Pandas - why do we pay for them!?

[USS Monitor]

We could say the same thing about humans.

I don't know about you, but I've never eaten bamboo.

You should fix that. Bamboo shoots are a nice vegetable to use in stir fry.

[Seangoli]

It wouldn't be an issue if the Pandas wouldn't just be so.. unwilling to multiply. They are one, if not the only one species where "babymaking" is a substitute word for "Satan".
Why Pandas? Why?....

As silly an animal as I thinknthe Panda is (being about as close to pointless an animal can get), they actually dont have much issue breeding in the wild. Their populations have steadily increased in the wild without much human intervention beyond conservation of territory. In captivity, however, they just dont seem to give a fuck. At all.

[Krasny-Volny]

Stop with the panda-themed puppetwanking, please.

[Ifreann]

It wouldn't be an issue if the Pandas wouldn't just be so.. unwilling to multiply. They are one, if not the only one species where "babymaking" is a substitute word for "Satan".
Why Pandas? Why?....

As silly an animal as I thinknthe Panda is (being about as close to pointless an animal can get), they actually dont have much issue breeding in the wild. Their populations have steadily increased in the wild without much human intervention beyond conservation of territory. In captivity, however, they just dont seem to give a fuck. At all.

Maybe they're shy.

[Purpelia]

Isn't it more cold hearted to decide survival on how pretty you think an animal is?

It's just human nature. Consider this. Would you rather eat a kitten or a cow? The cow is infinitely more useful to you alive. It provides milk that you can pretty much live off and it gives birth to baby cows that you can eat instead. And yet you're more inclined to eat it than a kitten.

Bottom line is we humans are the alpha predator of this world. And being cute to our eye is an evolutionary advantage for other species.

[Seangoli]

Isn't it more cold hearted to decide survival on how pretty you think an animal is?

It's just human nature. Consider this. Would you rather eat a kitten or a cow? The cow is infinitely more useful to you alive. It provides milk that you can pretty much live off and it gives birth to baby cows that you can eat instead. And yet you're more inclined to eat it than a kitten.

Bottom line is we humans are the alpha predator of this world. And being cute to our eye is an evolutionary advantage for other species.

Humans are dietary generalists whom eat damn near anything we can get our hands. We arent really apex predators at all in the traditional sense.

This doesnt have a lot to do with the discussion at hand, but I am damn tired of reading it from people with only a base level of understanding on human development and evolution. The fact is, most human populations, regardless of subsistence patterns, survive largely on non-meat resources. Even non-sedentary groups subsisted primarily on gathered plants. Only in certain rare extremes was meat a predominant portion of the diet.

[Aellex]

Isn't it more cold hearted to decide survival on how pretty you think an animal is?

It's just human nature. Consider this. Would you rather eat a kitten or a cow? The cow is infinitely more useful to you alive. It provides milk that you can pretty much live off and it gives birth to baby cows that you can eat instead. And yet you're more inclined to eat it than a kitten.

Bottom line is we humans are the alpha predator of this world. And being cute to our eye is an evolutionary advantage for other species.

Tbf, I actually would very much like to eat cats (which may or may not be related to the fact that I fucking hate them) and pandas too. Just to try the taste of it.

[Purpelia]

Humans are dietary generalists whom eat damn near anything we can get our hands. We arent really apex predators at all in the traditional sense.

This doesnt have a lot to do with the discussion at hand, but I am damn tired of reading it from people with only a base level of understanding on human development and evolution. The fact is, most human populations, regardless of subsistence patterns, survive largely on non-meat resources. Even non-sedentary groups subsisted primarily on gathered plants. Only in certain rare extremes was meat a predominant portion of the diet.

Aren't we though? Plant, animal, fish, bird, vegetable or fruit. What does it matter to them what they are when we humans decide what to cultivate and what to extinguish, what to breed and consume for ever more and what to just let die by the wayside of progress and industry? We have literally become as unto gods shaping and molding entire species to our desires and usurping the evolutionary process to fit our needs. So yes, I'd say we are the apex of all predation.

Tbf, I actually would very much like to eat cats (which may or may not be related to the fact that I fucking hate them) and pandas too. Just to try the taste of it.

Same here. But I tend to think of people like us as a special minority.

[Thermodolia]

Too much money is spent on Pandas.

- They pretty much only eat bamboo. If they don't eat bamboo, it's an accident.
- They cannot hibernate because a diet consisting of just bamboo doesn't allow them to get fat enough to hibernate.
- Panda cubs take forever to grow because their diet of low-nutrient bamboo means low-nutrient milk.
- In fact, lots of panda cubs die.
- Even better, this is probably the only species that actively refuses to fornicate. Millions are spent each year to get pandas to get down and do the dirty, and they just don't.

This species has earned it's own extinction. They are in an evolutionary cul-de-sac. A leaf on the evolutionary tree. A failed mutation. A lineage whose time has come. Why do we keep paying for them?

They bring in quite a lot of money

[Purpelia]

Speaking of panda fornication though I don't see why we would keep insisting on it happening through natural means. Just strap a male and a lady panda down, extract what you need from one and forcefully inject it into the other and bam, you're done. If it's good enough for cows its good enough for furry teddy bears.

[Cetacea]

This species has earned it's own extinction. They are in an evolutionary cul-de-sac. A leaf on the evolutionary tree. A failed mutation. A lineage whose time has come. Why do we keep paying for them?

We could say the same thing about humans.

Only Vegans

[Thermodolia]

Speaking of panda fornication though I don't see why we would keep insisting on it happening through natural means. Just strap a male and a lady panda down, extract what you need from one and forcefully inject it into the other and bam, you're done. If it's good enough for cows its good enough for furry teddy bears.

Unfortunately we can't do that without causing an international crisis. We'd have to have Chinese permission to do so because technically we don't own them we just take care of them for the Chinese on a long term basis. The pandas are basically Chinese ambassadors

[Purpelia]

Speaking of panda fornication though I don't see why we would keep insisting on it happening through natural means. Just strap a male and a lady panda down, extract what you need from one and forcefully inject it into the other and bam, you're done. If it's good enough for cows its good enough for furry teddy bears.

Unfortunately we can't do that without causing an international crisis. We'd have to have Chinese permission to do so because technically we don't own them we just take care of them for the Chinese on a long term basis. The pandas are basically Chinese ambassadors

We as in the human race. Not any particular group of people, nation or what ever.

[Thermodolia]

Unfortunately we can't do that without causing an international crisis. We'd have to have Chinese permission to do so because technically we don't own them we just take care of them for the Chinese on a long term basis. The pandas are basically Chinese ambassadors

We as in the human race. Not any particular group of people, nation or what ever.

I agree with you in that regard. I'm just saying that you'll have to convince the Chinese.

[Badly Bearhaved]

Speaking of panda fornication though I don't see why we would keep insisting on it happening through natural means. Just strap a male and a lady panda down, extract what you need from one and forcefully inject it into the other and bam, you're done. If it's good enough for cows its good enough for furry teddy bears.

Because IVF has a high rate of failure in pandas. It's already being used, just not very successfully. Plus, it's expensive. That money could be used on IVF for species that would benefit more from it.

[Seangoli]

Unfortunately we can't do that without causing an international crisis. We'd have to have Chinese permission to do so because technically we don't own them we just take care of them for the Chinese on a long term basis. The pandas are basically Chinese ambassadors

We as in the human race. Not any particular group of people, nation or what ever.

Pandas mate just fine in the wild. Their numbers plummeted from loss of habitat and poaching from developers and farmers. The conservation efforts by Vhina have stabalized their habitats, and their numbers have grown significantly in their own, to the ooint where they are no longer endangered.

For some readon, they do not seem good at it in captivity, which is not uncommon.

[Thermodolia]

We as in the human race. Not any particular group of people, nation or what ever.

Pandas mate just fine in the wild. Their numbers plummeted from loss of habitat and poaching from developers and farmers. The conservation efforts by Vhina have stabalized their habitats, and their numbers have grown significantly in their own, to the ooint where they are no longer endangered.

Plus the ones in Atlanta have had multiple pandalings or whatever you call a baby panda

[Colbert Super PAC]

Isn't it more cold hearted to decide survival on how pretty you think an animal is?

It's just human nature. Consider this. Would you rather eat a kitten or a cow? The cow is infinitely more useful to you alive. It provides milk that you can pretty much live off and it gives birth to baby cows that you can eat instead. And yet you're more inclined to eat it than a kitten.

Bottom line is we humans are the alpha predator of this world. And being cute to our eye is an evolutionary advantage for other species.

Hmmm. Note to self: Promote worldwide vegetarianism by genetically modifying all animals to be too cute to eat.

[Diopolis]

It wouldn't be an issue if the Pandas wouldn't just be so.. unwilling to multiply. They are one, if not the only one species where "babymaking" is a substitute word for "Satan".
Why Pandas? Why?....

I dunno, humans seem to go out of their way to avoid it a lot.
Anyways, I seem to recall reading somewhere that pandas refusing to, ahem, do the nasty is because their captivity causes mental health problems and that's a symptom, while in the wild they're like drunken frat bros.

[Blairwood]

Too much money is spent on Pandas.

- They pretty much only eat bamboo. If they don't eat bamboo, it's an accident.
- They cannot hibernate because a diet consisting of just bamboo doesn't allow them to get fat enough to hibernate.
- Panda cubs take forever to grow because their diet of low-nutrient bamboo means low-nutrient milk.
- In fact, lots of panda cubs die.
- Even better, this is probably the only species that actively refuses to fornicate. Millions are spent each year to get pandas to get down and do the dirty, and they just don't.

This species has earned it's own extinction. They are in an evolutionary cul-de-sac. A leaf on the evolutionary tree. A failed mutation. A lineage whose time has come. Why do we keep paying for them?

They bring in quite a lot of money

Also a good point, the job losses in zoos would hurt the economy quite a bit.

Including youth, who rely on zoos and other amusement park type jobs to give them crucial job experience.

Letting Pandas die would effect a zoos income, that would effect youth employment and adult employment.

[Badly Bearhaved]

They bring in quite a lot of money

Also a good point, the job losses in zoos would hurt the economy quite a bit.

Including youth, who rely on zoos and other amusement park type jobs to give them crucial job experience.

Letting Pandas die would effect a zoos income, that would effect youth employment and adult employment.

Right, but zoos can promote other animals. Pandas aren't unique in being able to attract visitors.

[Ifreann]

Humans are dietary generalists whom eat damn near anything we can get our hands. We arent really apex predators at all in the traditional sense.

This doesnt have a lot to do with the discussion at hand, but I am damn tired of reading it from people with only a base level of understanding on human development and evolution. The fact is, most human populations, regardless of subsistence patterns, survive largely on non-meat resources. Even non-sedentary groups subsisted primarily on gathered plants. Only in certain rare extremes was meat a predominant portion of the diet.

Aren't we though? Plant, animal, fish, bird, vegetable or fruit. What does it matter to them what they are when we humans decide what to cultivate and what to extinguish, what to breed and consume for ever more and what to just let die by the wayside of progress and industry? We have literally become as unto gods shaping and molding entire species to our desires and usurping the evolutionary process to fit our needs. So yes, I'd say we are the apex of all predation.

Predation is hunting and killing animals for food. We mostly don't do that. And there are species that would prey on us, given the opportunity. So we aren't really apex predators.

---

Pandas mate just fine in the wild. Their numbers plummeted from loss of habitat and poaching from developers and farmers. The conservation efforts by Vhina have stabalized their habitats, and their numbers have grown significantly in their own, to the ooint where they are no longer endangered.

Plus the ones in Atlanta have had multiple pandalings or whatever you call a baby panda

A cub.

[Blairwood]

Also a good point, the job losses in zoos would hurt the economy quite a bit.

Including youth, who rely on zoos and other amusement park type jobs to give them crucial job experience.

Letting Pandas die would effect a zoos income, that would effect youth employment and adult employment.

Right, but zoos can promote other animals. Pandas aren't unique in being able to attract visitors.

But they are a very lucrative investment for a zoo to have. Any zoo that has Pandas would suffer harshly from the loss of pandas.

[Badly Bearhaved]

Right, but zoos can promote other animals. Pandas aren't unique in being able to attract visitors.

But they are a very lucrative investment for a zoo to have. Any zoo that has Pandas would suffer harshly from the loss of pandas.

Pandas literally cost zoos a million dollars a year just to loan from China, and another million to care for. They cost 5x the next most expensive animal, elephants. If a zoo had no pandas, they would save all that money, and they could just be like, "hey, look at our tigers! look at our elephants! we have lemurs and monkeys and saiga and mantis shrimp and clouded leopards!"

[Blairwood]

But they are a very lucrative investment for a zoo to have. Any zoo that has Pandas would suffer harshly from the loss of pandas.

Pandas literally cost zoos a million dollars a year just to loan from China, and another million to care for. They cost 5x the next most expensive animal, elephants. If a zoo had no pandas, they would save all that money, and they could just be like, "hey, look at our tigers! look at our elephants! we have lemurs and monkeys and saiga and mantis shrimp and clouded leopards!"

" Corporations are also glad to fork money over for the bears. Fujifilm will get a lot of promotional benefit from its $7 million donation; UPS flew Zoo Atlanta's bears from China for free; and Federal Express had to match them by delivering Washington’s pandas.

For a Good Cause

Lucy Spelman, director of the National Zoo, expects the pandas to have a direct effect on attendance.

“No question, the pandas will bring more visitors; we expect as much as a 20 percent rise in visitation,” says Spelman. "

So miss out on a 20% boost in visitation and 7 million on donations?