NATION

PASSWORD

Trump MAGAthread IX: Korea, The Dreamers and Trump

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 97102
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Democratic Socialists

Postby Farnhamia » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:35 pm

Staniel wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:People born within US jurisdiction are US citizens, but if they were born elsewhere, they aren't.
I'm not 100% sure how US waters work with this.



I think you missed the part where I said "born by ILLEGAL immigrants". You can't get instant free amnesty like that. The Constitution does not protect illegal aliens whether they're born in the U.S. or not. AGAIN. IL. LEGALS. What about those aliens who want to pay for a visa and be a naturalized citizen? How is that fair for them? "Dreamers" can't have their cake and eat it too.

Actually, anyone born in the US is a citizen, regardless of the citizenship status of their parents.

Curses, ninja'd.
Last edited by Farnhamia on Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo| In support of Arch

User avatar
Seangoli
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5111
Founded: Sep 24, 2006
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Seangoli » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:36 pm

Kekistonia wrote:
Ism wrote:
Really? I would say it is indefensible to equate legality with morality. They should not be thought of as the same, and morality should always trump legality.

No. The law is the law, nobody is above it. Morality is subjective, the law is much, much less so.


Might I ask what your thoughts on the Joe Arpaio pardon are?

User avatar
Kekistonia
Attaché
 
Posts: 98
Founded: Mar 02, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Kekistonia » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:37 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Kekistonia wrote:
Fair enough. Doesn't change the fact that Dreamers are here illegaly and have to go.

No one is arguing they are here illegally. People are arguing whether they have to go. They are also arguing that if the only law that they have broken is entering the us illegally (and often through no choice of their own), then there are better people to spend resources on, like those who are committing criminal rather then civil crimes.


Resources are best spent giving illegals the boot. They all must go.
Lord Protector of Kekistani Republic .

COMMUNISM is a temporary setback on the road to FREEDOM! Better dead than RED! Also, YOUR MEMES ARE TRASH!

User avatar
Camphuys Islands
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 65
Founded: Aug 28, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Camphuys Islands » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:38 pm

The Trump Presidency, getting rid of overcomplicated problems with easy solutions since 2017.

Time to party like it's November 9th 2016.

Image
The Commonwealth Realm of the Camphuys Islands
Loyal to Queen and Country since 1951.

Important facts:
England and Scotland are Better Together.
BREXIT is a good thing.
Northern Ireland is British, not 'Irish'.
Dutch, Reformed christian, and social-democratic.

A fan of good Prime Minister Willem Drees, God rest his soul.

User avatar
Kekistonia
Attaché
 
Posts: 98
Founded: Mar 02, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Kekistonia » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:38 pm

Seangoli wrote:
Kekistonia wrote:No. The law is the law, nobody is above it. Morality is subjective, the law is much, much less so.


Might I ask what your thoughts on the Joe Arpaio pardon are?


I didn't like it. But that's irrelevant.
Lord Protector of Kekistani Republic .

COMMUNISM is a temporary setback on the road to FREEDOM! Better dead than RED! Also, YOUR MEMES ARE TRASH!

User avatar
Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 97102
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Democratic Socialists

Postby Farnhamia » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:38 pm

Kekistonia wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:No one is arguing they are here illegally. People are arguing whether they have to go. They are also arguing that if the only law that they have broken is entering the us illegally (and often through no choice of their own), then there are better people to spend resources on, like those who are committing criminal rather then civil crimes.


Resources are best spent giving illegals the boot. They all must go.

11 million people? That won't kick the economy in its most delicate gear, no, not at all.
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo| In support of Arch

User avatar
Ism
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5061
Founded: Oct 14, 2011
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ism » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:38 pm

Kekistonia wrote:
Ism wrote:
Really? I would say it is indefensible to equate legality with morality. They should not be thought of as the same, and morality should always trump legality.

No. The law is the law, nobody is above it. Morality is subjective, the law is much, much less so.


So an unjust law must be followed? Regardless of what the consequences are?

User avatar
Internationalist Bastard
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23301
Founded: Aug 09, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Internationalist Bastard » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:38 pm

Camphuys Islands wrote:The Trump Presidency, getting rid of overcomplicated problems with easy solutions since 2017.

Time to party like it's November 9th 2016.


So what happened?
Call me Alex, I insist
I am a girl, damnit
Slut Pride. So like, real talk, I’m a porn actress. We’re not all bimbos. I do not give out my information or videos to avoid conflict with site policy. I’m happy to talk about the industry or my thoughts on the career but I will not be showing you any goodies. Sorry
“Whatever you are, be a good one” Abe Lincoln

User avatar
Valrifell
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17930
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:39 pm

Ism wrote:
Kekistonia wrote:No. The law is the law, nobody is above it. Morality is subjective, the law is much, much less so.


So an unjust law must be followed? Regardless of what the consequences are?


This kind of hyperlegalist mentality is how we get the Holocaust, you know.
Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio
Our nation turns its lonely eyes to you

I did some things

User avatar
Greater Cesnica
Senator
 
Posts: 3516
Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Greater Cesnica » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:40 pm

Za new thread iz up!
Proud Red Tory.
An 8 Power Civilization, with Tier 9 Technology and Type 7 Influence.
I use NS stats for the Economy and GDP spending only.
Working on this right now!

The world needs more love, and peace. Where you live shouldn't determine whether you live. But if you're a cold-blooded killer, rapist, pedophile, or terrorist, you deserve to suffer whatever miserable fate the universe hands you.

P.S Education, Welfare, Healthcare, the Military and Police forces, and Capitalism can all go hand in hand, if we just try.
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
My favourite revenge would be:
Genivaria wrote:Giving him an anal probe with a bayonet?

User avatar
Kekistonia
Attaché
 
Posts: 98
Founded: Mar 02, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Kekistonia » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:40 pm

Ism wrote:
Kekistonia wrote:No. The law is the law, nobody is above it. Morality is subjective, the law is much, much less so.


So an unjust law must be followed? Regardless of what the consequences are?


Yes. If the US government constitutionally passes a law that a lot of people don't like, then tough sh*t.
Last edited by Kekistonia on Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lord Protector of Kekistani Republic .

COMMUNISM is a temporary setback on the road to FREEDOM! Better dead than RED! Also, YOUR MEMES ARE TRASH!

User avatar
Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 97102
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Democratic Socialists

Postby Farnhamia » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:40 pm

Camphuys Islands wrote:The Trump Presidency, getting rid of overcomplicated problems with easy solutions since 2017.

Time to party like it's November 9th 2016.


"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." ~ HL Mencken
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo| In support of Arch

User avatar
Camphuys Islands
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 65
Founded: Aug 28, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Camphuys Islands » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:40 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:
Camphuys Islands wrote:The Trump Presidency, getting rid of overcomplicated problems with easy solutions since 2017.

Time to party like it's November 9th 2016.


So what happened?

Dreamer loophole destroyed.
The Commonwealth Realm of the Camphuys Islands
Loyal to Queen and Country since 1951.

Important facts:
England and Scotland are Better Together.
BREXIT is a good thing.
Northern Ireland is British, not 'Irish'.
Dutch, Reformed christian, and social-democratic.

A fan of good Prime Minister Willem Drees, God rest his soul.

User avatar
Staniel
Envoy
 
Posts: 247
Founded: Jun 15, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Staniel » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:42 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Staniel wrote:

I think you missed the part where I said "born by ILLEGAL immigrants". You can't get instant free amnesty like that. The Constitution does not protect illegal aliens whether they're born in the U.S. or not. AGAIN. IL. LEGALS. What about those aliens who want to pay for a visa and be a naturalized citizen? How is that fair for them? "Dreamers" can't have their cake and eat it too.

Actually, anyone born in the US is a citizen, regardless of the citizenship status of their parents.

Curses, ninja'd.



So what? It still hasn't explicitly been told by the Supreme Court as to whether or not the children of illegal aliens are still allowed to become citizens. Assumptions are just that. Assumptions, not facts.
_[' ]_
(-_Q) If you support capitalism, put this in your signature.
CapitalismFTW & NoNationStats
Staniel: 128 Mil+ Under The Law of Moral Freedom
Staniel's Website | Factbooks | The North Pacific (I'm a Member!)
NewsFast
Top Story:
Historic summit between President Oiz and South African President Jacob Zuma on rising conflicts between South African and Stanleian forces
NewsFastTicker: Nogal-Groot protests for more water in homes advance to second day | 3 wounded in New Staniel City concert shooting; suspect still at large | Phone lines still cut off in Avery due to powerful storm
A 15.4 civilization, according to this index.

User avatar
Kekistonia
Attaché
 
Posts: 98
Founded: Mar 02, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Kekistonia » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:42 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Ism wrote:
So an unjust law must be followed? Regardless of what the consequences are?


This kind of hyperlegalist mentality is how we get the Holocaust, you know.


Godwin's law. Also, Godwin's law. Not to mention the huge issue with saying that the holocaust was legal.
Last edited by Kekistonia on Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Lord Protector of Kekistani Republic .

COMMUNISM is a temporary setback on the road to FREEDOM! Better dead than RED! Also, YOUR MEMES ARE TRASH!

User avatar
Internationalist Bastard
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23301
Founded: Aug 09, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Internationalist Bastard » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:43 pm

Camphuys Islands wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:So what happened?

Dreamer loophole destroyed.

The loophole is that they are technically committing an offense for no reason, not somebody tried to give them a chance to not be punished for a technicality
Call me Alex, I insist
I am a girl, damnit
Slut Pride. So like, real talk, I’m a porn actress. We’re not all bimbos. I do not give out my information or videos to avoid conflict with site policy. I’m happy to talk about the industry or my thoughts on the career but I will not be showing you any goodies. Sorry
“Whatever you are, be a good one” Abe Lincoln

User avatar
Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 97102
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Democratic Socialists

Postby Farnhamia » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:44 pm

Staniel wrote:



So what? It still hasn't explicitly been told by the Supreme Court as to whether or not the children of illegal aliens are still allowed to become citizens. Assumptions are just that. Assumptions, not facts.

Except that these people are assumed to be and are treated as if they were. So are you going to tell all those people that their presumption that they were citizens was wrong, sorry, don't let the door hit you ... sorry, of course you will. Never mind.
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo| In support of Arch

User avatar
Camphuys Islands
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 65
Founded: Aug 28, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Camphuys Islands » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:45 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:
Camphuys Islands wrote:Dreamer loophole destroyed.

The loophole is that they are technically committing an offense for no reason, not somebody tried to give them a chance to not be punished for a technicality

It shouldn't be an excuse for just allowing everyone to move to a country. In Europe migrants who don't have a chance of actually being allowed to stay start having kids so that they can appeal to the 'humanity' of the population so that they can stay anyways.

It's hard but it's needed if you want a stable country.
The Commonwealth Realm of the Camphuys Islands
Loyal to Queen and Country since 1951.

Important facts:
England and Scotland are Better Together.
BREXIT is a good thing.
Northern Ireland is British, not 'Irish'.
Dutch, Reformed christian, and social-democratic.

A fan of good Prime Minister Willem Drees, God rest his soul.

User avatar
Valrifell
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17930
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:46 pm

Kekistonia wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
This kind of hyperlegalist mentality is how we get the Holocaust, you know.


Godwin's law. Not to mention the huge issue with saying that the holocaust was legal.


The Holocaust was legal under German law. Also, Godwins Law is an observation, not something you can throw in a conversation as a "nah-uh I win!" It's not a fallacious or inacurrate assertion.

People following orders and laws above basic morality and decency is how we get atrocities in the world.
Last edited by Valrifell on Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio
Our nation turns its lonely eyes to you

I did some things

User avatar
Steffan
Minister
 
Posts: 2537
Founded: May 22, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Steffan » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:46 pm

Damn, I'm five pages late! >:(
Lemme make a joke:
President Donald Trump :lol2:
"Criticism is a powerful force for good. Nothing ever improves without coming to terms with it's flaws. Without critics telling us what's stupid and what isn't, we'd all be wearing boulders for hats and drinking down hot Ebola soup for tea." - Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw

[_★_]_[' ]_
( -_-) (-_Q) If you understand that both Capitalism and Socialism have ideas that deserve merit, put this in your signature.

User avatar
Camphuys Islands
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 65
Founded: Aug 28, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Camphuys Islands » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:47 pm

Steffan wrote:Damn, I'm five pages late! >:(
Lemme make a joke:
President Donald Trump :lol2:

>Clinton Campaign

Try to beat that one :^)
The Commonwealth Realm of the Camphuys Islands
Loyal to Queen and Country since 1951.

Important facts:
England and Scotland are Better Together.
BREXIT is a good thing.
Northern Ireland is British, not 'Irish'.
Dutch, Reformed christian, and social-democratic.

A fan of good Prime Minister Willem Drees, God rest his soul.

User avatar
Internationalist Bastard
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23301
Founded: Aug 09, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Internationalist Bastard » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:47 pm

Camphuys Islands wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:The loophole is that they are technically committing an offense for no reason, not somebody tried to give them a chance to not be punished for a technicality

It shouldn't be an excuse for just allowing everyone to move to a country. In Europe migrants who don't have a chance of actually being allowed to stay start having kids so that they can appeal to the 'humanity' of the population so that they can stay anyways.

It's hard but it's needed if you want a stable country.

Dreamers are the ones who were born, not people who moved here and had kids
Call me Alex, I insist
I am a girl, damnit
Slut Pride. So like, real talk, I’m a porn actress. We’re not all bimbos. I do not give out my information or videos to avoid conflict with site policy. I’m happy to talk about the industry or my thoughts on the career but I will not be showing you any goodies. Sorry
“Whatever you are, be a good one” Abe Lincoln

User avatar
Kekistonia
Attaché
 
Posts: 98
Founded: Mar 02, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Kekistonia » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:48 pm

Camphuys Islands wrote:
Steffan wrote:Damn, I'm five pages late! >:(
Lemme make a joke:
President Donald Trump :lol2:

>Clinton Campaign

Try to beat that one :^)

yer mum
Lord Protector of Kekistani Republic .

COMMUNISM is a temporary setback on the road to FREEDOM! Better dead than RED! Also, YOUR MEMES ARE TRASH!

User avatar
Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 97102
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Democratic Socialists

Postby Farnhamia » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:49 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Kekistonia wrote:
Godwin's law. Not to mention the huge issue with saying that the holocaust was legal.


The Holocaust was legal under German law. Also, Godwins Law is an observation, not something you can throw in a conversation as a "nah-uh I win!" It's not a fallacious or inacurrate assertion.

People following orders and laws above basic morality and decency is how we get atrocities in the world.

And Nuremberg Principle II says, "The fact that internal law does not impose a penalty for an act which constitutes a crime under international law does not relieve the person who committed the act from responsibility under international law." One hopes we've advanced some since the 1930s and 1940s.
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo| In support of Arch

User avatar
Proctopeo
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7680
Founded: Sep 26, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Proctopeo » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:49 pm

Ism wrote:
Kekistonia wrote:It is unbelievable that people here are actually arguing against enforcing the law. This is undefendable.


Really? I would say it is indefensible to equate legality with morality. They should not be thought of as the same, and morality should always trump legality.

The largest obstacle when following morality is that it is subjective, and can be highly so. Whose morals do we follow when following morality?
Center-right libertarian LockeabooEconomic: 4.13
Meme addict :^)Social: -3.44
Manga is literatureWill probably retake once every month or so, last updated 10/9/2018
RIP Balk
Crockerland wrote:Yes, we are aware, the Israelis protect their civilians with weapons while the Palestinians protect their weapons with civilians.

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 10 Principalities, Angleter, Bears Armed, Big Jim P, Bunkhers, Cernaimara, Google Adsense [Bot], Heloin, Ifreann, Immoren, Infected Mushroom, Majestic-12 [Bot], Novus America, Ostroeuropa, Saiwania, Samudera Darussalam, Saranidia, SD_Film Artists, Skarten, Spunkland, The Hoosier Alliance, The Remant Army, Valrifell, Vassenor, Washington Resistance Army, Woodfiredpizzas

Advertisement

Remove ads