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Debate About a Hypothetical

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Shofercia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Debate About a Hypothetical

Postby Shofercia » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:09 pm

This is a hypo, so don't think about linking it to any particular person. Rather I'm doing this to see if a hotly debated point holds true. Telling you what the main point is right off the bat, well, that's just not fun for me. Everything in this hypothetical, is fictional, with the exceptions of actual countries mentioned.


Ten years ago Mrs. Jones was elected president in your country. Since then your living situation changed dramatically, and for the better. You used to struggle, living from paycheck to paycheck, but because of the economic improvement, in a large part due to Mrs. Jones policies, you now have a stable job, you live in a fairly comfortable apartment, you can finally afford healthcare treatment and you start yours, you get married, and you slowly started to raise a family. Your situation is not unique; in fact, (and since this is my hypo, you know this for a fact,) 2/3rds of the citizens have a story that is very similar to your own.

Mrs. Jones' policies of "doing whatever the fuck I want" internationally also raised the ire of the US, the EU, Russia, and China, and all countries sanctioned your country. However, because of the able leadership of Mrs. Jones' newly appointed Minister of Treasury, Mr. McDog, the sanctions barely affected you. When it comes to enforcement of the country's laws, they're strictly enforced, but sometimes party members can skate on something relatively minor, i.e. a car accident where no one was hurt.

Mrs. Jones also views a man's (or woman's) home as his/her castle, but behavior in public places is strictly regulated. Making out in a public place carries a fine, having sex can get you 120 hours of community service, and displays of sexuality are frowned upon. Mrs. Jones' friends have also taken control of the country's media, with the exception of the Internet, which is readily available to all citizens. Mrs. Jones refuses to regulate the Internet, with the exception of the basics, i.e. no videos on how to make meth or murder people. OJ Simpson is sanctioned from visiting your country. However Mrs. Jones uses the TV and radio to constantly badger the opposition by verbally assaulting their political viewpoints, but not their members. Immigrants must be educated, and are required to learn the country's language, but can speak in their own language whenever they want to do so. Border enforcement is quite strict.

Mrs. Jones is a Devout Christian, but will only provide public benefits to religious organizations, if they serve the community, and said service is diligently monitored. She supports buildings of Mosques, Churches, Synagogues, and even Chuchinagogues, provided that such centers take care of the homeless and provide an additional layer of the social safety net. Leaders of the Congregations receiving public benefits must live frugally. Her party controls the Legislative Branch, and although she sets the policies and they listen, there's an ample amount of healthy debate on how to best promote the policies; you once called your legislator, and he made your point during said debate, and it was accepted.

So - would you vote for Mrs. Jones? The living situation described above is your living situation. The opposition has better ideas suited to your needs, but you have no idea if the opposition will be able to successfully implement them.

I would vote for Mrs. Jones, because my financial situation is improving, and the Government is able to implement their goals, which affect me, and most of the country's citizenry, in a positive manner.
Last edited by Shofercia on Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MERIZoC
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby MERIZoC » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:12 pm

*doesnt read the post*

MISTER JONES IS FIRST AGAINST THE WALL

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USS Monitor
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Postby USS Monitor » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:15 pm

Depends who's running against her, what experience they have, how they present themselves, specifically what platform they're running on.
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Nouveau Yathrib
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Postby Nouveau Yathrib » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:22 pm

That largely depends on what the goals/platform of the opposition are, how much I find myself aligned with those goals, and how and specifically why Mrs. Jones' party opposes those goals. If I don't have a clear understanding of those goals, I would probably vote for Mrs. Jones.
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Shofercia
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Postby Shofercia » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:23 pm

USS Monitor wrote:Depends who's running against her, what experience they have, how they present themselves, specifically what platform they're running on.


The platform is one that agrees with your most important beliefs, for the most part. Regarding experience:

Candidate A: lots of political experience, but the candidate has never been a part of a working political coalition.

Candidate B: no political experience, stellar manager who never declared bankruptcy, has never been a part of a working political coalition.

Candidate C: lots of political experience, was a part of a coalition over 20 years ago, could not hold it together, was blamed for it falling apart.

Candidate D: lots of political experience, stellar manager, but also power hungry and funded by foreign countries; there is no way that other parties would support him enough to form a coalition with him, and his party winning it all is highly unlikely.

So to summarize: you agree with their platform on your most important beliefs, and on other issues for the most part, but there is quite a bit of doubt of their ability to form a working coalition in your mind, and to implement said policies.
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Shofercia
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Postby Shofercia » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:26 pm

Nouveau Yathrib wrote:That largely depends on what the goals/platform of the opposition are, how much I find myself aligned with those goals, and how and specifically why Mrs. Jones' party opposes those goals. If I don't have a clear understanding of those goals, I would probably vote for Mrs. Jones.


Their policies are very similar to what you want - but you are unsure of their ability to implement said policies. You also realize that even though the candidate and his/her party agree with your policies, the rest of the political establishment might not, which might lead to opposition and quagmire in the Legislature.

In this country the Legislature has 40% of the power, the Executive has 40% of the power, and the Judiciary has 20% of the power, in terms of political power. The Judiciary is old fashioned and reactionary.
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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:27 pm

Absolutely I'd vote for her.
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Nouveau Yathrib
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Nouveau Yathrib » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:39 pm

Shofercia wrote:
USS Monitor wrote:Depends who's running against her, what experience they have, how they present themselves, specifically what platform they're running on.


The platform is one that agrees with your most important beliefs, for the most part. Regarding experience:

Candidate A: lots of political experience, but the candidate has never been a part of a working political coalition.

Candidate B: no political experience, stellar manager who never declared bankruptcy, has never been a part of a working political coalition.

Candidate C: lots of political experience, was a part of a coalition over 20 years ago, could not hold it together, was blamed for it falling apart.

Candidate D: lots of political experience, stellar manager, but also power hungry and funded by foreign countries; there is no way that other parties would support him enough to form a coalition with him, and his party winning it all is highly unlikely.

So to summarize: you agree with their platform on your most important beliefs, and on other issues for the most part, but there is quite a bit of doubt of their ability to form a working coalition in your mind, and to implement said policies.



Shofercia wrote:
Nouveau Yathrib wrote:That largely depends on what the goals/platform of the opposition are, how much I find myself aligned with those goals, and how and specifically why Mrs. Jones' party opposes those goals. If I don't have a clear understanding of those goals, I would probably vote for Mrs. Jones.


Their policies are very similar to what you want - but you are unsure of their ability to implement said policies. You also realize that even though the candidate and his/her party agree with your policies, the rest of the political establishment might not, which might lead to opposition and quagmire in the Legislature.

In this country the Legislature has 40% of the power, the Executive has 40% of the power, and the Judiciary has 20% of the power, in terms of political power. The Judiciary is old fashioned and reactionary.


I would vote with the opposition if Mrs. Jones' policies directly contradict one of my core beliefs and would facilitate the development of a long-term threat to our country's and people's well-being. In that situation, I would prefer Candidates B or C.
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Shofercia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Shofercia » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:59 pm

Nouveau Yathrib wrote:I would vote with the opposition if Mrs. Jones' policies directly contradict one of my core beliefs and would facilitate the development of a long-term threat to our country's and people's well-being. In that situation, I would prefer Candidates B or C.


I listed her policies. Is there any contradiction between her policies and your core beliefs?
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Nouveau Yathrib
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Nouveau Yathrib » Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:48 pm

Shofercia wrote:
Nouveau Yathrib wrote:I would vote with the opposition if Mrs. Jones' policies directly contradict one of my core beliefs and would facilitate the development of a long-term threat to our country's and people's well-being. In that situation, I would prefer Candidates B or C.


I listed her policies. Is there any contradiction between her policies and your core beliefs?


No, but mostly because none of her policies directly touched on my core political beliefs. Can't say I approve of the media censorship, restrictions on civil liberties, or foreign policy, but their religious policy at least seems decent.

Without any more information on the opposition, it seems like Mrs. Jones' party could easily characterize itself as populist, which would allow Mrs. Jones to smear her political opponents and critics as elitist globalists.
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Republic of the Cristo
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Postby Republic of the Cristo » Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:51 pm

Actually, Mrs. Jones sounds pretty great to me; I would totally reelect her.
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Ex-Nation

Postby Colbert Super PAC » Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:53 pm

Ahuh, a "hypothetical".
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Xelsis
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Postby Xelsis » Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:56 pm

Shofercia wrote:
This is a hypo, so don't think about linking it to any particular person. Rather I'm doing this to see if a hotly debated point holds true. Telling you what the main point is right off the bat, well, that's just not fun for me. Everything in this hypothetical, is fictional, with the exceptions of actual countries mentioned.


Ten years ago Mrs. Jones was elected president in your country. Since then your living situation changed dramatically, and for the better. You used to struggle, living from paycheck to paycheck, but because of the economic improvement, in a large part due to Mrs. Jones policies, you now have a stable job, you live in a fairly comfortable apartment, you can finally afford healthcare treatment and you start yours, you get married, and you slowly started to raise a family. Your situation is not unique; in fact, (and since this is my hypo, you know this for a fact,) 2/3rds of the citizens have a story that is very similar to your own.

Mrs. Jones' policies of "doing whatever the fuck I want" internationally also raised the ire of the US, the EU, Russia, and China, and all countries sanctioned your country. However, because of the able leadership of Mrs. Jones' newly appointed Minister of Treasury, Mr. McDog, the sanctions barely affected you. When it comes to enforcement of the country's laws, they're strictly enforced, but sometimes party members can skate on something relatively minor, i.e. a car accident where no one was hurt.

Mrs. Jones also views a man's (or woman's) home as his/her castle, but behavior in public places is strictly regulated. Making out in a public place carries a fine, having sex can get you 120 hours of community service,and displays of sexuality are frowned upon. Mrs. Jones' friends have also taken control of the country's media, with the exception of the Internet, which is readily available to all citizens. Mrs. Jones refuses to regulate the Internet, with the exception of the basics, i.e. no videos on how to make meth or murder people. OJ Simpson is sanctioned from visiting your country. However Mrs. Jones uses the TV and radio to constantly badger the opposition by verbally assaulting their political viewpoints, but not their members. Immigrants must be educated, and are required to learn the country's language, but can speak in their own language whenever they want to do so. Border enforcement is quite strict.

Mrs. Jones is a Devout Christian, but will only provide public benefits to religious organizations, if they serve the community, and said service is diligently monitored. She supports buildings of Mosques, Churches, Synagogues, and even Chuchinagogues, provided that such centers take care of the homeless and provide an additional layer of the social safety net. Leaders of the Congregations receiving public benefits must live frugally. Her party controls the Legislative Branch, and although she sets the policies and they listen, there's an ample amount of healthy debate on how to best promote the policies; you once called your legislator, and he made your point during said debate, and it was accepted.

So - would you vote for Mrs. Jones? The living situation described above is your living situation. The opposition has better ideas suited to your needs, but you have no idea if the opposition will be able to successfully implement them.

I would vote for Mrs. Jones, because my financial situation is improving, and the Government is able to implement their goals, which affect me, and most of the country's citizenry, in a positive manner.


Umm, so, no babies? Or are you talking about sex in public here? Probably should clarify.
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Aellex
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Postby Aellex » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:07 pm

My Libertas is safe-kept, my personal situation is improving through her measures and my Nation is prospering too. Why the hell would I not vote for her?
The fact that this Madame Jones is very moral and seems almost De Gaulle-like is just an added bonus! :p
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Postby Godular » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:22 pm

Surprisingly, as an atheist I find myself in favor of most of her policies regarding churches and such, and for the most part I'd say she'd be a good use of my vote. Unless she has an issue with the non-religious that has not yet been mentioned.
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The Empire of Pretantia
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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:25 pm

I defect to the nearest free country because the brainwashing didn't work on me.
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Postby Roosevetania » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:28 pm

I would most likely vote against Mrs. Jones. I oppose brainwashing and authoritarianism, and religion has no place in government.
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Postby Imperium Sidhicum » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:10 pm

I wouldn't vote at all. If the country is doing fine as it is, I simply have no reason to, and if not, it's not like my vote would change anything.

I believe in serving the state and improving the community in more tangible ways realistically achievable by someone of my class and station.
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Shofercia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Shofercia » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:34 pm

Xelsis wrote:Umm, so, no babies? Or are you talking about sex in public here? Probably should clarify.


Talking about sex in public.


Colbert Super PAC wrote:Ahuh, a "hypothetical".


Yes, it is. If I was talking about Putin, Russia/China wouldn't have sanctioned the country.


Godular wrote:Surprisingly, as an atheist I find myself in favor of most of her policies regarding churches and such, and for the most part I'd say she'd be a good use of my vote. Unless she has an issue with the non-religious that has not yet been mentioned.


Nope, no issues. Mr. McDog is openly agnostic, and there was no discrimination against his rise; he simply rose based on merit, despite the name. The reason I didn't place all of this info in the OP, was because I didn't want it to come off as bloggy. The schools, K-12, have a Silent Minute before the start of the day, but no one is required to pray, salute the flag, etc. And no one is pressured into it. It's supposed to be a Minute of Reflection before the day starts.


The Empire of Pretantia wrote:I defect to the nearest free country because the brainwashing didn't work on me.


You would be free to go. There is no restriction on emigration, just pay your income tax to date, buy the plane/train/ship ticket, and go to the country of your choice. No need to flee.


Roosevetania wrote:I would most likely vote against Mrs. Jones. I oppose brainwashing and authoritarianism, and religion has no place in government.


The country holds elections. The elections are observed by whatever the UN body that observers elections is called; the voting booths are like old phone booths, and the only place that election monitors are not allowed to enter, is these booths once elections start, but they can enter the booths and inspect them for 30 minutes on a daily basis, before the voting begins.
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Xelsis
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Postby Xelsis » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:46 pm

Casting a vote against, then.
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Kanaria
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Postby Kanaria » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:49 pm

Fuck this stupid bitch and any politician irl like her. They can have my vote to go to the island of political retirees.

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Quency
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Postby Quency » Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:09 pm

Where's the downside?
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Chiggers
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Ex-Nation

Postby Chiggers » Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:10 pm

I likely would not have voted for her in the first place. While my living condition clearly got better, that doesn't change the fact that, given the information you have provided, she did little if nothing to prevent a NWO from taking place. What I care more about is how one's policies and actions can help delay or even stop a NWO situation, and whether or not they are exposing the world's governments for all their lies and deceit. I'd rather live in a world where my situation is the same as it is now, but all world governments have been thoroughly destroyed and rid of their rats, than live in a world where things are better for me, but the governments are still corrupt as hell. No amount of money is going to get me to forget about and stop deeply worrying about the direction this planet is going.

Also, funding religious organizations is a huge no-no to me.

I generally don't vote for people who I don't agree with on everything. Which is to say, I don't vote. But, if this hypothetical Mrs. Jones is someone who genuinely wants to cease corruption and has truly good intents, then I might consider it. I'd write a very strongly worded letter to her about ceasing to fund any and all religious organizations though.
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36 Camera Perspective
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Postby 36 Camera Perspective » Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:11 pm

Mrs. Jones sounds a lot like your perception of Putin, to be honest.
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The Empire of Pretantia
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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:11 pm

Quency wrote:Where's the downside?

It's a hypothetical and not irl.

Also, public benefits are only provided to religious organizations.
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