The Christian Discussion thread IX: Pelagius Rising.

[Constantinopolis]

Now, on a completely different note... Stonok, I just want to make sure you saw this earlier post of mine. I think we share a common appreciation for beautiful hymns.

While we wait, what's everyone's favorite hymn?

Mine's either Will the Circle Be Unbroken or Be Thou My Vision.

Probably the latter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMttnek4868

How did I miss answering this question before? I love sharing hymns.

So... let's see... Agni Parthene (O Virgin Pure) is definitely a strong contender to be my favourite hymn. So is the Troparion of the Holy Cross. And the soul-shaking Canon of Holy Saturday, of course.

But in the end, none of those can be my absolute favourite. Because my absolute favourite is the hymn that we sing when we triumphantly proclaim the Resurrection:

The Paschal Stichera

Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and upon those in the tombs bestowing life!

[The Alexanderians]

Yes. And? We don't believe in papal impeccability.

Yeah, I know. I just wanted an excuse to bring that up, because it's extremely amusing.

No, that would be the pope who blew the Vatican treasury on a party to watch a bunch of naked women crawling around on the floor scrabbling after chestnuts. Or possibly the one who tried his predecessor's corpse.

No one show this to HBO, they'd have a field day.

Game of Popes.

I like the pirate pope the best. Or the one who supposedly became friends with a succubus. Likely a smear by one of his political enemies...but considering that was one of the better popes you can't help but wonder what if it was somehow true...

[Stonok]

Now, on a completely different note... Stonok, I just want to make sure you saw this earlier post of mine. I think we share a common appreciation for beautiful hymns.

How did I miss answering this question before? I love sharing hymns.

So... let's see... Agni Parthene (O Virgin Pure) is definitely a strong contender to be my favourite hymn. So is the Troparion of the Holy Cross. And the soul-shaking Canon of Holy Saturday, of course.

But in the end, none of those can be my absolute favourite. Because my absolute favourite is the hymn that we sing when we triumphantly proclaim the Resurrection:

The Paschal Stichera

Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and upon those in the tombs bestowing life!

I think I either missed it or only skimmed at first, but I just listened to about three minutes of each one you linked. The first one is beautiful no doubt, but isn't my preferred type of hymn (Mostly because of the language barrier), but the latter two, especially the Canon of Holy Saturday, is absolutely lovely!

[Tarsonis]

Not at all. Dogma does not change . We may not have fully recognized it and defined it, but it doesn't change. It was always true, whether we were aware of it or not.

...what? If Catholic dogma doesn't change, and if Orthodox dogma doesn't change, then how come we ended up with different dogmas?

Perhaps a better way of saying it is "Truth" does not change. There is one Ontological and Objective Truth. It is this Truth we codify in Dogma. Any Dogma that gets codified was always Truth, it just wasn't codified yet.

Or is this the reason why you guys insist - despite a thousand years of theological arguments - that somehow your dogma and our dogma aren't actually different after all? Like how you claim that the Creed with the Filioque and the Creed without the Filioque somehow mean the same thing and are both equally true? Because you don't want to admit that our dogmas are indeed different, since that would imply that someone changed theirs?

On the contrary, cognitive bias is a real thing. Depending on circumstance, development, and background we can understand the same concepts but in different ways. As it sits, I don't particularly see our Dogmas which might be nuanced, as contradicting. That said, I think there'st toxicity inherent to the discussion. As you said earlier about Orthodox rejecting the toll houses because it sounds "too Catholic." That's a toxic perception to have about the pursuit of divine truth. We've been separate for so long, there's opinions being made about something that sounds to "catholic" and not because it's true or not.

I notice a general trend in Catholicism to cling to very vague phrases used by the Fathers as if they represent explicit endorsements of very specific Catholic teachings. Calling Mary "innocent" and "most pure" supposedly means believing in the Immaculate Conception, calling the Bishop of Rome the successor of St. Peter supposedly means believing in Papal Supremacy, and so on.

Look, you can't deduce a highly specific belief from a very general statement made by the Fathers. We have no problem using the exact same language that the Fathers used with respect to Mary the Theotokos. We do have a problem with going far beyond that language in defining very specific and technical dogmas.

Orthodoxy, in other words, is usually opposed to taking something that was said in a very general and vague sense by the Fathers and trying to make it more specific. We think that amounts to inventing new dogmas.

Here I think you're betraying a lack of understanding of the Latin Perspective. The Catholic Church actively teaches about the power of reason in deducing cosmic Truth. These dogmas are not produced merely from vague or general statements of the Church Fathers, but rather a concert of Reasonable Deductions, established doctrines, and the words of the early church Fathers. These statements are not the Foundational proof of the Doctrine, but evidence the Doctrines were alive in the minds of the early Church Fathers in some capacity, even if they didn't fully comprehend or had fully developed the doctrines themselves.

[Pope Joan]

Now, on a completely different note... Stonok, I just want to make sure you saw this earlier post of mine. I think we share a common appreciation for beautiful hymns.

How did I miss answering this question before? I love sharing hymns.

So... let's see... Agni Parthene (O Virgin Pure) is definitely a strong contender to be my favourite hymn. So is the Troparion of the Holy Cross. And the soul-shaking Canon of Holy Saturday, of course.

But in the end, none of those can be my absolute favourite. Because my absolute favourite is the hymn that we sing when we triumphantly proclaim the Resurrection:

The Paschal Stichera

Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and upon those in the tombs bestowing life!

Some of these are among my old favorites, along with the last verse of How Firm a Foundation' lately I have been singing Precious Lord, Take My Hand, and Hymn of Promise (In The Bulb there is a Flower) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpqHE84LAAw

[Stonok]

Does anyone here have a religion outside of mainstream Christianity that they have something of an obsession with? I mentioned I really liked a Mormon hymn earlier. I mentioned that to a few people. I also have done as much research into Mormon history as I can without purchasing a library of books on it. I'm intrigued by them, though I dislike their doctrines. I've read about the Nauvoo Legion, many of their leading figures, I purchased a Book of Mormon through a third-party (So as to avert missionaries at my door.). Anyhow, I enjoy reading about them, and discussing them, though I don't believe a word from their mouths or their 'Prophet', but it seems I've talked about their history so much some suspect that I'm beginning to become one, which couldn't be farther from the truth.

I'm just curious if anyone here sort of has a similar interest in a particular faith or religion even though you believe them to be false.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Does anyone here have a religion outside of mainstream Christianity that they have something of an obsession with? I mentioned I really liked a Mormon hymn earlier. I mentioned that to a few people. I also have done as much research into Mormon history as I can without purchasing a library of books on it. I'm intrigued by them, though I dislike their doctrines. I've read about the Nauvoo Legion, many of their leading figures, I purchased a Book of Mormon through a third-party (So as to avert missionaries at my door.). Anyhow, I enjoy reading about them, and discussing them, though I don't believe a word from their mouths or their 'Prophet', but it seems I've talked about their history so much some suspect that I'm beginning to become one, which couldn't be farther from the truth.

I'm just curious if anyone here sort of has a similar interest in a particular faith or religion even though you believe them to be false.

I've actually taken an interest in Mormon history too lately. I've read a little on the origins of their faith. Constantinopolis and I have discussed possible origins of it in-depth. Even though it's almost certainly not true, it's an interesting mythology Smith created.

[Stonok]

Does anyone here have a religion outside of mainstream Christianity that they have something of an obsession with? I mentioned I really liked a Mormon hymn earlier. I mentioned that to a few people. I also have done as much research into Mormon history as I can without purchasing a library of books on it. I'm intrigued by them, though I dislike their doctrines. I've read about the Nauvoo Legion, many of their leading figures, I purchased a Book of Mormon through a third-party (So as to avert missionaries at my door.). Anyhow, I enjoy reading about them, and discussing them, though I don't believe a word from their mouths or their 'Prophet', but it seems I've talked about their history so much some suspect that I'm beginning to become one, which couldn't be farther from the truth.

I'm just curious if anyone here sort of has a similar interest in a particular faith or religion even though you believe them to be false.

I've actually taken an interest in Mormon history too lately. I've read a little on the origins of their faith. Constantinopolis and I have discussed possible origins of it in-depth. Even though it's almost certainly not true, it's an interesting mythology Smith created.

Indeed. Joseph Smith may have been a liar, but he was exceptionally imaginative in creating his lies. And a brilliant synthesizer as well. If he weren't so bent on creating a religion, I think he could've gone on to be a big player in another field.

[Nordengrund]

Does anyone here have a religion outside of mainstream Christianity that they have something of an obsession with? I mentioned I really liked a Mormon hymn earlier. I mentioned that to a few people. I also have done as much research into Mormon history as I can without purchasing a library of books on it. I'm intrigued by them, though I dislike their doctrines. I've read about the Nauvoo Legion, many of their leading figures, I purchased a Book of Mormon through a third-party (So as to avert missionaries at my door.). Anyhow, I enjoy reading about them, and discussing them, though I don't believe a word from their mouths or their 'Prophet', but it seems I've talked about their history so much some suspect that I'm beginning to become one, which couldn't be farther from the truth.

I'm just curious if anyone here sort of has a similar interest in a particular faith or religion even though you believe them to be false.

I have a fascination with Jehova's Witnesses. I used to go to an Adventist school, and the JW's were an offshoot of them, so that probably explains why.

[ThePeacekeepers]

My reply to Tarsonis here.

1. Christ does in fact say they are to follow the orders of the office at the time since they were under the old law and breaking it was a sin. Matt 23:2-3

2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

But again he condemns their actions, and one of the things they do is enlarge the borders of their garments to be seen of men. Then when you put it with the other verse that go with it you get a full picture using the complete word of God that we have today.
Matt 23:4-9

4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Luke 20:45-47

45 Then in the audience of all the people he said unto his disciples,
46 Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;
47 Which devour widows' houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation.

Mark 12:38-40

38 And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,
39 And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts:
40 Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.

Luke 11:43-44

43 Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets.
44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.

Christ is explicitly stating in these passage what things they do that we are to beware of those who desire/love: The uppermost rooms at feasts, long fancy or ornate clothing and robes, long prayers, praise of men, highest seats in synagogues/church, devouring widows houses.
Now in the old testament they were commanded to wear a certain form of dress to serve the lord, but every jot and title of the old law is fulfilled in Christ. That includes the necessity for wearing a certain form of expensive clothing to serve and glorify the lord.
Matt 5:17-20

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Romans 6:14-15

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Galatians 3:10-12

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Galatians 3:22-25

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Hebrews 12:2

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

The whole law was fulfilled in Christ. The new law we are given teaches us to glorify the lord in other ways, not by making a show with long prayers and ornate clothing.
Matt 5:2-16

2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

1 Corinthians 10:31

31.Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

Everything we do is supposed to be to glorifying God. In the new testament we are told to be poor, meek, and humble.
James 5:1-6

5 Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.
3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.
4 Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.
5 Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.
6 Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.

Luke 16:19-25

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Matt 19:16-24

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

James 2:1-5

1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

1 timothy 6:7-12

7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

Ephesians 4:1-3

I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Luke 12:16-34

16 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:
17 And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.
22 And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.
23 The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.
24 Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?
25 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?
26 If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?
27 Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
28 If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?
29 And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.
30 For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.
31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.
32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

1 Peter 5:1-7

1The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being examples to the flock.
4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

James 4:10

Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Everything in the New testament states we are to dress modestly, be humble in all things, and be meek. Now all the things he warns against: wearing expensive clothing, making long prayers for a show, etc. You do, without cause to do so. You claim it comes from the old testament law. But the old testament law was fulfilled in Christ, the whole law not just one jot or tittle but every jot and tittle. You say you glorify God with these big shows, made not unto God but man, but you don't. You are instead provoking him to wrath. The new testament speaks out against making a show of your faith. In order for that practice to still be in effect it must be shown to be taught anywhere in the new testament by either Christ or the apostles. There is no such place.

You believe that the position of the high priests was a holy position which it was. But the position no longer exists it was fulfilled in Christ, our last High priest/priest. No other priesthood was created after Christ. The offices put into place were bishop pastor and deacon not priest or high priest. So at the same time the office was fulfilled so to were the customs practiced by that office, along with the rest of the old testament law.

2. I will discuss the rest of what you said after were done with main subject.

[Diopolis]

Not at all. Dogma does not change . We may not have fully recognized it and defined it, but it doesn't change. It was always true, whether we were aware of it or not.

...what? If Catholic dogma doesn't change, and if Orthodox dogma doesn't change, then how come we ended up with different dogmas?

Or is this the reason why you guys insist - despite a thousand years of theological arguments - that somehow your dogma and our dogma aren't actually different after all? Like how you claim that the Creed with the Filioque and the Creed without the Filioque somehow mean the same thing and are both equally true? Because you don't want to admit that our dogmas are indeed different, since that would imply that someone changed theirs?

Catholics believe that in the early church, the sense of the faith was no different than in the Catholic church as of 1954(at the time of the last dogmatic definition). However, due to imprecise terminology, the church at the time was unable to express the faith as clearly as it does now, which led to errors that were nearly indistinguishable from truth. As such, the church issued definitions using more precise formulations to safeguard her children from error. We believe that the Orthodox rejected these definitions in the guise of tradition, but in reality continue to persist in (mostly mid-medieval-era)errors.

[Diopolis]

Yes. And? We don't believe in papal impeccability.

Yeah, I know. I just wanted an excuse to bring that up, because it's extremely amusing.

No, that would be the pope who blew the Vatican treasury on a party to watch a bunch of naked women crawling around on the floor scrabbling after chestnuts. Or possibly the one who tried his predecessor's corpse.

No one show this to HBO, they'd have a field day.

Game of Popes.

It gets better: the six hundred years which separated them include a schism spurred on by the college of cardinals letting a bunch of political protestors into the papal winecellar(probably on accident), a pope Lando who started a war, lost, and then raised an army to try to personally retake the vatican, another pope who's name at the time of election was "Bjorn of battle", a pope who killed his predecessor, and a pope who sold the papacy, then declared war on the guy he sold it to and took it back. And that's just the beginning.

[Thermodolia]

But the Catholic Church and the Protestants think Orthodox are heretics

It's the circle of heressyyyyyyyyyyy....

Yup. Orthodox think Catholics and Protestants are Heretics, Catholics think Protestants are Heretics, Protestants think the Catholics are Heretics, And then you have the new Restorationists who think everyone is a Heretic, and so on and so forth...

It's a dance party and everyone's doing The Heresy

And then there's the Jews who say everyone is a heretic and only they are the original

[The Archregimancy]

I've actually taken an interest in Mormon history too lately. I've read a little on the origins of their faith. Constantinopolis and I have discussed possible origins of it in-depth. Even though it's almost certainly not true, it's an interesting mythology Smith created.

Indeed. Joseph Smith may have been a liar, but he was exceptionally imaginative in creating his lies. And a brilliant synthesizer as well. If he weren't so bent on creating a religion, I think he could've gone on to be a big player in another field.

Joseph Smith and L. Ron Hubbard....

David Miscavage has nastier lawyers than Thomas S. Monson, but otherwise; well.

[The Archregimancy]

I'm just curious if anyone here sort of has a similar interest in a particular faith or religion even though you believe them to be false.

Mandaeism.

For what it's worth, Joseph Smith and the LDS 'church' might have been spared a fair amount of embarrassment if only they'd been aware of contemporary efforts to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphs.

[Salus Maior]

Does anyone here have a religion outside of mainstream Christianity that they have something of an obsession with? I mentioned I really liked a Mormon hymn earlier. I mentioned that to a few people. I also have done as much research into Mormon history as I can without purchasing a library of books on it. I'm intrigued by them, though I dislike their doctrines. I've read about the Nauvoo Legion, many of their leading figures, I purchased a Book of Mormon through a third-party (So as to avert missionaries at my door.). Anyhow, I enjoy reading about them, and discussing them, though I don't believe a word from their mouths or their 'Prophet', but it seems I've talked about their history so much some suspect that I'm beginning to become one, which couldn't be farther from the truth.

I'm just curious if anyone here sort of has a similar interest in a particular faith or religion even though you believe them to be false.

I'm interested in brushing up on Islam and it's various sects. I mean, there's the two big ones (Sunni and Shi'a) but then there's tons of tiny ones and spinoffs.

[Pasong Tirad]

Does anyone here have a religion outside of mainstream Christianity that they have something of an obsession with? I mentioned I really liked a Mormon hymn earlier. I mentioned that to a few people. I also have done as much research into Mormon history as I can without purchasing a library of books on it. I'm intrigued by them, though I dislike their doctrines. I've read about the Nauvoo Legion, many of their leading figures, I purchased a Book of Mormon through a third-party (So as to avert missionaries at my door.). Anyhow, I enjoy reading about them, and discussing them, though I don't believe a word from their mouths or their 'Prophet', but it seems I've talked about their history so much some suspect that I'm beginning to become one, which couldn't be farther from the truth.

I'm just curious if anyone here sort of has a similar interest in a particular faith or religion even though you believe them to be false.

I like how the Bahá'í Faith basically believes that all religions before them are valid, and thus all of their holidays are valid. If I were to convert I can take time off on religious grounds for Christmas, the whole month of Ramadan, and every Sabbath.

[Tarsonis]

Yup. Orthodox think Catholics and Protestants are Heretics, Catholics think Protestants are Heretics, Protestants think the Catholics are Heretics, And then you have the new Restorationists who think everyone is a Heretic, and so on and so forth...

It's a dance party and everyone's doing The Heresy

And then there's the Jews who say everyone is a heretic and only they are the original

Yeah but pfft what do they know

[Stonok]

And then there's the Jews who say everyone is a heretic and only they are the original

Yeah but pfft what do they know

How to manage a banking account

[La Tierra Caliente]

Does anyone here have a religion outside of mainstream Christianity that they have something of an obsession with? I mentioned I really liked a Mormon hymn earlier. I mentioned that to a few people. I also have done as much research into Mormon history as I can without purchasing a library of books on it. I'm intrigued by them, though I dislike their doctrines. I've read about the Nauvoo Legion, many of their leading figures, I purchased a Book of Mormon through a third-party (So as to avert missionaries at my door.). Anyhow, I enjoy reading about them, and discussing them, though I don't believe a word from their mouths or their 'Prophet', but it seems I've talked about their history so much some suspect that I'm beginning to become one, which couldn't be farther from the truth.

I'm just curious if anyone here sort of has a similar interest in a particular faith or religion even though you believe them to be false.

Baha'i, Islam, and Taoism.

[Tarsonis]

Yeah but pfft what do they know

How to manage a banking account

Flirting oftly close with that line there

[Stonok]

How to manage a banking account

Flirting oftly close with that line there

It was irresistible.

I apologize to anyone offended however.

[Nordengrund]

Nope.

I didn't think so, but with all the Catholics and Orthodox about and just me and a couple other Protestants, I had to crack a burning joke.

As long as you're not a low-churcher like me, you should be alright.

[Stonok]

I didn't think so, but with all the Catholics and Orthodox about and just me and a couple other Protestants, I had to crack a burning joke.

As long as you're not a low-churcher like me, you should be alright.

I'm affiliated with the Southern Baptist Church. We pretty much only do immersion baptism and the Last Supper. I haven't looked it up specifically but I have a feeling we're probably not only in the low church, but low in the low church.

[Nordengrund]

As long as you're not a low-churcher like me, you should be alright.

I'm affiliated with the Southern Baptist Church. We pretty much only do immersion baptism and the Last Supper. I haven't looked it up specifically but I have a feeling we're probably not only in the low church, but low in the low church.

I attend a Southern Baptist church, though my personal beliefs are much closer to the Quakers.