Should Parents Have the Right to Force Religious Belief?

[Alvecia]

Ideally not. Kids should be taught to think critically and be allowed to choose for themselves.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

To the point of punishing them for their (dis)belief? No, that edges into child abuse.

Raise them in their own religion? Sure, I guess, but that they feel the need to is a pretty strong indictment of their beliefs.

[Albrenia]

Raise them in their own religion? Sure, I guess, but that they feel the need to is a pretty strong indictment of their beliefs.

I think there is truth to this statement.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Force it upon them? No. Raise them with those beliefs in mind? Sure, go for it.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

[...]Raise them in their own religion? Sure, I guess, but that they feel the need to is a pretty strong indictment of their beliefs.

What indictment do you believe it demonstrate?

[Alvecia]

[...]Raise them in their own religion? Sure, I guess, but that they feel the need to is a pretty strong indictment of their beliefs.

What indictment do you believe it demonstrate?

Presumably that they're not confident that their beliefs will speak for themselves.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Presumably that they're not confident that their beliefs will speak for themselves.

That's pretty presumptuous don't you think? I don't think the majority, nor even a large minority would have something like that in mind. It is probably more likely than not that they simply believe those beliefs will serve their children the best.

[The Huskar Social Union]

No, i feel that they can teach their beliefs to their children, but once they are old enough those children should be allowed to decide for themselves what religion they want to follow if any. No enforcing of any kind.

Im an atheist and i dont have kids, but if i did i obviously would not teach them any religious stuff, but if they took an interest in one as they grew older i would not mind if they wanted to follow it as long as they were not the evangelising ass hole type.

Same thing if the woman i was with was religious and she wanted to teach our kid or kids her beliefs that would be no issue with me as long as she was okay with them not wanting to be religious and continue following those beliefs if they got older.

[Alvecia]

Presumably that they're not confident that their beliefs will speak for themselves.

That's pretty presumptuous don't you think? I don't think the majority, nor even a large minority would have something like that in mind.

*shrug*
I think it's more like sports teams to be honest, but it's a fair point. If those truths were indeed self evident then you shouldn't need to preach them.

That said, kids are something of a special case because, let's be honest, kids are idiots.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

As a nonparent, no. I don't think you should force your beliefs on your children. Show them what you believe, sure, but let them make up their own minds when they're old enough to.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

*shrug*
I think it's more like sports teams to be honest, but it's a fair point. If those truths were indeed self evident then you shouldn't need to preach them.[...]

Fair enough, I suppose it depends on how cynical one is of the intentions of a person.

[...]That said, kids are something of a special case because, let's be honest, kids are idiots.

Agreed.

[Aclion]

I guess we're leaving aside the point that you cannot force a person to believe anything?

[Ethel mermania]

Pffft, the point of parenting is to produce competent adults who can survive on their own. 30 year olds living in mommies basement is a failure in parenting

No, that is not the point of parenting. The point of parenting is to raise your child or children into becoming successful adults and teaching them basic life necessities such as good behavior and moral judgement. Now I'm not sure how you define "successful" in this situation, but I know if I ever have a child or children of my own sometime in the future, I know I was "successful" in parenting them
if they stay out of trouble, show respect and generally do good in life. My sister is 22 years old and still stays home with our parents and I know with certainty our parents didn't fail in raising her. She's in college majoring in a good field and has a decent job working at a clothing store, all while still living home sweet home with our parents. Do you call all that a "failure in parenting?"

22 is not 30.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

I never experienced anything like this, as my parents are a farely non-observant Christian and an atheist, and rather reacted with disbelief when I informed them that I was converting to Nordic paganism (I still don't think they believe it.)
However, I did go to a catholic school and took the sacraments, and have done all I can to get my name removed from records. My parents did force me to take the sacraments because I couldn't continue at the school if I didn't (I was something of an agnostic at this point, I don't know about others but being forced to sing hymns and talk about God as a 6 year old turned me off him) but I got the impression that they didn't care either way what I did if it didn't mean I'd get kicked out of school for not doing them.

If I want to attend or perform an act of pagan worship and my child in the future doesn't want to partake, I won't force them to. Likewise, if they want to convert to another religion I won't stop them as long as I can be assured their's no one pressuring them to change. I'll happily educate them about my own religious beliefs, however if they don't want to follow them that's fine.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

That's pretty presumptuous don't you think? I don't think the majority, nor even a large minority would have something like that in mind.

*shrug*
I think it's more like sports teams to be honest, but it's a fair point. If those truths were indeed self evident then you shouldn't need to preach them.

That said, kids are something of a special case because, let's be honest, kids are idiots.

No!
It's nothing like sports teams.

A child of mine can worship the great turtle in the sky who delivers judgement in the form of turtle rainbow dust which can either kill or cure, but if he/she supports Manchester city then we're going to have problems.

[Alvecia]

*shrug*
I think it's more like sports teams to be honest, but it's a fair point. If those truths were indeed self evident then you shouldn't need to preach them.

That said, kids are something of a special case because, let's be honest, kids are idiots.

No!
It's nothing like sports teams.

A child of mine can worship the great turtle in the sky who delivers judgement in the form of turtle rainbow dust which can either kill or cure, but if he/she supports Manchester city then we're going to have problems.

Filthy red

[Greater vakolicci haven]

No!
It's nothing like sports teams.

A child of mine can worship the great turtle in the sky who delivers judgement in the form of turtle rainbow dust which can either kill or cure, but if he/she supports Manchester city then we're going to have problems.

Filthy red

ewwwwwwww

[The Alma Mater]

The premise is a little ridiculous since other than abuse what can anyone else do about what happens within any given household?

If parents have a belief and teach that belief as part of their lifestyle, even to the extent of denying the child dinner for not giving thanks to Lord Spaghetti for the Sauce, then all power to them.

Lets not have parenting police going from house to house monitoring bedtimes to ensure the child isn't being forced to dread the chance of dying in their sleep

Well you have just said that other than stopping abuse there is nothing the government can Dom about things other than abuse in the household. This is something I agree with. You then listed an example which constitutes religious abuse. Denying a child food should be done only for the most serious offences e.g. petty theft, getting arrested, kicking down a door. Not following an approved religious belief is certainly not an acceptable justification and thus it counts as abuse.

Telling a kid he by default deserves to burn in hell for all eternity and needs to atone to try to avoid said fate certainly counts as abuse as well.

[Alvecia]

Well you have just said that other than stopping abuse there is nothing the government can Dom about things other than abuse in the household. This is something I agree with. You then listed an example which constitutes religious abuse. Denying a child food should be done only for the most serious offences e.g. petty theft, getting arrested, kicking down a door. Not following an approved religious belief is certainly not an acceptable justification and thus it counts as abuse.

Telling a kid he by default deserves to burn in hell for all eternity and needs to atone to try to avoid said fate certainly counts as abuse as well.

I know of several atheists that still struggle with the fear of hell long after they've given up faith. It can be pretty traumatising for a kid.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

[...]Raise them in their own religion? Sure, I guess, but that they feel the need to is a pretty strong indictment of their beliefs.

What indictment do you believe it demonstrate?

That they doubt their beliefs will be convincing to someone capable of critical thought.

[Ethel mermania]

Well you have just said that other than stopping abuse there is nothing the government can Dom about things other than abuse in the household. This is something I agree with. You then listed an example which constitutes religious abuse. Denying a child food should be done only for the most serious offences e.g. petty theft, getting arrested, kicking down a door. Not following an approved religious belief is certainly not an acceptable justification and thus it counts as abuse.

Telling a kid he by default deserves to burn in hell for all eternity and needs to atone to try to avoid said fate certainly counts as abuse as well.

What if the kid was a serial liar or a thief? Would using the threat of hell as a punishment for the deeds to make them stop be ok?

[Alvecia]

Telling a kid he by default deserves to burn in hell for all eternity and needs to atone to try to avoid said fate certainly counts as abuse as well.

What if the kid was a serial liar or a thief? Would using the threat of hell as a punishment for the deeds to make them stop be ok?

Probably not tbh. Eternal torment is still overkill for lying thieves.

[Minzerland II]

What indictment do you believe it demonstrate?

Presumably that they're not confident that their beliefs will speak for themselves.

Ha. That is pretty funny. I suppose teaching science and raising children to take into consideration science, only to find that they aren't convinced of it, is rather telling of the weakness of science too.

What indictment do you believe it demonstrate?

That they doubt their beliefs will be convincing to someone capable of critical thought.

>Implying children are as perfectly reasonable and capable of critical thought as adults are

[Alvecia]

Presumably that they're not confident that their beliefs will speak for themselves.

Ha. That is pretty funny. I suppose teaching science and raising children to take into consideration science, only to find that they aren't convinced of it, is rather telling of the weakness of science too.

Follow the conversation chain a little further and you'll probably find my response to that.

[Minzerland II]

Ha. That is pretty funny. I suppose teaching science and raising children to take into consideration science, only to find that they aren't convinced of it, is rather telling of the weakness of science too.

Follow the conversation chain a little further and you'll probably find my response to that.

I don't think anyone claimed their ideas to be self-evident truths.