[Burma/Myanmar] Rohingya genocide/ethnic cleansing scandal

[Eibenland]

Apparently, the Canadian government will be speaking up for the Rohingya.

While I approve of her intentions, I feel that this decision would probably be met with a lot of hostility among many Canadians, and will probably contribute to Mr. Scheer becoming Prime Minister in 2019 or so.

Why would standing up for the Rohingya be met with hostility?

[Gauthier]

Apparently, the Canadian government will be speaking up for the Rohingya.

While I approve of her intentions, I feel that this decision would probably be met with a lot of hostility among many Canadians, and will probably contribute to Mr. Scheer becoming Prime Minister in 2019 or so.

Why would standing up for the Rohingya be met with hostility?

Because they're Muslims and therefore terrorists, according to some people.

[Risottia]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-41315924

What did Suu Kyi say in her the speech?

The Myanmar government does not use the term Rohingya - calling the group Bengali Muslims instead - and Ms Suu Kyi did not do so in her speech.

Delivering her address in a tone of measured defiance, she said she and her government "condemn all human rights violations and unlawful violence".

Among the key points:

She did not address allegations against the military, saying only that there had been "no armed clashes or clearance operations" since 5 September.
She said most Muslims had decided to stay in Rakhine and that indicated the situation may not be so severe.
She said she wanted to speak to both Muslims that had fled and those that had stayed to find out what was at the root of the crisis.
She said the government had made efforts in recent years to improve living conditions for the Muslims living in Rakhine: providing healthcare, education and infrastructure.
She also said that all refugees in Bangladesh would be able to return after a process of verification.

Basically, she says "no no, we are the goodies, I don't know what happened before Sept. 5th, everything is mostly fine, but we will check on those pesky refugees who might want to enter our country, UN observers welcome but I've got better stuff to do than attending to the General Assembly, nothing to see here".

Somewhere between evasive statement and downright cover-up.

[Gauthier]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-41315924

What did Suu Kyi say in her the speech?

The Myanmar government does not use the term Rohingya - calling the group Bengali Muslims instead - and Ms Suu Kyi did not do so in her speech.

Delivering her address in a tone of measured defiance, she said she and her government "condemn all human rights violations and unlawful violence".

Among the key points:

She did not address allegations against the military, saying only that there had been "no armed clashes or clearance operations" since 5 September.
She said most Muslims had decided to stay in Rakhine and that indicated the situation may not be so severe.
She said she wanted to speak to both Muslims that had fled and those that had stayed to find out what was at the root of the crisis.
She said the government had made efforts in recent years to improve living conditions for the Muslims living in Rakhine: providing healthcare, education and infrastructure.
She also said that all refugees in Bangladesh would be able to return after a process of verification.

Basically, she says "no no, we are the goodies, I don't know what happened before Sept. 5th, everything is mostly fine, but we will check on those pesky refugees who might want to enter our country, UN observers welcome but I've got better stuff to do than attending to the General Assembly, nothing to see here".

Somewhere between evasive statement and downright cover-up.

And praying the rest of the world thinks "They're just dirty Muslims, fuck 'em."

[Risottia]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-41315924



Basically, she says "no no, we are the goodies, I don't know what happened before Sept. 5th, everything is mostly fine, but we will check on those pesky refugees who might want to enter our country, UN observers welcome but I've got better stuff to do than attending to the General Assembly, nothing to see here".

Somewhere between evasive statement and downright cover-up.

And praying the rest of the world thinks "They're just dirty Muslims, fuck 'em."

You know, this will be the first time I won't complain too much about Saudi Arabia and Egypt sitting in the current UN Human Rights Council.

[The Censorate]

Security operations of Burmese forces to combat Bengali settler violence and terrorist activity which has plagued Rakhine does not constitute ethnic cleansing/genocide. While it is regrettable that the authorities of Burma did not take greater care to ensure counter-insurgency operations would not affect civilians in they that they have and caused a massive refugee crisis in the process, their actions appear justified when one considers the conditions Burma has faced in this particular province.

Of course, the Rohingya lobby tries to paint a different picture, first by using Turkish media and then progressing to giving fictional accounts to Western media in order to undermine the effectiveness of government operations.

[Risottia]

Security operations of Burmese forces to combat Bengali settler violence and terrorist activity which has plagued Rakhine does not constitute ethnic cleansing/genocide. While it is regrettable that the authorities of Burma did not take greater care to ensure counter-insurgency operations would not affect civilians in they that they have and caused a massive refugee crisis in the process, their actions appear justified when one considers the conditions Burma has faced in this particular province.

Some source?

[Proctopeo]

And praying the rest of the world thinks "They're just dirty Muslims, fuck 'em."

You know, this will be the first time I won't complain too much about Saudi Arabia and Egypt sitting in the current UN Human Rights Council.

>accepting that two countries with abysmal human rights records are in the HRC because Muslims are being killed for being Muslims on the other side of the continent
wew lad

[The Censorate]

Security operations of Burmese forces to combat Bengali settler violence and terrorist activity which has plagued Rakhine does not constitute ethnic cleansing/genocide. While it is regrettable that the authorities of Burma did not take greater care to ensure counter-insurgency operations would not affect civilians in they that they have and caused a massive refugee crisis in the process, their actions appear justified when one considers the conditions Burma has faced in this particular province.

Some source?

Sources on the constant terrorist activity of mujahideen elements in Rakhine or for the counter-insurgency operations of the Burmese security forces?

[Risottia]

Some source?

Sources on the constant terrorist activity of mujahideen elements in Rakhine or for the counter-insurgency operations of the Burmese security forces?

Sources about your claims, especially source about ethnical cleansing NOT happening.

[Risottia]

You know, this will be the first time I won't complain too much about Saudi Arabia and Egypt sitting in the current UN Human Rights Council.

>accepting that two countries with abysmal human rights records are in the HRC because Muslims are being killed for being Muslims on the other side of the continent
wew lad

Well, for once they will be of some use there and not just a worldwide embarassment.

[The Censorate]

Sources on the constant terrorist activity of mujahideen elements in Rakhine or for the counter-insurgency operations of the Burmese security forces?

Sources about your claims, especially source about ethnical cleansing NOT happening.

The lack of any proof other than videos showing refugees crying on camera in the special facilities that have been set up to protect them which does not prove anything other than that a refugee crisis has been caused by terrorist activity. Of course the Burmese army is going to engage in counter-insurgency operations in the villages when terrorist elements use them to hide their supplies and weaponry.

EDIT1; More specifically, all articles on the subject even those with 'damning' evidence like the one in the OP only show burned villages and the villagers themselves being relocated rather roughly elsewhere. No hard, solid proof of mass ethnic cleansing, no killing of women or children. The villages are being evacuated, then burned, to deprive the terrorists from being supplied by friendly villagers and to make them pay a heavy cost for their guerilla operations. Notice how many of the reported casualties appear to be males of military age and their deaths occurred during 'crossfires'. It is not uncommon for collateral casualties of that type in military operations.

[Proctopeo]

>accepting that two countries with abysmal human rights records are in the HRC because Muslims are being killed for being Muslims on the other side of the continent
wew lad

Well, for once they will be of some use there and not just a worldwide embarassment.

Minimal use at best, because I don't see what they can do besides saying "genociding Muslims is a bad thing".

[Luziyca]

>accepting that two countries with abysmal human rights records are in the HRC because Muslims are being killed for being Muslims on the other side of the continent
wew lad

Well, for once they will be of some use there and not just a worldwide embarassment.

I'm pretty sure Egypt is not as horrible as Saudi Arabia when it comes to human rights. Though admittedly, the bar has been set very low.

Apparently, the Canadian government will be speaking up for the Rohingya.

While I approve of her intentions, I feel that this decision would probably be met with a lot of hostility among many Canadians, and will probably contribute to Mr. Scheer becoming Prime Minister in 2019 or so.

Why would standing up for the Rohingya be met with hostility?

You should probably read some Facebook comments sections about that. I feel that many Canadians probably view all Muslims as "terrorists."

[Saiwania]

I don't have enough context or information to really comment on this. There might be a good reason that Myanmar's government doesn't take kindly to the Rohingya or there might not. I lean towards being in favor of Myanmar's government.

[Proctopeo]

Well, for once they will be of some use there and not just a worldwide embarassment.

I'm pretty sure Egypt is not as horrible as Saudi Arabia when it comes to human rights. Though admittedly, the bar has been set very low.

More like the bar is buried a few feet underground. Egypt is abysmal, but not quite as abysmal as Saudi Arabia is.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Sources: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-41224108 and http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-41187517

This is a disgrace in my opinion, especially when a Nobel Peace Prize laureate is acting too slowly to respond to clearly accurate reports of ethnic cleansing against the Rohingya Muslims. If I recall correctly, the military junta stepped aside last year.

Even the BBC has caught it all on camera: there is no denying that: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-41189564

What are your thoughts on this?

Edit: I’m going to use both terms because it seems genocide and ethnic cleansing are being used interchangeably (source, source and source), but neither seems to downplay the fact that it is still repression against people solely on the basis of their religion.

I would be willing to sacrifice my life for them. Any takers ?

Unless you have combat training, don't.

[Ifreann]

Well, for once they will be of some use there and not just a worldwide embarassment.

I'm pretty sure Egypt is not as horrible as Saudi Arabia when it comes to human rights. Though admittedly, the bar has been set very low.

Egypt is pretty shit.

[Risottia]

Sources about your claims, especially source about ethnical cleansing NOT happening.

The lack of any proof other than videos showing refugees crying on camera in the special facilities that have been set up to protect them which does not prove anything other than that a refugee crisis has been caused by terrorist activity. Of course the Burmese army is going to engage in counter-insurgency operations in the villages when terrorist elements use them to hide their supplies and weaponry.

EDIT1; More specifically, all articles on the subject even those with 'damning' evidence like the one in the OP only show burned villages and the villagers themselves being relocated rather roughly elsewhere. No hard, solid proof of mass ethnic cleansing, no killing of women or children. The villages are being evacuated, then burned, to deprive the terrorists from being supplied by friendly villagers and to make them pay a heavy cost for their guerilla operations. Notice how many of the reported casualties appear to be males of military age and their deaths occurred during 'crossfires'. It is not uncommon for collateral casualties of that type in military operations.

I see: you don't have proof or sources or whatever, just claims about your own claims.

Plus an admission to Burmese military evicting people from their homes and burning them as to "make them pay", without even bothering to conduct a trial to determine whether they're guilty or not, just on ethnical basis.

Thank you for confirming ipso facto the ethnical cleansing is taking place indeed.

Dismissed.

I'm pretty sure Egypt is not as horrible as Saudi Arabia when it comes to human rights. Though admittedly, the bar has been set very low.

I raise the whole Giulio Regeni affair.

[The Censorate]

snip

A nice way to twist my post.

I said the army is evacuating the villages to make the rebels pay a heavy price for using guerilla tactics. The villagers themselves are not harmed and are transported to special locations from where they can return to their area of residence when the violence has subdued. This does not constitute ethnic cleansing.

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

Plus an admission to Burmese military evicting people from their homes and burning them as to "make them pay", without even bothering to conduct a trial to determine whether they're guilty or not, just on ethnical basis.

It's almost like they are looking at how the West keeps failing to beat Muslims over and over and then doing the opposite, which is obviously stupid.

[Soviet-mongol]

Is the Burmese government pro-chinese? If yes, many things were have sence.

[Sovaal]

Is the Burmese government pro-chinese? If yes, many things were have sence.

The Chinese are hardly the only ones to persecute their religious minorities.

[Soviet-mongol]

Is the Burmese government pro-chinese? If yes, many things were have sence.

The Chinese are hardly the only ones to persecute their religious minorities.

you should have a more wider picture of the situation. The whole genocide started when a Rohinga separatist group attack Burmese police killing 70 persons. This organisation is backed by Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. It seems the US and Trump used the Rohingas as a tool against the pro-chinese Burmese government.

The same way like the US created ISIS to destroy the Syrian secular government.

[Vassenor]

The Chinese are hardly the only ones to persecute their religious minorities.

you should have a more wider picture of the situation. The whole genocide started when a Rohinga separatist group attack Burmese police killing 70 persons. This organisation is backed by Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. It seems the US and Trump used the Rohingas as a tool against the pro-chinese Burmese government.

The same way like the US created ISIS to destroy the Syrian secular government.

Gonna need some sauce on those claims, buddy.