You mean there was a recent election that had consequence that was decided by a single vote being cast in a certain direction?
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by Infected Mushroom » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:01 am
by Infected Mushroom » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:03 am
by Infected Mushroom » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:05 am
by Vassenor » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:05 am
by Infected Mushroom » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:06 am
Vassenor wrote:So basically this whole thing was meant to be about proving that people will sacrifice their principles for personal gain.
And it ain't happening.
by Alvecia » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:07 am
by Ifreann » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:11 am
by Alvecia » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:13 am
Ifreann wrote:Infected Mushroom wrote:
Hmmmm... you may have a point
I just find it interesting that in other threads you've espoused notions borrowed from Game Of Thrones about honour and loyalty to one's lord and king, but in this thread you're all about material gain overriding any sentimentality. Earlier in this thread you said you'd be loyal to King George if you'd lived in the Thirteen Colonies circa the American Revolution, based on...what? Just the fact that he's the king? No material benefit must be provided to buy your loyalty? You said you'd quarter soldiers in your house with pleasure, even though this would objectively cost you resources and you'd get nothing in return that you couldn't get for free down the local tavern every night. In another thread you seem to struggle with the idea that a police officer could have been in the wrong, because that runs contrary to your belief in the honour of the police. But in this thread you're talking about how it is objectively correct to take a bribe and anyone who doesn't do this is just being swayed by pro-democracy propaganda.
It's almost as though two people with starkly different views use this Infected Mushroom account.
by Infected Mushroom » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:16 am
Ifreann wrote:Infected Mushroom wrote:
Hmmmm... you may have a point
I just find it interesting that in other threads you've espoused notions borrowed from Game Of Thrones about honour and loyalty to one's lord and king, but in this thread you're all about material gain overriding any sentimentality. Earlier in this thread you said you'd be loyal to King George if you'd lived in the Thirteen Colonies circa the American Revolution, based on...what? Just the fact that he's the king? No material benefit must be provided to buy your loyalty? You said you'd quarter soldiers in your house with pleasure, even though this would objectively cost you resources and you'd get nothing in return that you couldn't get for free down the local tavern every night. In another thread you seem to struggle with the idea that a police officer could have been in the wrong, because that runs contrary to your belief in the honour of the police. But in this thread you're talking about how it is objectively correct to take a bribe and anyone who doesn't do this is just being swayed by pro-democracy propaganda.
It's almost as though two people with starkly different views use this Infected Mushroom account.
by Infected Mushroom » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:16 am
Alvecia wrote:Infected Mushroom wrote:
I'm not following
You asked me for a real world example of a hypothetical. If there were a real world example, I wouldn't need a hypothetical, would I?
I could be asking you to give me an example of anytime someone has been offered infinite games in return for voting Nazi's.
by Alvecia » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:18 am
Infected Mushroom wrote:Alvecia wrote:You asked me for a real world example of a hypothetical. If there were a real world example, I wouldn't need a hypothetical, would I?
I could be asking you to give me an example of anytime someone has been offered infinite games in return for voting Nazi's.
so then there aren't any?
Why should I hold on to my One Vote then (or anyone else)?
by Genivaria » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:20 am
Infected Mushroom wrote:Alvecia wrote:You asked me for a real world example of a hypothetical. If there were a real world example, I wouldn't need a hypothetical, would I?
I could be asking you to give me an example of anytime someone has been offered infinite games in return for voting Nazi's.
so then there aren't any?
Why should I hold on to my One Vote then (or anyone else)?
by Infected Mushroom » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:21 am
by Infected Mushroom » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:23 am
by Infected Mushroom » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:24 am
by Infected Mushroom » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:25 am
by Galloism » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:25 am
Infected Mushroom wrote:Galloism wrote:But enforcing that agreement would take more work than just voting, so that's a silly hypothetical. It's like saying "people could get together and agree to just exchange their stuff with each other in an equitable fashion and the outcome would remain unchanged compared with using money to trade".
Which they could. It's called bartering. Money is still useful.
Money may be useful, but a single penny is still relatively (or completely) useless.
If you had a strong and efficient machinery for mobilising thousands and millions of votes, then in such a situation, a form of voting can be useful.
However, it doesn't change the fact that a single vote is relatively (or completely) useless.
The hypothetical doesn't ask you to trade away the machinery (which in any event, only the rich and the party machines control), it asks you to trade away a single vote.
So the analogous version of this to money if we're to apply it to the hypothetical, would be a scenario that asks you to trade a single penny for infinite video games. Any arguments about how Money can be useful in other situation would be irrelevant.
In the same vein, its silly to assess the value of a single personal vote, with the assumption that it can somehow be mobilised collectively with thousands/millions of other votes when such things are monopolised by other powers outside of your control.
by Infected Mushroom » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:26 am
by Alvecia » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:27 am
Infected Mushroom wrote:Alvecia wrote:Then why did you ask for precedents of my hypothetical scenario?
Because the discussion isn't about your hypothetical situation, its about the one outlined in the OP. Hence the only scenario where a fact pattern you propose could be relevant to this situation is if it can be shown to be a realistic possibility (within the framework of the OP).
If you just wanted to discuss a different hypothetical for its own sake, I'd imagined you would start another thread. Because it's not got much to do with this thread I feel.
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