The Christian Discussion thread IX: Pelagius Rising.

[Arcanstotska]

Yay, another CDT!

[Arcanstotska]

GREETINGS MY FELLOW CHRISTIANS. AIN'T NO PARTY LIKE A CHRISTIAN PARTY.

#Jesusisthebest

[Pasong Tirad]

Why yes, good sir. *exhales pipesmoke* Long live the king!

Which one, the Spanish or the Belgian? All other kings are not Catholic iirc.

Or do you want your own Texan monarch?

[The Blaatschapen]

Which one, the Spanish or the Belgian? All other kings are not Catholic iirc.

Or do you want your own Texan monarch?

While president Carter was an interesting figure, he's not Catholic

[Sovaal]

Which one, the Spanish or the Belgian? All other kings are not Catholic iirc.

Or do you want your own Texan monarch?

Would the king of Texas wear a giant, bejeweled cowboy hat or giant, bejeweled cowboy boots?

[The Blaatschapen]

Or do you want your own Texan monarch?

Would the king of Texas wear a giant, bejeweled cowboy hat or giant, bejeweled cowboy boots?

Both.

And big too. He's from Texas after all.

[Salus Maior]

Jolly good

I personally see the value of monarchy, however I find the risks don't outweigh the reward so to speak. An absolute monarchy requires the existence of absolute virtue, to protect the rights of the common man. Because such a person does not, and arguably cannot, exist apart from divine grace, absolute power should never be vested in a single individual.

There's more forms of Monarchy than absolute monarchy.

[Salus Maior]

Really? I've heard he wasn't very good.

From a Romanian, even

King Micheal is seen as a symbol of the nation by many. Const doesn't like King Micheal because said King tried to block a Communist majority in parliament.

Didn't he also do a lot of other corrupt things?

Or was that his predecessor?

[Salus Maior]

It's not Christian sharia.

Anyway, have fun with the Secular liberals that despise everything you stand for then.

They don't despise everything I stand for, like free will. Christ was not a tyrant and Christianity is not a tyranny. If people don't wish to follow the way of God, that is their right. And in this regard Paul reminds us to not worry. Because make no mistake, God is not mocked by their rejection, they reap what they sow .

That's great for God, but that doesn't exactly help with moral injustices down here.

[Cote Acreole]

They don't despise everything I stand for, like free will. Christ was not a tyrant and Christianity is not a tyranny. If people don't wish to follow the way of God, that is their right. And in this regard Paul reminds us to not worry. Because make no mistake, God is not mocked by their rejection, they reap what they sow .

That's great for God, but that doesn't exactly help with moral injustices down here.

It seems that those afflicted by these injustices have God's favor, that is not necessarily shown in this finite existence but in the everlasting world to come. (Recall also the Temptation in the Desert)
1 Corinthians 1:26-31
26 Consider your own call, brothers and sisters:[g] not many of you were wise by human standards,[h] not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, things that are not, to reduce to nothing things that are, 29 so that no one[i] might boast in the presence of God. 30 He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31 in order that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in[j] the Lord.”

[United Muscovite Nations]

King Micheal is seen as a symbol of the nation by many. Const doesn't like King Micheal because said King tried to block a Communist majority in parliament.

Didn't he also do a lot of other corrupt things?

Or was that his predecessor?

That was his predecessor and father, Carol II.

[War Gears]

Really? I've heard he wasn't very good.

From a Romanian, even

King Micheal is seen as a symbol of the nation by many. Const doesn't like King Micheal because said King tried to block a Communist majority in parliament.

Why would a Christian king want to allow atheist republicans to achieve power? Furthermore, why should he?

[United Muscovite Nations]

King Micheal is seen as a symbol of the nation by many. Const doesn't like King Micheal because said King tried to block a Communist majority in parliament.

Why would a Christian king want to allow atheist republicans to achieve power? Furthermore, why should he?

I fully agree; the communist coup was illegitimate.

[Salus Maior]

Why would a Christian king want to allow atheist republicans to achieve power? Furthermore, why should he?

I fully agree; the communist coup was illegitimate.

Although ironically better for the Romanian Orthodox Church.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I fully agree; the communist coup was illegitimate.

Although ironically better for the Romanian Orthodox Church.

Not better than the monarchy, no. The Romanian Church wasn't persecuted heavily in the communist period, but it was still persecuted.

[Salus Maior]

That's great for God, but that doesn't exactly help with moral injustices down here.

It seems that those afflicted by these injustices have God's favor, that is not necessarily shown in this finite existence but in the everlasting world to come. (Recall also the Temptation in the Desert)
1 Corinthians 1:26-31
26 Consider your own call, brothers and sisters:[g] not many of you were wise by human standards,[h] not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, things that are not, to reduce to nothing things that are, 29 so that no one[i] might boast in the presence of God. 30 He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31 in order that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in[j] the Lord.”

That does not mean that Christians should stand idly by when things that are sacred are violated and suffering happens.

When Christ went into the Temple and saw the markets and money-changing and corruption happening within, what did He do? Did He stop and pray for them to stop? Did He just say "Oh, they'll get justice in the end"? No, He made a whip and chased them out and trashed their tables and tossed their money on the ground.

Obviously we can't use force in every situation where injustice or sacrilege happens, nor should that ever be our first response, but Christians are absolutely meant to fight injustice when it occurs. We should never just rest on our laurels and ignore wrongdoing in the world out of the thought that "Oh, God will fix it in the end".

[Salus Maior]

Although ironically better for the Romanian Orthodox Church.

Not better than the monarchy, no. The Romanian Church wasn't persecuted heavily in the communist period, but it was still persecuted.

Communist Romania, as I understand, essentially gave the Orthodox back all the churches the Austrians converted into Catholic Churches. That's pretty significantly pro-Orthodox.

[Cote Acreole]

It seems that those afflicted by these injustices have God's favor, that is not necessarily shown in this finite existence but in the everlasting world to come. (Recall also the Temptation in the Desert)
1 Corinthians 1:26-31
26 Consider your own call, brothers and sisters:[g] not many of you were wise by human standards,[h] not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, things that are not, to reduce to nothing things that are, 29 so that no one[i] might boast in the presence of God. 30 He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31 in order that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in[j] the Lord.”

That does not mean that Christians should stand idly by when things that are sacred are violated and suffering happens.

When Christ went into the Temple and saw the markets and money-changing and corruption happening within, what did He do? Did He stop and pray for them to stop? Did He just say "Oh, they'll get justice in the end"? No, He made a whip and chased them out and trashed their tables and tossed their money on the ground.

Obviously we can't use force in every situation where injustice or sacrilege happens, nor should that ever be our first response, but Christians are absolutely meant to fight injustice when it occurs. We should never just rest on our laurels and ignore wrongdoing in the world out of the thought that "Oh, God will fix it in the end".

No, of course not; the poor are probably the reason why some rich are saved for instance. The cause of salvation for some can give way to the salvation of others but not everyone's cross is the same. God is not mocked because his Will, has been, is, and will be done and none can stop it; we are called to trust it.

Jesus could have used an earthly kingdom to spread his message to the ends of the earth and stop social injustices, yet we see he dealt with people as he came by them; he was more concerned about feeding people's spirits for Kingdom come, than getting people out of their social and/or economic ruts (though it doesn't mean that it never does)

[The Parkus Empire]

They demonize the translations precisely because they are accurate. Liberal Christian translations tend to be...liberal.

They don't demonize other equally accurate translations, however. New Roman Standard Version is probably more accurate than either of those, and they don't demonize it.

That's probably because no one knows what that is.

[The Parkus Empire]

I don't trust Christian sharia

It's not Christian sharia.

Anyway, have fun with the Secular liberals that despise everything you stand for then.

Christ's message of mercy and forgiveness cannot be the basis for a penal code, that doesn't even make sense. It's a perversion. I am more comfortable with people who have no regard for the Gospel, than those who twist it for purposes it is not intended for. Christians in the United States are the main propagators of inequity, they have no business whatsoever imposing a penal code on non-Christians to get them to conform with Christianity.

[The Parkus Empire]

I fully agree; the communist coup was illegitimate.

Although ironically better for the Romanian Orthodox Church.

Materially, not spiritually. Spiritually it has caused enormous damage to the Romanian Church, damage which continues to this day. More than any other Orthodox, the Romanian Church was adversely affected by communism.

[Hakons]

It's not Christian sharia.

Anyway, have fun with the Secular liberals that despise everything you stand for then.

Christ's message of mercy and forgiveness cannot be the basis for a penal code, that doesn't even make sense. It's a perversion. I am more comfortable with people who have no regard for the Gospel, than those who twist it for purposes it is not intended for. Christians in the United States are the main propagators of inequity, they have no business whatsoever imposing a penal code on non-Christians to get them to conform with Christianity.

This is a poor claim. Christians in the United States are some of the most charitable and helpful people in the nation. Every day thousands of Churches send out volunteers, feed the hungry, house the homeless, and collect food and materials. Currently, there is a massive effort by American Christians to relieve the Southern U.S. and the Caribbean after the hurricanes that swept through. It has been American Christians that have pushed for social and economic reforms, most notably abolitionism. I find it strange that a Christian who follows the commandments of God would rather see atheists, who seek to destroy the Church and scatter the congregation, in power than God-fearing Christians. It is simply obvious that a government run by Christians is going to be the closest to the Gospel.

[Salus Maior]

It's not Christian sharia.

Anyway, have fun with the Secular liberals that despise everything you stand for then.

Christ's message of mercy and forgiveness cannot be the basis for a penal code, that doesn't even make sense. It's a perversion. I am more comfortable with people who have no regard for the Gospel, than those who twist it for purposes it is not intended for. Christians in the United States are the main propagators of inequity, they have no business whatsoever imposing a penal code on non-Christians to get them to conform with Christianity.

Did I say penal code? I said Constitution. But even then I don't agree with you.

Christianity is a religion of mercy and forgiveness but it also values justice.When a man confesses to murder or another similarly grievous sin to their priest, the priest will often tell them to turn themselves in to the authorities as part of their penance, and will even deny communion to them until then (this is something both Catholics and Orthodox do). If Christianity did not value earthly justice, the man would simply be absolved and everyone would move on. God would judge him in the end, so why have him answer to earthly authorities?

Thankfully that is not the case. While God will judge all in the end, He also values justice done here on Earth in our time.

In the Conservative Morality thread, you lamented on how the governing parties in the U.S have no solid guiding sense of morality, and yet when I suggest a solution to that, to establish the only actual true morality as the guiding moral backbone of the nation, you recoil and criticize.

Although ironically better for the Romanian Orthodox Church.

Materially, not spiritually. Spiritually it has caused enormous damage to the Romanian Church, damage which continues to this day. More than any other Orthodox, the Romanian Church was adversely affected by communism.

Spiritual damage such as?

[Salus Maior]

Christ's message of mercy and forgiveness cannot be the basis for a penal code, that doesn't even make sense. It's a perversion. I am more comfortable with people who have no regard for the Gospel, than those who twist it for purposes it is not intended for. Christians in the United States are the main propagators of inequity, they have no business whatsoever imposing a penal code on non-Christians to get them to conform with Christianity.

This is a poor claim. Christians in the United States are some of the most charitable and helpful people in the nation. Every day thousands of Churches send out volunteers, feed the hungry, house the homeless, and collect food and materials. Currently, there is a massive effort by American Christians to relieve the Southern U.S. and the Caribbean after the hurricanes that swept through. It has been American Christians that have pushed for social and economic reforms, most notably abolitionism. I find it strange that a Christian who follows the commandments of God would rather see atheists, who seek to destroy the Church and scatter the congregation, in power than God-fearing Christians. It is simply obvious that a government run by Christians is going to be the closest to the Gospel.

I think he's specifically referring to die-hard Republicans and the Republican party. Which, true enough, is very problematic and mostly just Christian for the sake of virtue-signaling.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Christ's message of mercy and forgiveness cannot be the basis for a penal code, that doesn't even make sense. It's a perversion. I am more comfortable with people who have no regard for the Gospel, than those who twist it for purposes it is not intended for. Christians in the United States are the main propagators of inequity, they have no business whatsoever imposing a penal code on non-Christians to get them to conform with Christianity.

Did I say penal code? I said Constitution. But even then I don't agree with you.

Christianity is a religion of mercy and forgiveness but it also values justice.When a man confesses to murder or another similarly grievous sin to their priest, the priest will often tell them to turn themselves in to the authorities as part of their penance, and will even deny communion to them until then (this is something both Catholics and Orthodox do). If Christianity did not value earthly justice, the man would simply be absolved and everyone would move on. God would judge him in the end, so why have him answer to earthly authorities?

Thankfully that is not the case. While God will judge all in the end, He also values justice done here on Earth in our time.

In the Conservative Morality thread, you lamented on how the governing parties in the U.S have no solid guiding sense of morality, and yet when I suggest a solution to that, to establish the only actual true morality as the guiding moral backbone of the nation, you recoil and criticize.

Materially, not spiritually. Spiritually it has caused enormous damage to the Romanian Church, damage which continues to this day. More than any other Orthodox, the Romanian Church was adversely affected by communism.

Spiritual damage such as?

Secret police infiltrating the priesthood; priests acting as informants, etc.