The Christian Discussion thread IX: Pelagius Rising.

[Salus Maior]

So, um, the Pope's being accused of heresy now. Anybody wanna shed some light on this? I'm yet to read the accusation (or even Amoris laetitia).

Some people really dislike the idea of divorced/remarried people being allowed to receive communion as implied by Francis.
Of course, those same people had no problem whatsoever with the idea of his prececessor that the Church should protect priests who molest children,

Just to show what it TRULY important to the faithful. DIvorce is obviously a worse sin than molestation.

For one, it's not personal. It's a matter of Doctrine, hence the accusation of heresy.

It's a separate thing from Church corruption, which also needs to be corrected but a letter like this wouldn't be used for that.

[War Gears]

If it's so readily available information, you should be able to cite it relatively easy. Your interpretation of the death of Codreanu is seriously skewed. There is a lot of doubt and skepticism that he attempted to escape imprisonment, almost all sources agree on that and his actions and words to the Legionnaires also make it sound like he had no intentions of trying to flee, and he was not declared a traitor or imprisoned for that, but because of "slander."

Cristea kept his loyalty to King Carol II throughout his rule. In March 1937, as the King attempted to suppress the influence of the fascist movement known as the Iron Guard, Cristea responded to the request sent by the Tătărescu government on limiting the relationship between the clergy and the Iron Guard. Cristea invoked a Holy Synod which banned clergy from joining the Legion and disallowed political demonstrations and symbols in the churches.[16]

That doesn't say anything about occult rituals, it pretty much just reinforces what was already established (the King wanted to crush the Iron Guard and Cristea went along with it). I'm not sure what you're trying to do, but you're making a weaker and weaker case for your position by the post.

[Tarsonis]

So I know we should pray for High Hefners' soul, but I'm finding myself biased.

[Salus Maior]

So I know we should pray for High Hefners' soul, but I'm finding myself biased.

Feeling that way a bit myself.

[Maineiacs]

So I know we should pray for High Hefners' soul, but I'm finding myself biased.

Feeling that way a bit myself.

All the more reason to do so.

[Diopolis]

So, um, the Pope's being accused of heresy now. Anybody wanna shed some light on this? I'm yet to read the accusation (or even Amoris laetitia).

He's being accused of spreading heresy. There are seven errors he's accused of encouraging. All of them have to do with some variant on moral theology. They're not wrong.

Some people really dislike the idea of divorced/remarried people being allowed to receive communion as implied by Francis.
Of course, those same people had no problem whatsoever with the idea of his prececessor that the Church should protect priests who molest children,

Just to show what it TRULY important to the faithful. DIvorce is obviously a worse sin than molestation.

For one, it's not personal. It's a matter of Doctrine, hence the accusation of heresy.

It's a separate thing from Church corruption, which also needs to be corrected but a letter like this wouldn't be used for that.

Not to mention, Benedict did more to protect minors than any of the other popes. He just gets a bad rap in comparison to his more liberal successor(who was actually a massive step in the wrong direction on that issue). I wonder why...

[Maineiacs]

So, um, the Pope's being accused of heresy now. Anybody wanna shed some light on this? I'm yet to read the accusation (or even Amoris laetitia).

He's being accused of spreading heresy. There are seven errors he's accused of encouraging. All of them have to do with some variant on moral theology. They're not wrong.

For one, it's not personal. It's a matter of Doctrine, hence the accusation of heresy.

It's a separate thing from Church corruption, which also needs to be corrected but a letter like this wouldn't be used for that.

Not to mention, Benedict did more to protect minors than any of the other popes. He just gets a bad rap in comparison to his more liberal successor(who was actually a massive step in the wrong direction on that issue). I wonder why...

I think it's just lovely that the moral black hole that is American partisan politics has intruded itself into Catholic theology.

If you feel that the Pope is a heretic, feel free to leave the Church in protest; no one's forcing you to stay. I'm sure you'll find the Baptists more to your liking.

[Tarsonis]

He's being accused of spreading heresy. There are seven errors he's accused of encouraging. All of them have to do with some variant on moral theology. They're not wrong.

Not to mention, Benedict did more to protect minors than any of the other popes. He just gets a bad rap in comparison to his more liberal successor(who was actually a massive step in the wrong direction on that issue). I wonder why...

I think it's just lovely that the moral black hole that is American partisan politics has intruded itself into Catholic theology.

If you feel that the Pope is a heretic, feel free to leave the Church in protest; no one's forcing you to stay. I'm sure you'll find the Baptists more to your liking.

Yeah that's not how this works. We're not Protestants, we don't just leave

[Salus Maior]

He's being accused of spreading heresy. There are seven errors he's accused of encouraging. All of them have to do with some variant on moral theology. They're not wrong.

Not to mention, Benedict did more to protect minors than any of the other popes. He just gets a bad rap in comparison to his more liberal successor(who was actually a massive step in the wrong direction on that issue). I wonder why...

I think it's just lovely that the moral black hole that is American partisan politics has intruded itself into Catholic theology.

If you feel that the Pope is a heretic, feel free to leave the Church in protest; no one's forcing you to stay. I'm sure you'll find the Baptists more to your liking.

It has nothing to do with American politics. This is about the ancient doctrine of the Church, and many are rightfully concerned about Francis's apparent willingness to change it or otherwise support contrary ideas.

Sorry, no. Maybe the solution for some people is to abandon something when it doesn't go 100% their way (a la every democrat in Hollywood saying they'll move to Canada if Trump wins. Which they have yet to do.) but obviously plenty of people have deeper loyalties and more maturity than that. The Pope is not God, he can be criticized if one thinks he's doing the wrong thing.

[The Alexanderians]

He's being accused of spreading heresy. There are seven errors he's accused of encouraging. All of them have to do with some variant on moral theology. They're not wrong.

Not to mention, Benedict did more to protect minors than any of the other popes. He just gets a bad rap in comparison to his more liberal successor(who was actually a massive step in the wrong direction on that issue). I wonder why...

I think it's just lovely that the moral black hole that is American partisan politics has intruded itself into Catholic theology.

If you feel that the Pope is a heretic, feel free to leave the Church in protest; no one's forcing you to stay. I'm sure you'll find the Baptists more to your liking.

That's not how religion works (it might be for Protestants for all I know though, but its certainly not how Catholic Church works), if someone is in your church saying something or encouraging things counter to established doctrine then they are at fault not the church at large. If there is something wrong in your religion you're supposed to try and change it not get wishy washy and defect at the first sign of trouble. This has nothing to do with the nightmare that is American politics, in fact what you're suggesting (throwing a fit and leaving cause things aren't going your way) is more in line with the American political climate.

[Tarsonis]

I think it's just lovely that the moral black hole that is American partisan politics has intruded itself into Catholic theology.

If you feel that the Pope is a heretic, feel free to leave the Church in protest; no one's forcing you to stay. I'm sure you'll find the Baptists more to your liking.

That's not how religion works (it might be for Protestants for all I know though, but its certainly not how Catholic Church works), if someone is in your church saying something or encouraging things counter to established doctrine then they are at fault not the church at large. If there is something wrong in your religion you're supposed to try and change it not get wishy washy and defect at the first sign of trouble. This has nothing to do with the nightmare that is American politics, in fact what you're suggesting (throwing a fit and leaving cause things aren't going your way) is more in line with the American political climate.

Well I mean, leaving a church you don't like is a protestant tradition.

[Luminesa]

I think it's just lovely that the moral black hole that is American partisan politics has intruded itself into Catholic theology.

If you feel that the Pope is a heretic, feel free to leave the Church in protest; no one's forcing you to stay. I'm sure you'll find the Baptists more to your liking.

It has nothing to do with American politics. This is about the ancient doctrine of the Church, and many are rightfully concerned about Francis's apparent willingness to change it or otherwise support contrary ideas.

Sorry, no. Maybe the solution for some people is to abandon something when it doesn't go 100% their way (a la every democrat in Hollywood saying they'll move to Canada if Trump wins. Which they have yet to do.) but obviously plenty of people have deeper loyalties and more maturity than that. The Pope is not God, he can be criticized if one thinks he's doing the wrong thing.

The Pope is not changing anything. This is something that has been refuted time and time again. He does make some suggestions that do come out of left-field at times, sure, but he's not changing church doctrine.

[Luminesa]

He's being accused of spreading heresy. There are seven errors he's accused of encouraging. All of them have to do with some variant on moral theology. They're not wrong.

Not to mention, Benedict did more to protect minors than any of the other popes. He just gets a bad rap in comparison to his more liberal successor(who was actually a massive step in the wrong direction on that issue). I wonder why...

I think it's just lovely that the moral black hole that is American partisan politics has intruded itself into Catholic theology.

If you feel that the Pope is a heretic, feel free to leave the Church in protest; no one's forcing you to stay. I'm sure you'll find the Baptists more to your liking.

No, we're not going to make Diopolis leave the Church. That would be wrong of us, as Catholics. Rather, we should seek to bolster each other in faith, and pray for the Holy Father.

[Salus Maior]

It has nothing to do with American politics. This is about the ancient doctrine of the Church, and many are rightfully concerned about Francis's apparent willingness to change it or otherwise support contrary ideas.

Sorry, no. Maybe the solution for some people is to abandon something when it doesn't go 100% their way (a la every democrat in Hollywood saying they'll move to Canada if Trump wins. Which they have yet to do.) but obviously plenty of people have deeper loyalties and more maturity than that. The Pope is not God, he can be criticized if one thinks he's doing the wrong thing.

The Pope is not changing anything. This is something that has been refuted time and time again. He does make some suggestions that do come out of left-field at times, sure, but he's not changing church doctrine.

I know. Which is why I also tacked on "otherwise support contrary ideas".

[The Alexanderians]

That's not how religion works (it might be for Protestants for all I know though, but its certainly not how Catholic Church works), if someone is in your church saying something or encouraging things counter to established doctrine then they are at fault not the church at large. If there is something wrong in your religion you're supposed to try and change it not get wishy washy and defect at the first sign of trouble. This has nothing to do with the nightmare that is American politics, in fact what you're suggesting (throwing a fit and leaving cause things aren't going your way) is more in line with the American political climate.

Well I mean, leaving a church you don't like is a protestant tradition.

How's the song go "you change your mind like a girl changes clothes". When they all behave similar on the surface I suppose that's how it would work by default.

[Pasong Tirad]

He's being accused of spreading heresy. There are seven errors he's accused of encouraging. All of them have to do with some variant on moral theology. They're not wrong.

Not to mention, Benedict did more to protect minors than any of the other popes. He just gets a bad rap in comparison to his more liberal successor(who was actually a massive step in the wrong direction on that issue). I wonder why...

I think it's just lovely that the moral black hole that is American partisan politics has intruded itself into Catholic theology.

If you feel that the Pope is a heretic, feel free to leave the Church in protest; no one's forcing you to stay. I'm sure you'll find the Baptists more to your liking.

The only divide I've ever seen is between the traditionalists of the SSPX variety and, well, almost everybody else in the Church.
and also the philippine catholic church is still sorta divided between those wanting duterte to stop the killings and the more quiet priests

Well I mean, leaving a church you don't like is a protestant tradition.

How's the song goAs the philosopher Katy Perry once said, "you change your mind like a girl changes clothes". When they all behave similar on the surface I suppose that's how it would work by default.

Fixed.

[Thermodolia]

It has nothing to do with American politics. This is about the ancient doctrine of the Church, and many are rightfully concerned about Francis's apparent willingness to change it or otherwise support contrary ideas.

Sorry, no. Maybe the solution for some people is to abandon something when it doesn't go 100% their way (a la every democrat in Hollywood saying they'll move to Canada if Trump wins. Which they have yet to do.) but obviously plenty of people have deeper loyalties and more maturity than that. The Pope is not God, he can be criticized if one thinks he's doing the wrong thing.

The Pope is not changing anything. This is something that has been refuted time and time again. He does make some suggestions that do come out of left-field at times, sure, but he's not changing church doctrine.

I thought that there was something to do with a chair and that when he's on it everything he says is gods word or something like that

[Salus Maior]

The Pope is not changing anything. This is something that has been refuted time and time again. He does make some suggestions that do come out of left-field at times, sure, but he's not changing church doctrine.

I thought that there was something to do with a chair and that when he's on it everything he says is gods word or something like that

*sigh* No, that's not how it works.

[Dylar]

I thought that there was something to do with a chair and that when he's on it everything he says is gods word or something like that

*sigh* No, that's not how it works.

Should've posted a "That's not how the Force works" meme...but it's too late now...

[Salus Maior]

*sigh* No, that's not how it works.

Should've posted a "That's not how the Force works" meme...but it's too late now...

Damn, you're right.

[Thermodolia]

I thought that there was something to do with a chair and that when he's on it everything he says is gods word or something like that

*sigh* No, that's not how it works.

Well can you explain how this whole chair thing works then?

[Tarsonis]

*sigh* No, that's not how it works.

Well can you explain how this whole chair thing works then?

"The doctrine of Papal infallibility teaches that the Holy Spirit preserves the Pope from error, when he speaks with the officaility of his office on doctrines of moral and guidance for the true Church."

However, this is a very rare occurrence, and has only officially been invoked twice in church history.

Essentially, in order for something the Pope says to be infallible, it has to be declared infallible through special proclamation. It's not that every word he says is the direct word of God delivered two way radio.

[Pasong Tirad]

Well can you explain how this whole chair thing works then?

"The doctrine of Papal infallibility teaches that the Holy Spirit preserves the Pope from error, when he speaks with the officaility of his office on doctrines of moral and guidance for the true Church."

However, this is a very rare occurrence, and has only officially been invoked twice in church history.

Essentially, in order for something the Pope says to be infallible, it has to be declared infallible through special proclamation. It's not that every word he says is the direct word of God delivered two way radio.

And unofficially, maybe a couple more times.

[Tarsonis]

"The doctrine of Papal infallibility teaches that the Holy Spirit preserves the Pope from error, when he speaks with the officaility of his office on doctrines of moral and guidance for the true Church."

However, this is a very rare occurrence, and has only officially been invoked twice in church history.

Essentially, in order for something the Pope says to be infallible, it has to be declared infallible through special proclamation. It's not that every word he says is the direct word of God delivered two way radio.

And unofficially, maybe a couple more times.

Technically those were made before the Doctrine was made "official"

[War Gears]

(a la every democrat in Hollywood saying they'll move to Canada if Trump wins. Which they have yet to do.)

Sort of like all the Christians who claimed they'd do that too if gay marriage got passed.

So, um, the Pope's being accused of heresy now. Anybody wanna shed some light on this? I'm yet to read the accusation (or even Amoris laetitia).

He's being accused of spreading heresy. There are seven errors he's accused of encouraging. All of them have to do with some variant on moral theology. They're not wrong.

For one, it's not personal. It's a matter of Doctrine, hence the accusation of heresy.

It's a separate thing from Church corruption, which also needs to be corrected but a letter like this wouldn't be used for that.

Not to mention, Benedict did more to protect minors than any of the other popes. He just gets a bad rap in comparison to his more liberal successor(who was actually a massive step in the wrong direction on that issue). I wonder why...

What did Benedict do more for minors in contrast to Francis?