The Christian Discussion thread IX: Pelagius Rising.

[Geneviev]

Then, currently, does Jesus know when He will return?

Probably. Depends on whether you view Mark 13:32 as eternal, or temporal.

And the Spirit? Does the Spirit (which is not mentioned in the verse) know when Jesus will return?

[Dylar]

John 1:1-5:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 [a]He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not [b]comprehend it.

However, you must know that Tarsonis, ND, and I, along with many other Catholics and Orthodox members of this thread (probably even a few Protestant denominations' members) do not believe in Sola Scriptura

Sola Scriptura is confirmed by the Bible itself. Though if you do not follow the Bible, perhaps that will not be a valid point.
1 Thessalonians 2:1
John 17:8
John 17:17

1 Thessalonians 2:1:
"For you yourselves know, brothers, that our reception among you was not without effect"
Not seeing Sola Scriptura there...
John 17:8:
"Because the words you gave to me I have given to them, and they have accepted them and truly understood that I came from you, and they have believed that you sent me."
Not seeing Sola Scriptura there, either...
John 17:17:
"Consecrate them in truth. Your word is truth"
Still not seeing it...

[Ferretslavia]

It's actually not. Sola Scriptura is a tradition


um... think you mis cited there.




And? This has nothing to do with scripture.





Again this has nothing overtly referring to scripture. You're inferring that its referring to scripture, based on a larger body of teaching. That's called tradition

A tradition confirmed by the Bible.

Humiliatingly, yes, I meant verse 13. My apologies.

They are referring to Scripture, as God's word is accepted by most Christians to be contained in the Bible. If not, then what purpose does the Bible serve?

How can you believe in Sola Scriptura but support the gay nonsense? I don't care what denomination you are, but hypocrite Christians like you are the worst.

[Albrenia]

Did people who knew Elvis and Hitler attest to seeing them after death?

Nonsense.

Agreed, that is nonsense. Although at first glance it may seem like OT God is an asshole, upon further investigation, one sees that he had good reasons for what he did and was surprisingly compassionate.

Like by killing everything and everyone who wasn't on Noah's Ark?

[Lower Nubia]

currently yes. There’s extensive debate over just how much Christ knew during his earthly ministry .

Then, currently, does Jesus know when He will return?

We don't know. But we do have ideas.

[Hakons]

The Bible is not foundation of Christianity.

It is the Word of God. I will not answer to what people follow if it is not solidly grounded in what God has to say. Galatians 1:6-9 offers a clear warning about people who teach about Jesus with their own version of the Gospel. You can also see the same in Deuteronomy 12:32.

Since the Bible is the Word of God, surely you would profess belief in the Resurrection?

[Ferretslavia]

Agreed, that is nonsense. Although at first glance it may seem like OT God is an asshole, upon further investigation, one sees that he had good reasons for what he did and was surprisingly compassionate.

Like by killing everything and everyone who wasn't on Noah's Ark?

The world was morally depraved. God is holy, and the wages of sin is death, so he must punish sin, which is made very clear. So in fact, it was extremely kind of God to not just explode Adam and Eve when they ate the forbidden fruit.

[Lower Nubia]

Elvis and Hitler weren't executed by Roman's nor do these "sightings" involve going up to their face and putting your hand in their scars.

Considering how he died, I don't think you'd be able to do that with Elvis anyway...

He has 'appeared' on film numerous times, however.

Isn't that sort of dismantling the point? If we identify Elvis on the television, but know that it is not actually Elvis, wouldn't the Apostles have the same thought and need much convincing to proclaim them as Christ?

[Geneviev]

A tradition confirmed by the Bible.

Humiliatingly, yes, I meant verse 13. My apologies.

They are referring to Scripture, as God's word is accepted by most Christians to be contained in the Bible. If not, then what purpose does the Bible serve?

How can you believe in Sola Scriptura but support the gay nonsense? I don't care what denomination you are, but hypocrite Christians like you are the worst.

Where did I hear that again?

I understand and study the Bible. Based on my conclusions, which I do not force you to accept or acknowledge, the Bible has nothing to do with modern politics beyond the obvious.

God bless you.

[Northern Davincia]

Agreed, that is nonsense. Although at first glance it may seem like OT God is an asshole, upon further investigation, one sees that he had good reasons for what he did and was surprisingly compassionate.

Like by killing everything and everyone who wasn't on Noah's Ark?

Before the Flood, humans mated with angels and created vile abominations. Their wickedness was on a level that we can scarcely imagine.

[Hakons]

A tradition confirmed by the Bible.

Humiliatingly, yes, I meant verse 13. My apologies.

They are referring to Scripture, as God's word is accepted by most Christians to be contained in the Bible. If not, then what purpose does the Bible serve?

How can you believe in Sola Scriptura but support the gay nonsense? I don't care what denomination you are, but hypocrite Christians like you are the worst.

Stop that.

Geneviev is confused about their faith, and this is the exactly wrong approach to take.

[Albrenia]

Considering how he died, I don't think you'd be able to do that with Elvis anyway...

He has 'appeared' on film numerous times, however.

Isn't that sort of dismantling the point? If we identify Elvis on the television, but know that it is not actually Elvis, wouldn't the Apostles have the same thought and need much convincing to proclaim them as Christ?

I don't imagine one would follow someone around earnestly believing they are literally God, and then be surprised and suspicious when they turn up post death, or are reported to have done so. Particularly not after all the other miracles Jesus pulled in front of them, allegedly.

[Geneviev]

It is the Word of God. I will not answer to what people follow if it is not solidly grounded in what God has to say. Galatians 1:6-9 offers a clear warning about people who teach about Jesus with their own version of the Gospel. You can also see the same in Deuteronomy 12:32.

Since the Bible is the Word of God, surely you would profess belief in the Resurrection?

I would.

That is, if I were not looking for people who can do a better job of being Christian than the one person who forced me out of Christianity.

The only reason I am still here is to see if there are people who follow the Bible and who can explain why. Otherwise I have found a group who actually accept me as I am at the moment.

[Ferretslavia]

Then, currently, does Jesus know when He will return?

We don't know. But we do have ideas.

Jesus is at the right hand of God, so they probably chat and he knows when he will return. I think he will return very soon, perhaps within my lifetime, my children's lifetime, or my grandchildren's lifetime, given how the world is sinking deeper into socially liberal moral depravity. Jesus just can't reveal this to anyone, because then people would just sin like crazy and then act all sorry right before he comes again to take advantage of that.

[Ferretslavia]

Then, currently, does Jesus know when He will return?

We don't know. But we do have ideas.

Jesus is at the right hand of God, so they probably chat and he knows when he will return. I think he will return very soon, perhaps within my lifetime, my children's lifetime, or my grandchildren's lifetime, given how the world is sinking deeper into socially liberal moral depravity. Jesus just can't reveal this to anyone, because then people would just sin like crazy and then act all sorry right before he comes again to take advantage of that.

Accidentally double-posted.

[Tarsonis]

It's actually not. Sola Scriptura is a tradition


um... think you mis cited there.




And? This has nothing to do with scripture.





Again this has nothing overtly referring to scripture. You're inferring that its referring to scripture, based on a larger body of teaching. That's called tradition

A tradition confirmed by the Bible.

Humiliatingly, yes, I meant verse 13. My apologies.

They are referring to Scripture, as God's word is accepted by most Christians to be contained in the Bible. If not, then what purpose does the Bible serve?

They're not referring to scripture per say. They're referring to the word of God. The word of God is more than just mere words, it has a much more abstract connotation, like Sophia/wisdom.

Christ is the incarnate Word of God. In simplistic terms, both Scripture and Tradition are the word of God by transitive property, because they are inspired by the Word of God.

[Ferretslavia]

Since the Bible is the Word of God, surely you would profess belief in the Resurrection?

I would.

That is, if I were not looking for people who can do a better job of being Christian than the one person who forced me out of Christianity.

The only reason I am still here is to see if there are people who follow the Bible and who can explain why. Otherwise I have found a group who actually accept me as I am at the moment.

Read Cold Case Christianity. This is actually what converted me to Christianity. http://www.coldcasechristianity.com/dow ... erInfo.pdf
It is written by a former atheist cold case detective who applied the standards for reliable testimony in court to the Bible and deemed it reliable.

[Geneviev]

A tradition confirmed by the Bible.

Humiliatingly, yes, I meant verse 13. My apologies.

They are referring to Scripture, as God's word is accepted by most Christians to be contained in the Bible. If not, then what purpose does the Bible serve?

They're not referring to scripture per say. They're referring to the word of God. The word of God is more than just mere words, it has a much more abstract connotation, like Sophia/wisdom.

Christ is the incarnate Word of God. In simplistic terms, both Scripture and Tradition are the word of God by transitive property, because they are inspired by the Word of God.

I don't mean to interrupt the serious discussion with this, truly, but I know three people with the name Sophia and all three are not particularly wise. Very gifted in the arts, though.

Then what purpose does the Bible have? If it is not the final authority on God, how do we believe it?

[Albrenia]

Like by killing everything and everyone who wasn't on Noah's Ark?

Before the Flood, humans mated with angels and created vile abominations. Their wickedness was on a level that we can scarcely imagine.

Did all humans and animals do that? Again, the whole 'kill everybody' thing does not seem compassionate to me.

I don't mean to argue the point though, particularly as this is you guy's thread and I don't want to cause an argument.

[Geneviev]

Before the Flood, humans mated with angels and created vile abominations. Their wickedness was on a level that we can scarcely imagine.

Did all humans and animals do that? Again, the whole 'kill everybody' thing does not seem compassionate to me.

I don't mean to argue the point though, particularly as this is you guy's thread and I don't want to cause an argument.

Don't worry about that. I believe there are arguments taking place here now.

[Tarsonis]

Before the Flood, humans mated with angels and created vile abominations. Their wickedness was on a level that we can scarcely imagine.

Did all humans and animals do that? Again, the whole 'kill everybody' thing does not seem compassionate to me.

I don't mean to argue the point though, particularly as this is you guy's thread and I don't want to cause an argument.

As an alternative view point: The flood never happened. It's allegorical.

[Ferretslavia]

Before the Flood, humans mated with angels and created vile abominations. Their wickedness was on a level that we can scarcely imagine.

Did all humans and animals do that? Again, the whole 'kill everybody' thing does not seem compassionate to me.

I don't mean to argue the point though, particularly as this is you guy's thread and I don't want to cause an argument.

What? Humans never did that with angels. If angels did that, they would be rebelling against God, and would become demons. Remember, God is holy, the wages of sin is death, so he must punish sin. We're lucky he didn't explode Adam and Eve when they sinned, which shows how compassionate he is.

[Dylar]

Did all humans and animals do that? Again, the whole 'kill everybody' thing does not seem compassionate to me.

I don't mean to argue the point though, particularly as this is you guy's thread and I don't want to cause an argument.

What? Humans never did that with angels. If angels did that, they would be rebelling against God, and would become demons.

I mean, those angels could've been the 1/3 of the angels that followed Satan and rebelled against God.

[Geneviev]

I would.

That is, if I were not looking for people who can do a better job of being Christian than the one person who forced me out of Christianity.

The only reason I am still here is to see if there are people who follow the Bible and who can explain why. Otherwise I have found a group who actually accept me as I am at the moment.

Read Cold Case Christianity. This is actually what converted me to Christianity. http://www.coldcasechristianity.com/dow ... erInfo.pdf
It is written by a former atheist cold case detective who applied the standards for reliable testimony in court to the Bible and deemed it reliable.

Aww... I'm going to be converted to Christianity?

Look, I believe in the Bible. I have more problems with the Church that follows it. Yeah?

[Lower Nubia]

Isn't that sort of dismantling the point? If we identify Elvis on the television, but know that it is not actually Elvis, wouldn't the Apostles have the same thought and need much convincing to proclaim them as Christ?

I don't imagine one would follow someone around earnestly believing they are literally God, and then be surprised and suspicious when they turn up post death, or are reported to have done so. Particularly not after all the other miracles Jesus pulled in front of them, allegedly.

Your proposition is confusing Jesus with someone who looks similar, a mass delusion is ridiculous, yet even a look-a-like would not be sufficient as the Apostles watched and saw the holes in His hands and Scar on His side, and talked to Him. This isn't a chance sighting.

And, except where they said they did exactly that...

Matthew 26:56:

"But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled."