Nazi Vote and Free Video Games Scenario

[Zanera]

The games wouldn't really be free. They'd be worth a vote for a party of Nazis. And no, I would not accept that medium of exchange. Video games are not worth friggin' Nazis.

you think the Nazis will be elected just because of your deal?

Your one vote is that powerful?

By the strictest of principles, I would not vote for a political group that holds an ideology that inherently advocates for genocide. If my vote is sacred, then it only enhances that principle.

[Kash Island]

you think the Nazis will be elected just because of your deal?

Your one vote is that powerful?

By the strictest of principles, I would not vote for a political group that holds an ideology that inherently advocates for genocide. If my vote is sacred, then it only enhances that principle.

then work to change the ideology and party, that would be my goal.

[Gauthier]

Join the Nazi Party for free copies of Call of Duty and Wolfenstein just for the irony.

[Bombadil]

Absolutely. Free video games? Absolutely excellent deal. I could benefit from this on a daily basis.

One vote every year for the Nazis really won't do anything. However, I understand that many people would feel that their right to vote is sacred (even though statistics show that their one vote does nothing). My one vote cannot change anything, even though its advertised as sacred. So I gladly forsake it.

I assume you consider yourself above average intelligent, therefore you're accepting that there's many along with you who'd also do this deal even on the dumb assumption that it's just one vote..

..we know that 25% of any population is batshit insane on any given issue.. so one could extrapolate that there's probably 25% voting for this in any given population, which is handing a lot of power to a objectionable party, and that power is ad infinitum given you can't change per your hypothetical. One might argue they'd get more given there's batshit insane and then 'I get mine'.

You're basically saying I prefer Nazism to not getting free games.

I suspect that actually places you in the below average space on the spectrum but anyhoo.

thing is, the deal is only being offered to You, it says nothing about it being offered to everyone

why would you assume that?

Why would you assume it isn't.. and if it isn't then it's a rather pointless hypothetical - you're basically saying you'd sell your vote, but then if you will then you'd have to assume many others would.

[Kash Island]

thing is, the deal is only being offered to You, it says nothing about it being offered to everyone

why would you assume that?

Why would you assume it isn't.. and if it isn't then it's a rather pointless hypothetical - you're basically saying you'd sell your vote, but then if you will then you'd have to assume many others would.

if huge amounts of people make this deal then that would dynamically change the National Socialist Party, because, people will have a reason to get involved in party politics which would tear the whole "muh racism" to pieces.

[Zanera]

By the strictest of principles, I would not vote for a political group that holds an ideology that inherently advocates for genocide. If my vote is sacred, then it only enhances that principle.

then work to change the ideology and party, that would be my goal.

If they see the extermination of lesser peoples as a great plan that they would enact if they received any amount of power that would allow them to execute such actions, then I myself would think there is no question of reform. However, if you want to derail that kind of train in your universe, go ahead.

[Kash Island]

then work to change the ideology and party, that would be my goal.

If they see the extermination of lesser peoples as a great plan that they would enact if they received any amount of power that would allow them to execute such actions, then I myself would think there is no question of reform. However, if you want to derail that kind of train in your universe, go ahead.

^ see above post

[Torrocca]

Nope. Fuck the Nazis.

[Gauthier]

Nope. Fuck the Nazis.

They have those on some websites.

[Zanera]

If they see the extermination of lesser peoples as a great plan that they would enact if they received any amount of power that would allow them to execute such actions, then I myself would think there is no question of reform. However, if you want to derail that kind of train in your universe, go ahead.

^ see above post

Absolutely. Free video games? Absolutely excellent deal. I could benefit from this on a daily basis.

One vote every year for the Nazis really won't do anything. However, I understand that many people would feel that their right to vote is sacred (even though statistics show that their one vote does nothing). My one vote cannot change anything, even though its advertised as sacred. So I gladly forsake it.

I assume you consider yourself above average intelligent, therefore you're accepting that there's many along with you who'd also do this deal even on the dumb assumption that it's just one vote..

..we know that 25% of any population is batshit insane on any given issue.. so one could extrapolate that there's probably 25% voting for this in any given population, which is handing a lot of power to a objectionable party, and that power is ad infinitum given you can't change per your hypothetical. One might argue they'd get more given there's batshit insane and then 'I get mine'.

You're basically saying I prefer Nazism to not getting free games.

I suspect that actually places you in the below average space on the spectrum but anyhoo.

thing is, the deal is only being offered to You, it says nothing about it being offered to everyone

why would you assume that?

I am arguing within the restrictions of the hypothetical. IM means that only one person would have the possibility of receiving this deal in each person's own self-contained answer universe, and that is that one person.

[Albrenia]

Hell no to that deal.

The better side of me says that my one vote is one of the few duties that comes with being a free citizen, and I'm not going to sell it to anyone. Also giving -any- support to Nazis, no matter how small or ineffective, is too much for me to swallow.

The more selfish side of me would want a better deal than just some free games for my vote.

[The Grim Reaper]

I am obligated to repeat this otherwise it wouldn't be a fair presentation of the scenario.

Well, no. In fact, you made the presentation unfair by repeating it. The entire point of what you 'repeated' is, you contend, that the reader has a preexisting notion of the value of the vote.

The reason you repeated it is so you could make your opinion, presented immediately before in a neat little spoiler for dramatic tension, seem more contrarian, by espousing a fairly run-of-the-mill utilitarian viewpoint (as you have done over many threads, now) as if it were a genius critique of social norms that are entirely more appropriately and realistically covered through less extreme scenarios. See: voter suppression.

However, by chucking Nazis in there, you get to make yourself super duper contrarian despite also actively trying to minimize, as much as possible, the actual impact of the actions you are attesting to want to take.

Of fucking course utilitarianism makes sense over more normative frameworks if you're the only one who gets to make the goddamn choice. That's the definition of utilitarianism. Your entire proposition is that "I'm gonna vote for the Nazis solely because, statistically, a single vote doesn't matter". The reason people don't adhere to that is not because they're stupid and norms are stupid, but because making irrational decisions by taking social norms into account is itself a rational decision. It's the difference between elections where the only people who vote are running for office, and actual fucking elections.

I'm going to make a proposed amendment to the thread premise - what if, instead of the country you reside in, it was your /lowest/ level of government? Town mayorship, the sheriff - your union rep, the school club you're a member of. Boom, you were one of 10 voters in an election between Joe Bloggs and Adolf Praisehitler Reynolds (alias), but there's a sweet copy of every game ever up for grabs. Still a dumb question, but I'm interested to see how low we can go before you shy away from utilitarian purism for the sake of utilitarian purism.

[Dylin]

I think this thread is just plain silly. Who would ever vote for one of those far-left Nazis!?

[Kash Island]

I think this thread is just plain silly. Who would ever vote for one of those far-left Nazis!?

#Inb4triggering

[MERIZoC]

Gamers are untermenschen

[Genivaria]

I can live without video games thanks.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Fuck that noise.

[Sovaal]

In what ways is it a personal sacrifice? Usually when people talk about personal sacrifice they are talking about sometime noble, such as family or ideals. Material goods tho? Nah.

You know. People make personal sacrifices for their career or to get good grades, that sort of thing.

So things that improve their lives and provide benefit? So, yah. My answer is still the same.

[The Huskar Social Union]

No, thats fucking stupid, ill just buy video games i want when im able to like an adult.

Im not going to vote for a bunch of wankstains who want to murder people just for fucking video games.

[Infected Mushroom]

thing is, the deal is only being offered to You, it says nothing about it being offered to everyone

why would you assume that?

Why would you assume it isn't.. and if it isn't then it's a rather pointless hypothetical - you're basically saying you'd sell your vote, but then if you will then you'd have to assume many others would.

To clear up this ambiguity, I've clarified in the OP (newly added) that the deal is being offered to You only. So please take into consideration the difference (or non difference) that your one vote makes in addition to its symbolic value.

[Infected Mushroom]

I think this thread is just plain silly. Who would ever vote for one of those far-left Nazis!?

far left?

[Cetacea]

Please consider the following hypothetical:

You can make the following binding magical deal.

You will get free video games for the rest of your life (ex New Battlefield came out? You can snap your fingers and get a free copy).

However, as a consequence, you will be obligated to, for the rest of your life, vote for the party in your political system that resembles the Nazis at all and any given point in time. The party might be a small almost non existent group or it could be a somewhat major political party, it just depends on what country you live in. Any time an election comes up, the electoral machine will magically consider it a Done Deal that you've already voted for the "Nazi" party. For the rest of your life you will be adding 1 vote to the far right wing... For many people, this means that your right to vote is gone.

Please note, the deal is being offered to You only.

Remember what we've all been trained to think. Remember people, the right to vote is sacred. The right to vote (every one person's vote) is essential to the functioning of democracy and for the sake of freedom. The Founding Fathers died (or at least had other people die) so that we can all cast a piece of paper every once in a while to decide which rich popular kid will rule the town. I am obligated to repeat this otherwise it wouldn't be a fair presentation of the scenario. Having said that...

...

Do you accept or not accept the deal? Please explain your justification either way.

Absolutely. Free video games? Absolutely excellent deal. I could benefit from this on a daily basis.

One vote every year for the Nazis really won't do anything. However, I understand that many people would feel that their right to vote is sacred (even though statistics show that their one vote does nothing). My one vote cannot change anything, even though its advertised as sacred. So I gladly forsake it.

I'm so taking this deal
My country doesn't have a Nazi party and even if it did it is highly unlikely to make the voting threshhold even with my obligatory vote included
(the last one couldn't even get members of the local National Front to vote for it)

and just because they assume my vote doesn't mean I cant be actively opposed to them-, though that would mean I have even less time to actually play games

[Infected Mushroom]

Please consider the following hypothetical:

You can make the following binding magical deal.

You will get free video games for the rest of your life (ex New Battlefield came out? You can snap your fingers and get a free copy).

However, as a consequence, you will be obligated to, for the rest of your life, vote for the party in your political system that resembles the Nazis at all and any given point in time. The party might be a small almost non existent group or it could be a somewhat major political party, it just depends on what country you live in. Any time an election comes up, the electoral machine will magically consider it a Done Deal that you've already voted for the "Nazi" party. For the rest of your life you will be adding 1 vote to the far right wing... For many people, this means that your right to vote is gone.

Please note, the deal is being offered to You only.

Remember what we've all been trained to think. Remember people, the right to vote is sacred. The right to vote (every one person's vote) is essential to the functioning of democracy and for the sake of freedom. The Founding Fathers died (or at least had other people die) so that we can all cast a piece of paper every once in a while to decide which rich popular kid will rule the town. I am obligated to repeat this otherwise it wouldn't be a fair presentation of the scenario. Having said that...

...

Do you accept or not accept the deal? Please explain your justification either way.

Absolutely. Free video games? Absolutely excellent deal. I could benefit from this on a daily basis.

One vote every year for the Nazis really won't do anything. However, I understand that many people would feel that their right to vote is sacred (even though statistics show that their one vote does nothing). My one vote cannot change anything, even though its advertised as sacred. So I gladly forsake it.

I'm so taking this deal
My country doesn't have a Nazi party and even if it did it is highly unlikely to make the voting threshhold even with my obligatory vote included
(the last one couldn't even get members of the local National Front to vote for it)

and just because they assume my vote doesn't mean I cant be actively opposed to them-, though that would mean I have even less time to actually play games

makes good sense

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

No. Nazi ideology is much too repugnant to make free games for life worth it.

[Storhjaltland]

Getting free video games for life but sacrificing your vote to a small group of crackpots that would never take power, but even if they did, you would survive due to being a life-long voter?

Yes please.