Risottia wrote:People are considered to be minors in Iraq and in Germany and by the UN until they come of age at 18. "Minor" implies "is at least partly excused from her responsibilities because she's too young to know better".

What 15/16 year old joins ISIS because they're bored? She joined to establish a caliphate. She joined to kill innocents. She KNEW what she was doing. Stop assuming all minors are unable to comprehend what their actions actually mean.

Not only minors must be assumed to be at least partly unable to comprehend the consequences of their actions (that's why they are placed under legal custodianship and don't have political rights), they must also be assumed to be ignorant (that's why there's a thing such as mandatory schooling).
Got a problem with it? Why? Do you want minors to be treated like adults? Seriously? Why?

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:35 am
by Hirota
Galloism wrote:There seems to be an interesting story in here that I'm curious about.

How does a 15 year old travel to iraq on her own?
It's relatively common, and I assume there is some support available if buying the ticket is an issue for them. The new statesman had an article about Jihadi Brides - the average age for women is 15.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:39 am
by Soviet-mongol
Thermodolia wrote:She joined. She knew the consequences, she knew what ISIS was doing. She had the ability to reason and she reasoned wrong.

She should be left in Iraq

This is a wrong reasoning in my opinion. Maybe she just like every teenager wanted to try see adventures. She should be given a chance. Iraq is also a country that has a very dynamic culture than the European one. To make it simple, she was only a deluded minor.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:46 am
by The Empire of Pretantia
Soviet-mongol wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:She joined. She knew the consequences, she knew what ISIS was doing. She had the ability to reason and she reasoned wrong.

She should be left in Iraq

This is a wrong reasoning in my opinion. Maybe she just like every teenager wanted to try see adventures. She should be given a chance. Iraq is also a country that has a very dynamic culture than the boring European one.

She joined fucking ISIS.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:47 am
by Soviet-mongol
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:She joined fucking ISIS.

Well, yes. That is a point. But maybe she was deluded just like every girl in her age. Who knows what was going in her head?

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:52 am
by The Empire of Pretantia
Soviet-mongol wrote:
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:She joined fucking ISIS.

Well, yes. That is a point. But maybe she was deluded just like every girl in her age. Who knows what was going in her head?

Oh no shit she was deluded, but not like every girl her age.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:51 am
by Albrenia
It's kind of hard to pass off betraying your country, joining a terrorist network, leaving your country and murdering people as a simple 'teenage mistake'.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:03 am
by Ifreann
Nocturnalis wrote:It is nobody elses business but the Iraqi's as to what happens to her.

It's the business of the German government, as she is a German citizen.


Romanum Dominium wrote:Well, when you play fucked up games, you win fucked up prizes. That said, I really don't like the idea of executing teenagers or children and if I were running the German government, I would be lobbying for Iraq to promise not to give her the death penalty. I wouldn't be lobbying very hard, because, again, see above about games and prizes, but I think the attempt ought to be made.

Iraq isn't going to execute her because they're party to treaties that forbid executing children.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:25 pm
by BonziNation
Albrenia wrote:It's kind of hard to pass off betraying your country, joining a terrorist network, leaving your country and murdering people as a simple 'teenage mistake'.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:29 pm
by Segral
While I do believe she knew what she was getting into, and that she had the capacity to reason, I don't actually believe in death penalty, and I don't think anybody deserves death penalty, so I would say just throw her in jail for life, if it's possible.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:37 pm
by Eisen Wolf Reich
In america we used to execute, and now still jail, multi murders, even if they are under the age of 18. I see no reason why Iraq shouldn't do the same

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:37 pm
by Kramania
Risottia wrote:
Kramania wrote:And apparently she can be executed in Iraq.

No, she can't. Iraq has signed a treaty which forbids the death penalty for minors. Treatises rank above ordinary law.

From OP:
OP wrote:Iraq is a signatory to international treaties forbidding the use of the death penalty on those under 18
.

If you have different information, please provide link.

And evidently Iraq has chosen to disregard that treaty. Now what?

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:55 pm
by The Eternal Aulus
She violated local law and, normally, she has to be serve her punishment there. I'm not in favor of the death penalty, but that doesn't mean I can not understand why the Iraqis want to give her that sentence. She's a German citizen too, so I reckon that she could be better sit her punishment in Germany (ie, Iraqi judge judges her to jail for 20 years and she'll be in German jail for 20 years). Aside of that - heavy psychological counseling, normal contact with her parents.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:06 pm
by Donut section
Germany should evaluate her maturity.

Joining ISIS is a bit further afield than the usual, thinks socialism is ok, teenage stupidity. If she was mature enough then they should let Iraq put her on trial and execute her. If not then she should be tried in Iraq but face a maximum of a custodial sentence in Germany.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:44 pm
by Ifreann
Eisen Wolf Reich wrote:In america we used to execute, and now still jail, multi murders, even if they are under the age of 18. I see no reason why Iraq shouldn't do the same

Hopefully Iraq can hold itself to a higher standard than "In america we used to...".


Kramania wrote:
Risottia wrote:No, she can't. Iraq has signed a treaty which forbids the death penalty for minors. Treatises rank above ordinary law.

From OP:
.

If you have different information, please provide link.

And evidently Iraq has chosen to disregard that treaty. Now what?

They haven't disregarded anything.