The Christian Discussion thread IX: Pelagius Rising.

[Salus Maior]

And what benefit is that?

You’re Catholic you should know. I’m not going to play this game with you. This is Church doctrine, ratified at V2.

I'm not yet. And I'm sincerely asking.

And it's V2 teaching that I've been hung up on all this time, there's a lot I love about Catholicism and its tradition but I find some of its more modern leanings and teachings frankly...indefensible in light of historic Christian teaching and Scripture.

[Tarsonis]

You’re Catholic you should know. I’m not going to play this game with you. This is Church doctrine, ratified at V2.

I'm not yet. And I'm sincerely asking.

And it's V2 teaching that I've been hung up on all this time, there's a lot I love about Catholicism and its tradition but I find some of its more modern leanings and teachings frankly...indefensible in light of historic Christian teaching and Scripture.

“The seven sacraments touch all the stages and all the important moments of Christian life:1 they give birth and increase, healing and mission to the Christian's life of faith. ”

The sacraments are rituals in which we engage both physically and mystically with the Spirit of God. The chiefmost of the sacraments is the Eucharist toward which all other sacraments are ordered. They are rituals that nurture the faith of the Church and the individual.


Protestants being bereft of most sacraments beyond Baptism and Marriage do not receive the fullness of faithfulness that the Catholic Church enjoys. However we acknowledge the validity of their baptism and the presence of the spirit at work within the seperated communtiities, imperfect as it may be.

Sacraments do not grant salvation. They sustain our faith throughout our lives. Only the grace of God grants salvation.

[Lux Pulchrae]

I'm not yet. And I'm sincerely asking.

And it's V2 teaching that I've been hung up on all this time, there's a lot I love about Catholicism and its tradition but I find some of its more modern leanings and teachings frankly...indefensible in light of historic Christian teaching and Scripture.

“The seven sacraments touch all the stages and all the important moments of Christian life:1 they give birth and increase, healing and mission to the Christian's life of faith. ”

The sacraments are rituals in which we engage both physically and mystically with the Spirit of God. The chiefmost of the sacraments is the Eucharist toward which all other sacraments are ordered. They are rituals that nurture the faith of the Church and the individual.


Protestants being bereft of most sacraments beyond Baptism and Marriage do not receive the fullness of faithfulness that the Catholic Church enjoys. However we acknowledge the validity of their baptism and the presence of the spirit at work within the seperated communtiities, imperfect as it may be.

Sacraments do not grant salvation. They sustain our faith throughout our lives. Only the grace of God grants salvation.

>sacraments do not grant salvation.

What about baptism or the BLESSED SACRAMENT? Without which we would not be saved and unable to be with Christ. Apart from that I wouldn't disagree

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Out of curiosity, who or what brought you to the faith, CDT?

I was baptised as an infant, but I didn’t actually take the faith seriously until the beginning of last year. It was through the works of Wolfsheim on /lit/ 4chan, Bishop Robert Barron on YouTube and this discussion thread (particularly the members Tarsonis, UMN and Constantinopolis).

Raised an atheist, used to be virulently atheist, but a combination of Russian nationalism, innate knowledge that God exists and the soul-reinforcing beauty of Orthodox sermons brought me to Orthodoxy.

Edit: My parents are perfectly fine with it, they're atheist but they respect the Church.

Changing a religion because of national identity is the most conformist, spineless, borg-like thing I can envision.

[Hakons]

Raised an atheist, used to be virulently atheist, but a combination of Russian nationalism, innate knowledge that God exists and the soul-reinforcing beauty of Orthodox sermons brought me to Orthodoxy.

Edit: My parents are perfectly fine with it, they're atheist but they respect the Church.

Changing a religion because of national identity is the most conformist, spineless, borg-like thing I can envision.

Why is that? You can't spout insults without explaining your position.

[Luminesa]

Yes.

“It follows that the separated Churches(23) and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.”

Then why bother with either Sacrament? Or with the Catholic Church at all? Why bother even seeking it out.

Because it’s through the Sacraments that we best understand the Kingdom of Heaven, and the plan that God wishes to fulfill in us, to make us like Him.

[Luminesa]

You’re Catholic you should know. I’m not going to play this game with you. This is Church doctrine, ratified at V2.

I'm not yet. And I'm sincerely asking.

And it's V2 teaching that I've been hung up on all this time, there's a lot I love about Catholicism and its tradition but I find some of its more modern leanings and teachings frankly...indefensible in light of historic Christian teaching and Scripture.

Like...what? I mean, it changed a bit of the liturgy, but the document itself affirms all of its previous teachings about the Sacraments.

[Mladorossiya]

Changing a religion because of national identity is the most conformist, spineless, borg-like thing I can envision.

Why so vehement? You've got to understand that not everyone is an individualist.

[Tarsonis]

“The seven sacraments touch all the stages and all the important moments of Christian life:1 they give birth and increase, healing and mission to the Christian's life of faith. ”

The sacraments are rituals in which we engage both physically and mystically with the Spirit of God. The chiefmost of the sacraments is the Eucharist toward which all other sacraments are ordered. They are rituals that nurture the faith of the Church and the individual.


Protestants being bereft of most sacraments beyond Baptism and Marriage do not receive the fullness of faithfulness that the Catholic Church enjoys. However we acknowledge the validity of their baptism and the presence of the spirit at work within the seperated communtiities, imperfect as it may be.

Sacraments do not grant salvation. They sustain our faith throughout our lives. Only the grace of God grants salvation.

>sacraments do not grant salvation.

What about baptism or the BLESSED SACRAMENT? Without which we would not be saved and unable to be with Christ. Apart from that I wouldn't disagree

Baptism alone does not grant salvation neither does the Eucharist. Baptism confers the regeneration that we might live and take part in the other sacraments and in the church, marking us as a priest of the universe church.

The Eucharist is the “source and summit of the Christian life”. By all manner are we called to the alter of the Lord, to consume the blessed sacrament and commune with the divine.

But these do not convey salvation. These sustain the Christian life, and point the sinner towards Heaven. Salvation comes only from the grace of God, through the sacrifice of Christ.

[Tarsonis]

I’m in the middle of moving/heading out of town, won’t really be in contact for a week or so. So since we’re at 499 I went ahead and made the new thread.

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