NATION

PASSWORD

The Christian Discussion thread IX: Pelagius Rising.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What is your denomination?

Roman Catholic
273
34%
Eastern Orthodox
67
8%
Non-Chalcedonian (Oriental Orthodox, Church of the East, etc.)
6
1%
Anglican/Episcopalian
53
7%
Lutheran or Reformed (including Calvinist, Presbyterian, etc.)
95
12%
Methodist
29
4%
Baptist
89
11%
Other Evangelical Protestant (Pentecostal, Charismatic, etc.)
52
7%
Restorationist (LDS Movement, Jehovah's Witness, etc.)
18
2%
Other Christian
113
14%
 
Total votes : 795

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Tarsonis
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tarsonis » Mon May 28, 2018 11:03 am

Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft wrote:
Lower Nubia wrote:
What? because it aids reproduction it's acceptable? Sexual exploitation, child marriage (gotta' breed em' while their young!) and rape, all aid in sexual reproduction - they're all wrong.

Not to mention the gay uncle hypothesis is extraordinary nonsense. Specifically lacking any experimental support and defying the current understanding of how ancient people viewed their sexual orientation: where they still married and had their own children. One of the main problems with presuming the latent continuation of homosexual genes through the heterosexual's families offspring is that the gay uncle, had his own children, just because the 21st century disconnects this idea, doesn't mean it was disconnected for far older population. Which would suggest normal inheritance rather than some contrived instance of natural and sexual selection.

I was thinking about normal inheritance and the origin of homosexuality and for future generation a simple test will illuminate much of the matter:

As normal inheritance is the case, we should start seeing a decline in the number of homosexuals as a percentage of the population, as homosexual couples become a greater percentage of the overall couples, the inability to pass the gene through offspring should produce a 'homosexual bottleneck' where they become more insignificant as a percentage of the population as the centuries go on before plateauing off as an exceedingly low percentage of the total population. Even if the genes which increase affinity for homosexuality are germline mutations, it would be quite an obvious set of markers for detection and no doubt a paper exists, studying the effect in twins, on the matter and outlining the genes responsible, though I've never heard anyone bring up the actual genes, or even name them, before. If it's a unit of inheritance there shouldn't be a significant number of homosexuals in future centuries, but if there is and if it is a mutation, we should be able to identify it. Either way, 1) there will be a mutant origin in each homosexual person, explaining the population stability or 2) there won't be any meaningful number of homosexuals in the future because the gene won't be passed on to future generations. Of course 3) if neither of these things occur, but the homosexual population remains steady (similar or raised levels than today) I think that would be conclusive proof that homosexuality has a greater pathological and choice factor than is currently let on.

1. I'm saying that homosexuality in the long run aids reproduction to explain why it exists through natural selection.


Natural selection isn’t the end all and be all of explanations, nor is it a perfect system.

2. I'm talking about ancient ancient people, e.g. 100,000s of years ago (evolution is a slow process, FYI). Marriages began as property agreements less than 10,000 years ago.


One, you’re comparing biological evolution with anthropological and cultural development. They’re not remotely the same.

Two, you’re referring to economic marriages, which is arguably much younger than that. Family structures however are as old as humanity itself. There are variances sure, but couple based family structure has always existed.
3.
Read this. Also, relatives of LGBT+ individuals are more likely to be LGBT+, supporting the theory that homosexuality is genetic.

Not quite. Genetics are a factor, yes, but not a root cause. The cause of homosexuality is a complex integration between genetics, social and physical developments. It’s not nature or nurture, it’s both.
For example: twins where one is gay and the other isn’t.

4. Technologies such as genetic engineering will make natural evolution obsolete within decades.


Only if genetic engineering is embraced as an ethical practice.
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Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
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Povolzhye Khaganate
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Founded: May 22, 2018
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Postby Povolzhye Khaganate » Tue May 29, 2018 2:58 am

Hello, Christian Discussion Thread regulars. Peace be with you.

See, I used to have a hobby interest in secular costume history in my spare time, and so I am generally familiar with the names of the secular clothing throughout history, and their terminologies. But, I was wondering: what are each of the vestments—and parts thereof—of the Patriarch of Moscow and All Rus' are called, and who do the two pectoral icons he wears depict? I have poor eyesight, so I cannot see clearly. Also, this is not homework help—this is for a creative project of my own, and in my spare time; I have not studied theology for a long time—but I would like a model to generally work off, so I can better draw, if not describe—as an accompaniment to the former. See, the Orthodox vestments—with their emphasis on beauty, rather than humility—fascinate me, in their intricacy and elaborateness, as well as the ceremony associated with them.

Thank you for your time. :)
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Diopolis
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Postby Diopolis » Tue May 29, 2018 4:28 pm

Povolzhye Khaganate wrote:
Hello, Christian Discussion Thread regulars. Peace be with you.

See, I used to have a hobby interest in secular costume history in my spare time, and so I am generally familiar with the names of the secular clothing throughout history, and their terminologies. But, I was wondering: what are each of the vestments—and parts thereof—of the Patriarch of Moscow and All Rus' are called, and who do the two pectoral icons he wears depict? I have poor eyesight, so I cannot see clearly. Also, this is not homework help—this is for a creative project of my own, and in my spare time; I have not studied theology for a long time—but I would like a model to generally work off, so I can better draw, if not describe—as an accompaniment to the former. See, the Orthodox vestments—with their emphasis on beauty, rather than humility—fascinate me, in their intricacy and elaborateness, as well as the ceremony associated with them.

Thank you for your time. :)

UMN had a series on vestments a while back, didn't he?
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United Muscovite Nations
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Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Tue May 29, 2018 4:35 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Povolzhye Khaganate wrote:
Hello, Christian Discussion Thread regulars. Peace be with you.

See, I used to have a hobby interest in secular costume history in my spare time, and so I am generally familiar with the names of the secular clothing throughout history, and their terminologies. But, I was wondering: what are each of the vestments—and parts thereof—of the Patriarch of Moscow and All Rus' are called, and who do the two pectoral icons he wears depict? I have poor eyesight, so I cannot see clearly. Also, this is not homework help—this is for a creative project of my own, and in my spare time; I have not studied theology for a long time—but I would like a model to generally work off, so I can better draw, if not describe—as an accompaniment to the former. See, the Orthodox vestments—with their emphasis on beauty, rather than humility—fascinate me, in their intricacy and elaborateness, as well as the ceremony associated with them.

Thank you for your time. :)

UMN had a series on vestments a while back, didn't he?

I did, but I'm really not sure which vestments he's referring to? If it's liturgical vestments, they are the same as those of Orthodox bishops, and can be found pretty easily with a google search. If the clerical clothing of the Patriarch of Moscow, that's a little harder to find the names for, but it's fewer stuff and so easier to name. The hat the Patriarch of Moscow wears is the only one that would present a problem and it is a stylized form of the koukoulion, which is a monastic hat worn by schemamonks (those who have achieved the highest level of Monasticism). The robe he wears is just a Russian cassock, composed of two parts; the podryasnik and the ryasa, the inner-and-outer cassocks, respectively. The icons he wears are, IIRC, one of Christ (Pat. Kirill's favorite is usually one of the "Made without hands" icon, which can be seen in pictures) and the Theotokos with the Child Jesus.

For what he wears in the liturgy, that can be found just by looking up what Eastern episcopal vestments.
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts Eastern Orthodox Christian. Christian Anarchist and Monarchist. Supporter of Pan-Arabism. Semi-ironic love of Saddam Hussein.
"In fact, I was confident that if an "International Hikikomori Olympics" were to take place, I would score pretty well. I was certain I would beat out other hikikomori regardless of country, whether it was a Russian hikikomori who escaped through vodka, an English hikikomori whose escape was through drugs, or an American hikikomori who found escape by randomly shooting guns indoors." - Welcome to the NHK, Chapter 1
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Povolzhye Khaganate
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Founded: May 22, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Povolzhye Khaganate » Tue May 29, 2018 5:35 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Diopolis wrote:UMN had a series on vestments a while back, didn't he?

I did, but I'm really not sure which vestments he's referring to? If it's liturgical vestments, they are the same as those of Orthodox bishops, and can be found pretty easily with a google search. If the clerical clothing of the Patriarch of Moscow, that's a little harder to find the names for, but it's fewer stuff and so easier to name. The hat the Patriarch of Moscow wears is the only one that would present a problem and it is a stylized form of the koukoulion, which is a monastic hat worn by schemamonks (those who have achieved the highest level of Monasticism). The robe he wears is just a Russian cassock, composed of two parts; the podryasnik and the ryasa, the inner-and-outer cassocks, respectively. The icons he wears are, IIRC, one of Christ (Pat. Kirill's favorite is usually one of the "Made without hands" icon, which can be seen in pictures) and the Theotokos with the Child Jesus.

For what he wears in the liturgy, that can be found just by looking up what Eastern episcopal vestments.

Thank you so much, UMN and Dio, for the quick response! Much appreciated. :)

Now, to get down to my doodles...
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Tarsonis
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Founded: Sep 20, 2017
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Postby Tarsonis » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:57 pm

This is the quietest I’ve ever seen this thread in summer
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005. M.A.R. Yale Divinity School ‘18.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
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Guelder
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Founded: May 05, 2017
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Postby Guelder » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:58 pm

Tarsonis wrote:This is the quietest I’ve ever seen this thread in summer


I know right
MY NATION'S OFFICIAL NAME IS GUELDERS, SO MY NATION HAS NOTHING TO TO WITH GOLD AND GUILDER

Arnhem Times: The House of the Representatives voted that the flag has to be changed since 67% wants design 2 to be the new flag, the Court of Justice can't do anything if the House tells the President otherwise. Thus the new law won't be passed and on January 1, 2019 Guelders will have a new flag

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Auze
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Postby Auze » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:11 pm

Guelder wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:This is the quietest I’ve ever seen this thread in summer


I know right

I wonder, did you ever get baptized? We talked on why you can't baptized yourself, so I'm curious.
Tarsonis wrote: You broke the chain Auze, shame on you.
If you are reading this...
Hello, I'm an LDS kid from South Carolina!
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Best thread title ever.
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Guelder
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Postby Guelder » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:59 pm

Auze wrote:
Guelder wrote:
I know right

I wonder, did you ever get baptized? We talked on why you can't baptized yourself, so I'm curious.


No i am still not baptized, but i think i am going to let me baptize into the Protestant Church since the Mormon temple is in Zoetermeer and i live on the other side of the Netherlands, thus too far from it. But i saw this video about baptizing yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQz0tLatooA&t=708s This let me into questioning myself since i can't find anywhere in the bible about baptizing yourself.
Last edited by Guelder on Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MY NATION'S OFFICIAL NAME IS GUELDERS, SO MY NATION HAS NOTHING TO TO WITH GOLD AND GUILDER

Arnhem Times: The House of the Representatives voted that the flag has to be changed since 67% wants design 2 to be the new flag, the Court of Justice can't do anything if the House tells the President otherwise. Thus the new law won't be passed and on January 1, 2019 Guelders will have a new flag

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Auze
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Postby Auze » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:40 pm

Guelder wrote:
Auze wrote:I wonder, did you ever get baptized? We talked on why you can't baptized yourself, so I'm curious.


No i am still not baptized, but i think i am going to let me baptize into the Protestant Church since the Mormon temple is in Zoetermeer and i live on the other side of the Netherlands, thus too far from it. But i saw this video about baptizing yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQz0tLatooA&t=708s This let me into questioning myself since i can't find anywhere in the bible about baptizing yourself.

Where do you live, exactly?
Here is a map where you can find Meetinghouses.
Last edited by Auze on Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Tarsonis wrote: You broke the chain Auze, shame on you.
If you are reading this...
Hello, I'm an LDS kid from South Carolina!
I'm a straight, cis male with socialist leanings.
Best thread title ever.
We can win World War Glitter!

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Guelder
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Founded: May 05, 2017
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Postby Guelder » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:47 pm

Auze wrote:
Guelder wrote:
No i am still not baptized, but i think i am going to let me baptize into the Protestant Church since the Mormon temple is in Zoetermeer and i live on the other side of the Netherlands, thus too far from it. But i saw this video about baptizing yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQz0tLatooA&t=708s This let me into questioning myself since i can't find anywhere in the bible about baptizing yourself.

Where do you live, exactly?
Here is a map where you can find Meetinghouses.


Eastern Netherlands, in the province of Gelderland
MY NATION'S OFFICIAL NAME IS GUELDERS, SO MY NATION HAS NOTHING TO TO WITH GOLD AND GUILDER

Arnhem Times: The House of the Representatives voted that the flag has to be changed since 67% wants design 2 to be the new flag, the Court of Justice can't do anything if the House tells the President otherwise. Thus the new law won't be passed and on January 1, 2019 Guelders will have a new flag

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Auze
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Postby Auze » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:53 pm

Guelder wrote:


Eastern Netherlands, in the province of Gelderland

Are you within driving distance of any of the meetinghouses here?
Tarsonis wrote: You broke the chain Auze, shame on you.
If you are reading this...
Hello, I'm an LDS kid from South Carolina!
I'm a straight, cis male with socialist leanings.
Best thread title ever.
We can win World War Glitter!

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Guelder
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Founded: May 05, 2017
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Postby Guelder » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:00 pm

Auze wrote:
Guelder wrote:
Eastern Netherlands, in the province of Gelderland

Are you within driving distance of any of the meetinghouses here?


Sadly no, i have only a bycicle
MY NATION'S OFFICIAL NAME IS GUELDERS, SO MY NATION HAS NOTHING TO TO WITH GOLD AND GUILDER

Arnhem Times: The House of the Representatives voted that the flag has to be changed since 67% wants design 2 to be the new flag, the Court of Justice can't do anything if the House tells the President otherwise. Thus the new law won't be passed and on January 1, 2019 Guelders will have a new flag

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Negarakita
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Postby Negarakita » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:48 pm


Bus?
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Hakons
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Postby Hakons » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:25 pm



How far it is to travel should not determine what religion you join. Join the Church that God calls you to, the Church that spreads and maintains the message of Christ.

That being said, I wouldn't recommend being baptized into Mormonism, since they haven't maintained the Gospel. I would stick to your course and get baptized at the Protestant Church. There you will be baptized and filled with the spirit of the one triune God, something the Mormons forsake.
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Tarsonis
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Postby Tarsonis » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:21 pm

Hakons wrote:
Guelder wrote:
Sadly no, i have only a bycicle


How far it is to travel should not determine what religion you join. Join the Church that God calls you to, the Church that spreads and maintains the message of Christ.

That being said, I wouldn't recommend being baptized into Mormonism, since they haven't maintained the Gospel. I would stick to your course and get baptized at the Protestant Church. There you will be baptized and filled with the spirit of the one triune God, something the Mormons forsake.


That being said, I wouldn’t recommend being baptized into Protestantism, since they haven’t maintained the Gospel. I would change gears sand get baptized into the Catholic Church. There you will be educated, baptized and confirmed into the one true Church, something the Protestants forsake.
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005. M.A.R. Yale Divinity School ‘18.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:09 am

Tarsonis wrote:
Hakons wrote:
How far it is to travel should not determine what religion you join. Join the Church that God calls you to, the Church that spreads and maintains the message of Christ.

That being said, I wouldn't recommend being baptized into Mormonism, since they haven't maintained the Gospel. I would stick to your course and get baptized at the Protestant Church. There you will be baptized and filled with the spirit of the one triune God, something the Mormons forsake.


That being said, I wouldn’t recommend being baptized into Protestantism, since they haven’t maintained the Gospel. I would change gears sand get baptized into the Catholic Church. There you will be educated, baptized and confirmed into the one true Church, something the Protestants forsake.


That being said, I wouldn’t recommend being baptized into Protestantism, since they haven’t maintained the Gospel, or Catholicism, since they're schismatics. I would change gears sand get baptized into the Orthodox Church. There you will be educated, baptized, and confirmed into the one true Church, something the Protestants and Roman Catholics forsake.

<waits for a stray Copt to add to the chain>

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Sahansahiye Iran
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Postby Sahansahiye Iran » Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:23 am

Are there even any Copts active in NSG?
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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:50 am

Sahansahiye Iran wrote:Are there even any Copts active in NSG?

Five according to the poll.
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts Eastern Orthodox Christian. Christian Anarchist and Monarchist. Supporter of Pan-Arabism. Semi-ironic love of Saddam Hussein.
"In fact, I was confident that if an "International Hikikomori Olympics" were to take place, I would score pretty well. I was certain I would beat out other hikikomori regardless of country, whether it was a Russian hikikomori who escaped through vodka, an English hikikomori whose escape was through drugs, or an American hikikomori who found escape by randomly shooting guns indoors." - Welcome to the NHK, Chapter 1
MASS WAVE

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Sahansahiye Iran
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Postby Sahansahiye Iran » Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:41 am

:eyebrow:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Sahansahiye Iran wrote:Are there even any Copts active in NSG?

Five according to the poll.

I said active :P I've never seen one.
Last edited by Sahansahiye Iran on Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
User formerly known as United Islamic Commonwealth and al-Ismailiyya.

Also known as Khosrow, Zarhust, or Lanian Empire.

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Auze
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Postby Auze » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:46 am

Tarsonis wrote:
Hakons wrote:
How far it is to travel should not determine what religion you join. Join the Church that God calls you to, the Church that spreads and maintains the message of Christ.

That being said, I wouldn't recommend being baptized into Mormonism, since they haven't maintained the Gospel. I would stick to your course and get baptized at the Protestant Church. There you will be baptized and filled with the spirit of the one triune God, something the Mormons forsake.


That being said, I wouldn’t recommend being baptized into Protestantism, since they haven’t maintained the Gospel. I would change gears sand get baptized into the Catholic Church. There you will be educated, baptized and confirmed into the one true Church, something the Protestants forsake.

That being said, I wouldn’t recommend being baptized into Catholicism, since they haven’t maintained the full Gospel. I would change gears sand get baptized into the LDS Church. There you will be educated, baptized and given the Gift of the Holy Ghost, something the Catholics forsake.

I wonder who will attach on to this next
Tarsonis wrote: You broke the chain Auze, shame on you.
If you are reading this...
Hello, I'm an LDS kid from South Carolina!
I'm a straight, cis male with socialist leanings.
Best thread title ever.
We can win World War Glitter!

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Auze
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Founded: Oct 31, 2015
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Postby Auze » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:48 am

Hakons wrote:
Guelder wrote:
Sadly no, i have only a bycicle


How far it is to travel should not determine what religion you join. Join the Church that God calls you to, the Church that spreads and maintains the message of Christ.

That being said, I wouldn't recommend being baptized into Mormonism, since they haven't maintained the Gospel. I would stick to your course and get baptized at the Protestant Church. There you will be baptized and filled with the spirit of the one triune God, something the Mormons forsake.

No advertising your denomination. Ummm... Bad Hakons!
Tarsonis wrote: You broke the chain Auze, shame on you.
If you are reading this...
Hello, I'm an LDS kid from South Carolina!
I'm a straight, cis male with socialist leanings.
Best thread title ever.
We can win World War Glitter!

User avatar
Tarsonis
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Posts: 4976
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tarsonis » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:06 am

Auze wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
That being said, I wouldn’t recommend being baptized into Protestantism, since they haven’t maintained the Gospel. I would change gears sand get baptized into the Catholic Church. There you will be educated, baptized and confirmed into the one true Church, something the Protestants forsake.

That being said, I wouldn’t recommend being baptized into Catholicism, since they haven’t maintained the full Gospel. I would change gears sand get baptized into the LDS Church. There you will be educated, baptized and given the Gift of the Holy Ghost, something the Catholics forsake.

I wonder who will attach on to this next


Arch already did mine. You broke the chain Auze, shame on you.
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005. M.A.R. Yale Divinity School ‘18.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
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Auze
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Postby Auze » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:08 am

Tarsonis wrote:
Auze wrote:That being said, I wouldn’t recommend being baptized into Catholicism, since they haven’t maintained the full Gospel. I would change gears sand get baptized into the LDS Church. There you will be educated, baptized and given the Gift of the Holy Ghost, something the Catholics forsake.

I wonder who will attach on to this next


Arch already did mine. You broke the chain Auze, shame on you.

Oops.
Tarsonis wrote: You broke the chain Auze, shame on you.
If you are reading this...
Hello, I'm an LDS kid from South Carolina!
I'm a straight, cis male with socialist leanings.
Best thread title ever.
We can win World War Glitter!

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Auze
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Posts: 1291
Founded: Oct 31, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Auze » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:09 am

Tarsonis wrote: You broke the chain Auze, shame on you.

Also, sigging.
Tarsonis wrote: You broke the chain Auze, shame on you.
If you are reading this...
Hello, I'm an LDS kid from South Carolina!
I'm a straight, cis male with socialist leanings.
Best thread title ever.
We can win World War Glitter!

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