Should Parents Have the Right to Force Religious Belief?

[Nordengrund]

I'm a Christian, and while I intend to raise my kids (if I ever decide to have any) Christian, I will not force it on them and also encourage them to think for themselves and explore other views.

[Katganistan]

You are aware that Halloween, although long commercialised, is a Christian feast day right? It starts Allhallowtide, the three-day period in the liturgical year dedicated to remembering the faithful departed, maytrs and saints. While you are under no obligation to actually do anything, traditionally, people attend church services, and light candles on the graves of the dead as well as eating more vegetarian foods.

Well, the Catholic church certainly bans this because people see this as a way to promote darkness into the world because everything is displayed in a gothic way. So, during that time people who are part of the Catholic community take All Saints and Day of the Dead as a special day to reflect on all the people who died especially their loved ones so this is present in real Catholic countries like Mexico, Spain, Italy etc.

Really? Catholic Church bans Halloween?
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print ... -halloween
http://www.uscatholic.org/church/2009/0 ... l-memories
https://www.thoughtco.com/should-cathol ... een-542788
http://lifeteen.com/blog/catholic-answe ... questions/

I think you're mistaken.

[Katganistan]

Err...the Catholic Church hasn't banned Halloween at all. I was born and raised Catholic and i can remember that every year my family and I would go out Trick-or-Treating at night.

I'm sure there are some denominations of Christianity that go all "it's the devil's night" about it, if not necessarily the whole church

But not Catholicism. Which is specifically what was named.

[Salus Maior]

The only thing I know of which says Halloween is evil devil stuff is a Chick Tract I watched the Bible Reloaded read on YouTube. Then again Jack Chick used to think tha D&D was literal devil worship and Wiccans could actually summon demons at will.

So... yeah.

I read those once. I laughed so hard.

Yeah, Chick tracts are pretty laughable. And a lot of the time they make everything Catholicism's fault xP

[Katganistan]

I read those once. I laughed so hard.

Yeah, Chick tracts are pretty laughable. And a lot of the time they make everything Catholicism's fault xP

Of course. According to Chick Catholicism actually venerates Belial, or some such nonsense.

[Thermodolia]

I'm sure there are some denominations of Christianity that go all "it's the devil's night" about it, if not necessarily the whole church

But not Catholicism. Which is specifically what was named.

There are a few Catholics that went nuts over the holiday though, they where also the same ones that didn't celebrate Christmas.

[Serrus]

I read those once. I laughed so hard.

Yeah, Chick tracts are pretty laughable. And a lot of the time they make everything Catholicism's fault xP

I read the evolution one and my reaction was:

...

Yeah, Chick tracts are pretty laughable. And a lot of the time they make everything Catholicism's fault xP

Of course. According to Chick Catholicism actually venerates Belial, or some such nonsense.

I'm up for having lunch with a demon anytime,

[The Rich Port]

Yeah, Chick tracts are pretty laughable. And a lot of the time they make everything Catholicism's fault xP

I read the evolution one and my reaction was:

...

Of course. According to Chick Catholicism actually venerates Belial, or some such nonsense.

I'm up for having lunch with a demon anytime,

If I had dinner with a succubus I'd be too rustled to eat.

http://pa1.narvii.com/5773/272df1e08bdc ... 6d7_hq.gif

[Katganistan]

But not Catholicism. Which is specifically what was named.

There are a few Catholics that went nuts over the holiday though, they where also the same ones that didn't celebrate Christmas.

Catholics not celebrating Christmas? NOPE.
You have your Christians sects mixed up.

[The Holy Therns]

Parents are going to impart some of their values onto their child either way, and there's hardly anything wrong with that. "Force", of course not, but there's nothing wrong with attempting to encourage your child towards a worldview you feel is morally correct.

[Solomons Land]

Is it right for a parent to make their religous beliefs (or nonbelief) a rule in the household? If one believes that they've found the way to salvation and true happiness, they're likely going to want to share that with their offspring, just like when parents tell their children about their own experiences to teach them a lesson and make them less likely to repeat their mistakes. A parent, ideally, wants what they see is best for them.

Let's say (for the sake of noting that this convesation applies to any religious belief, I'll use meme-cult placeholders) there's a family of four. Mom, dad, two tween sons. They are devout worshippers of, uh, I don't know, Shrek? And because they are sure about the Ogrelord being the true path to salvation, they taught their children all about him. The first son was unsure of Shrek's existance, while the second son believed immediately and happily followed. The first discovered the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and felt the hole of confusion in his life was filled with this newfound joy. So he tells his parents about his new floating pasta lord.
His parents grounded him for blaspheming Shrek and insisted he was brainwashed, even though he converted on his own will. They banned him from attending mass to praise the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and wouldn't let him do any of the acts to follow the new religion. If his friends believed in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, he had to tell them to pretend to be worshippers of Shrek since they wouldn't be allowed to hang out if his parents learned of it. They did everything in their power to try to make the child believe in Shrek again.

Are these parents, no matter what you replace 'Shrek' and 'Flying Spaghetti Monster' with, doing the right thing? Should it be legal, or is this an injustice?

Honestly, while I'm Christian, I'm not going to put pressure on my children, if I have them, to believe in Jesus Christ. Religious belief shouldn't be something that's forced on you, but something you genuinely find joy in and genuinely believe without being pressured. God knows whether you really love Him or not. So I'd tell them about God, but not react in a hostile way if they doubt.

If my child came to me and said they wanted to convert to Islam, a religion that, keep in mind, I am strongly against, here's what'd happen. If I could tell they made the decision by their own desire and not pressuring, they are well informed on Muslim beliefs by their own research into the texts, and they're older than 14 (age may vary depending on religion) - then I'd accept it. I'd be very upset for a while. But I wouldn't try to stop them from pursuing what they believe is the truth, because if they passed my requirements, they did this on their own. They're my child, and I'd still love them and treat them like I did before. If they didn't fit the requirements, then I'd go over Islam's beliefs and values with them, reading straight from the text, and showing them what Shariah law is like. This way, they see what it'd really be like from an unbiased source, untouched by both my disapproval of Islam and a street preacher's advocacy of it.

They should know, however, that if they start supporting terrorism, or doing or justifying fucked up activities because "Muhammad said it was okay", I'm not going to defend them in it. And, if they're supporting terrorism, I'm turning them in. If Christians can ignore verses that would result in hurting people for the sake of not hurting people, so should they. Same with any other religion, it's not a pass to break the law. Any child of mine would understand why having respect for other people is important, so I doubt I'd even hopefully have to deal with that.

But if I see it's a cult where their leader is a man with shades with an obsession with socialism who likes giving people Kool Aid, I'm grabbing my child's arm and getting the fuck out of there.

Not force, but just raise them that way, at around twelve years old the key to their beliefs should be unlocked so that they have the ability to convert to whatever or be athiest. But I will not support child abuse

I agree, but I think that even at 12 m, you are not fully developed and that, even if you furvently believe in, let's just say Shrek, you should always keep an open mind twords Flying Spaghetti Monsterism.

[Salus Maior]

There are a few Catholics that went nuts over the holiday though, they where also the same ones that didn't celebrate Christmas.

Catholics not celebrating Christmas? NOPE.
You have your Christians sects mixed up.

He's probably talking about schismatic Catholic groups.

They can get very weird. There's one based in Spain that made Hitler a Saint.

[Salus Maior]

You do realize that it was chosen at the same time as Samhain, and that Easter gets its name from the Celtic goddess Eostre whose symbols were rabbits and eggs, and that Christmas should have been in the spring which is lambing season, but instead was placed on the calendar at the same time as Saturnalia, a holiday in which people gave each other gifts.....

The church was big on cultural appropriation of holidays and telling pagans that they should be celebrating Christianity instead.

WOW ! You mean... a bit of Christianity is based on Paganism ?!? Ha ha ha....You can't deny what comes to you naturally. Even though you may resist "sin", it is part of the very air you breathe ! Why not give in ? Yes, that may mean hypocrisy, but who cares ? Your very stance that you are fighting "sin" IS hypocrisy !! You're not fighting it, you're LOVING it, INDULGING in it !! Give in ! Fuck who you want to and just manage not to do the "serious sins" and avoid jail.

He's not a Christian you know.

And appropriating certain holidays and changing their meaning and practice to the point that they're not the same holiday anymore is not "basing" it on paganism.

[The Black Forrest]

Maybe they lapse in order to get a lap dance?

*summons Guards* Take him away.

*wakes up and notices the cell*

What again?!?!?!?!

*Sits against one wall and starts bouncing a ball off the floor which hits the wall and returns*

[Publica]

*summons Guards* Take him away.

*wakes up and notices the cell*

What again?!?!?!?!

*Sits against one wall and starts bouncing a ball off the floor which hits the wall and returns*

As long as you don't start digging tunnels I'm sure you'll be fine.

[Katganistan]

WOW ! You mean... a bit of Christianity is based on Paganism ?!? Ha ha ha....You can't deny what comes to you naturally. Even though you may resist "sin", it is part of the very air you breathe ! Why not give in ? Yes, that may mean hypocrisy, but who cares ? Your very stance that you are fighting "sin" IS hypocrisy !! You're not fighting it, you're LOVING it, INDULGING in it !! Give in ! Fuck who you want to and just manage not to do the "serious sins" and avoid jail.

He's not a Christian you know.

And appropriating certain holidays and changing their meaning and practice to the point that they're not the same holiday anymore is not "basing" it on paganism.

Who's not a Christian?

[Salus Maior]

He's not a Christian you know.

And appropriating certain holidays and changing their meaning and practice to the point that they're not the same holiday anymore is not "basing" it on paganism.

Who's not a Christian?

Oh, are you a Christian?

I may have mixed you up with someone else.

[Sovaal]

You do realize that it was chosen at the same time as Samhain, and that Easter gets its name from the Celtic goddess Eostre whose symbols were rabbits and eggs, and that Christmas should have been in the spring which is lambing season, but instead was placed on the calendar at the same time as Saturnalia, a holiday in which people gave each other gifts.....

The church was big on cultural appropriation of holidays and telling pagans that they should be celebrating Christianity instead.

WOW ! You mean... a bit of Christianity is based on Paganism ?!? Ha ha ha....You can't deny what comes to you naturally. Even though you may resist "sin", it is part of the very air you breathe ! Why not give in ? Yes, that may mean hypocrisy, but who cares ? Your very stance that you are fighting "sin" IS hypocrisy !! You're not fighting it, you're LOVING it, INDULGING in it !! Give in ! Fuck who you want to and just manage not to do the "serious sins" and avoid jail.

What? How in the hell is the incorporation of Pagan holidays into Christianity "sinful"? Might as well change the day names and burn down Rome as well.

[Publica]

WOW ! You mean... a bit of Christianity is based on Paganism ?!? Ha ha ha....You can't deny what comes to you naturally. Even though you may resist "sin", it is part of the very air you breathe ! Why not give in ? Yes, that may mean hypocrisy, but who cares ? Your very stance that you are fighting "sin" IS hypocrisy !! You're not fighting it, you're LOVING it, INDULGING in it !! Give in ! Fuck who you want to and just manage not to do the "serious sins" and avoid jail.

What? How in the hell is the incorporation of Pagan holidays into Christianity "sinful"? Might as well change the day names and burn down Rome as well.

I think Faustian is just trying to live up to the name.

[Publica]

What? How in the hell is the incorporation of Pagan holidays into Christianity "sinful"? Might as well change the day names and burn down Rome as well.

There is several reasons. The old Pagan holidays was NOT for Jesus Christ. They were Saturnalia which got turned into Christmas and Oastra which got turned into Easter. So celebrating both holidays on a Pagan day of celebration drags Jesus through the filth and muck of Paganism.
The times which are more consistent with Judaism would be at different times. You stole holidays Pagans could celebrate and did it knowing you could eventually convince people that it was a "Christian" holiday.
I don't celebrate Christian holidays and it would be reasonable to ask you not to celebrate Pagan holidays.

A large number of people don't celebrate either Easter or Christmas as religious holidays, but as times to get together with family. Also, just because the dates and some of the traditions were appropriated, doesn't make the holidays not Christian, it merely demonstrates how Christianity integrated or was integrated into the lives of those who previously worshipped pagan gods.

[Salus Maior]

A large number of people don't celebrate either Easter or Christmas as religious holidays, but as times to get together with family. Also, just because the dates and some of the traditions were appropriated, doesn't make the holidays not Christian, it merely demonstrates how Christianity integrated or was integrated into the lives of those who previously worshipped pagan gods.

Listen... Are you going to bow to Saturn ? No ? Don't celebrate it.

Every day is a time of some pagan practice. Either way, you lot would find some way to complain.

And yeah, observing the resurrection and birth of Christ is "bowing down to Saturn". What a stupid argument you're making.

The only way you're going to be 'bowing down' to pagan gods is if you're actually worshiping pagan gods intentionally. Obviously.

[Reploid Productions]

Religious appropriation of other religions' holidays is kinda veering away from the topic of parents teaching their children religion and the manner through which this instruction is delivered.

[Salus Maior]

Every day is a time of some pagan practice. Either way, you lot would find some way to complain.

And yeah, observing the resurrection and birth of Christ is "bowing down to Saturn". What a stupid argument you're making.

The only way you're going to be 'bowing down' to pagan gods is if you're actually worshiping pagan gods intentionally. Obviously.

Saturn was and is a Pagan god. Keep your Christian brainwashing to yourself.

Saturn is a planet that God liked so He put a ring on it.

Sorry, pagans lost the culture wars back in the day. People abandoned those gods in favor of conversion to Christianity and so they took their holidays with them and likewise converted them.

You gonna be bitter about what happened over a thousand years ago?

[Publica]

Religious appropriation of other religions' holidays is kinda veering away from the topic of parents teaching their children religion and the manner through which this instruction is delivered.

Ah. In that case I'm open to continuing this debate in TGs.

[Salus Maior]

Religious appropriation of other religions' holidays is kinda veering away from the topic of parents teaching their children religion and the manner through which this instruction is delivered.

Ah. In that case I'm open to continuing this debate in TGs.

It's not that great an argument, nor is it going anywhere particularly intelligent especially considering Faust's last post. You can if you want but I'm fine with it dying.