The Christian Discussion thread IX: Pelagius Rising.

[The Parkus Empire]

He did say however not to defend yourself. Which didn't even do in front of Pilate

What about Luke 22:36 then?

None of the ancient commentary on Scripture reads that as about self defense.

[The Parkus Empire]

We're not presuming a situation where someone is threatening both you and others, we are presuming it's just you

How would defending yourself from aggression be sinful? Literally the worst I could see it being, in the Christian paradigm, is morally neutral....

Because Christ said if someone strikes you, let them. If they rob you, give them everything

[Aulus Maximus]

What about Luke 22:36 then?

None of the ancient commentary on Scripture reads that as about self defense.

Good point, I researched some further and came into this

The directive to buy a sword deserves a measure of separate consideration. Lined up as it is with purse, bag, and sandals, we can eliminate at once any idea that zealot sympathies are coming to expression with the commendation of the sword. The sword is thought of as part of the equipment required for the self-sufficiency of any traveller in the Roman world. Nothing more than protection of one's person is in view (John Nolland, Word Biblical Commentary, vol. 35C: Luke 18:35-24:53 (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1993), p. 1076).

[Salus Maior]

Aight, fair enough. Though, I'd support another Crusade. Only, the intention should be to fight off terrorism in the Middle East, rather than taking back Jerusalem...

Why call it a Crusade?

Because rule of cool, man.

[The Parkus Empire]

None of the ancient commentary on Scripture reads that as about self defense.

Good point, I researched some further and came into this

The directive to buy a sword deserves a measure of separate consideration. Lined up as it is with purse, bag, and sandals, we can eliminate at once any idea that zealot sympathies are coming to expression with the commendation of the sword. The sword is thought of as part of the equipment required for the self-sufficiency of any traveller in the Roman world. Nothing more than protection of one's person is in view (John Nolland, Word Biblical Commentary, vol. 35C: Luke 18:35-24:53 (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1993), p. 1076).

Not ancient commentary

[Dylar]

Good point, I researched some further and came into this

Not ancient commentary

Does it matter if it is?

[Aulus Maximus]

Not ancient commentary

Does it matter if it is?

For Orthodox people yes.

[The Parkus Empire]

Not ancient commentary

Does it matter if it is?

I generally don't put much stock in commentary if it's not written by a saint, except for purposes that don't actually have theological or moral implications. If there are such implications, I stick to saints.

[Aulus Maximus]

Does it matter if it is?

I generally don't put much stock in commentary if it's not written by a saint, except for purposes that don't actually have theological or moral implications. If there are such implications, I stick to saints.

Implications can mix up and be open to interprentation to the believer, or reader.

[The Glorious Third Reign of Templedom]

I think it depends on the Christian"s vocation. As a...

• civilian: "diplomacy! diplomaaaacy!"
• government: "talk terms or sanctionz!"
• soldier: "nuke 'em."

How do I justify this position? The centurion in Acts 10:4 had his prayers answered without having to quit his job beforehand, so soldiering is a licit vocation. Also, it used to be that service was rendered in season for public works projects so "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's" can be interpreted to include manual service.

[Aulus Maximus]

I think the best to do for both GTRT and Parkus is to just ask their priest tbh.

[Painisia]

What do you all think is the reason that Christianity currently is declining in Europe? There are more atheists than ever in Europe

[The Glorious Third Reign of Templedom]

I think the best to do for both GTRT and Parkus is to just ask their priest tbh.

I have a notion priestly answers cannot turn swords into plowshares...

[Aulus Maximus]

What do you all think is the reason that Christianity currently is declining in Europe? There are more atheists than ever in Europe

Non-religious upbringing, as far as I know church attendency is dwindling (this goes for Muslims in Europe as well) which means faith is becoming less and less of a daily matter for said people, leading to secularism.

Also, I personally think no education in religion on school contributes to said numbers.

[Aulus Maximus]

I think the best to do for both GTRT and Parkus is to just ask their priest tbh.

I have a notion priestly answers cannot turn swords into plowshares...

No but they can give an interpretation, and answer, about the question about self defense.

[The Parkus Empire]

I think the best to do for both GTRT and Parkus is to just ask their priest tbh.

https://waynenorthey.com/living-in-comm ... mas-hopko/

[The Parkus Empire]

I think it depends on the Christian"s vocation. As a...

• civilian: "diplomacy! diplomaaaacy!"
• government: "talk terms or sanctionz!"
• soldier: "nuke 'em."

How do I justify this position? The centurion in Acts 10:4 had his prayers answered without having to quit his job beforehand, so soldiering is a licit vocation. Also, it used to be that service was rendered in season for public works projects so "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's" can be interpreted to include manual service.

The state is given a divine mission to judge and has the authority to even kill as punishment, so that's a bit different

[Nordengrund]

What do you all think is the reason that Christianity currently is declining in Europe? There are more atheists than ever in Europe

Non-religious upbringing, as far as I know church attendency is dwindling (this goes for Muslims in Europe as well) which means faith is becoming less and less of a daily matter for said people, leading to secularism.

Also, I personally think no education in religion on school contributes to said numbers.

I also think that state churches and government are the problem. If you have everyone brought up in a national church from the moment they are born, it could make the faith less genuine and personal for those people than for those who willingly choose to follow God. Also, there is a correlation with well-being and faithlessness. Those who live in poverty tend to be more religious, while those who are more well-off tend to feel that they don't need God, and when the government provides all the social programs and welfare, why turn to God when you have the government you can depend on, in a way, the government becomes God.

[Industrial West Virginia]

There are also more Christians than ever. Numbers like that make no sense, unless you strictly talk percentages instead of numbers. You can use numbers as long as you cite the difference between it and, say, 500 years ago. Other than that, I can also say there are more Hindus, Christians, Muslims, and the like more than ever.

[Aulus Maximus]

Non-religious upbringing, as far as I know church attendency is dwindling (this goes for Muslims in Europe as well) which means faith is becoming less and less of a daily matter for said people, leading to secularism.

Also, I personally think no education in religion on school contributes to said numbers.

I also think that state churches and government are the problem. If you have everyone brought up in a national church from the moment they are born, it could make the faith less genuine and personal for those people than for those who willingly choose to follow God. Also, there is a correlation with well-being and faithlessness. Those who live in poverty tend to be more religious, while those who are more well-off tend to feel that they don't need God, and when the government provides all the social programs and welfare, why turn to God when you have the government you can depend on, in a way, the government becomes God.

well, the only thing we can prove in the Netherlands is that, apart of certain isolated counties in the Netherlands, generally speaking church attendance rates are declining. The areas which do not have such numbers are usually Orthodox Calvinist areas which have a social cohesion in faith, and they're largely rural as well. I think urbanization, education, rapid information and intercultural communication plays roles in it.

[Aulus Maximus]

There are also more Christians than ever. Numbers like that make no sense, unless you strictly talk percentages instead of numbers. You can use numbers as long as you cite the difference between it and, say, 500 years ago. Other than that, I can also say there are more Hindus, Christians, Muslims, and the like more than ever.

Yes, but there are numbers in the Netherlands that Christianity is declining.

[The Parkus Empire]

I think the best to do for both GTRT and Parkus is to just ask their priest tbh.

https://waynenorthey.com/living-in-comm ... mas-hopko/

I should note that my priest generally defers to what this guy says.

[The Glorious Third Reign of Templedom]

No but they can give an interpretation, and answer, about the question about self defense.

Blessed are the martyrs.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Someone Sovaal knew passed away. If my fellow brothers and sisters could pray for him, that would be appreciated.

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

I also think that state churches and government are the problem. If you have everyone brought up in a national church from the moment they are born, it could make the faith less genuine and personal for those people than for those who willingly choose to follow God. Also, there is a correlation with well-being and faithlessness. Those who live in poverty tend to be more religious, while those who are more well-off tend to feel that they don't need God, and when the government provides all the social programs and welfare, why turn to God when you have the government you can depend on, in a way, the government becomes God.

well, the only thing we can prove in the Netherlands is that, apart of certain isolated counties in the Netherlands, generally speaking church attendance rates are declining. The areas which do not have such numbers are usually Orthodox Calvinist areas which have a social cohesion in faith, and they're largely rural as well. I think urbanization, education, rapid information and intercultural communication plays roles in it.

Church attendance is below 1 million in the UK now. Also, richer countries are in most cases less religious (although anomalies such as the US and Vietnam exist)