Catalonia Megathread: Should Catalonia Separate From Spain?

[Chestaan]

Not killing gay people is not a bad thing because it says it is on a piece of paper. It is on that piece of paper because it is a bad thing.

Didn't say anything about killing them.

They can choose whatever leader they like. What they can't do is commit human rights abuses. This really isn't hard. I'm for self-determination because it is democratic and there is no good reason to oppose it. I'm opposed to having governments ban religions or homosexuality, even if they want to, because they are human rights abuses.

You continue to claim to be for self determination despite including multiple exceptions.

Is breaking free from Spain a human rights abuse?

I never argued that.

But anyway, you're all for self-determination when it suits you.

I'm for self determination? That's funny coming from the guy arguing for self determination while also arguing voting for positions you don't like isn't self determination.

Killing them, banning them. Its all human rights abuses. But in any case you are deflecting. Banning homosexuality isn't bad because a piece of paper says so, the piece of paper says so because it is bad.

Its really quite simple. I like democracy and I think democracy is a good thing. Self-determination of a nation gets a plus because it's democratic and there are no negatives. Hence people should be allowed self-determination to have their own nation. Enacting laws that ban religion by popular vote get a plus because democracy but a huge negative because they violate basic human rights. Hence, as the negatives outweigh the positives, expect other nations to sanction you if you bring these laws into place.

If self-determination to choose your nation was a human rights abuse I would oppose it, since it's not I don't.

And yep, you support self-determination because you support US freedom from Britain. I'm keen to question you more on this but you seem to be avoiding this line of questioning like the plague. I wonder why?

[Socialist Czechia]

Too bad Catalonians are so peaceful.

It needs much more to make this proper national revolution.
Something in maoist or at least spartakist style.

Time to make CNT-FAI great again.

[Trumptonium]

Too bad Catalonians are so peaceful.

It needs much more to make this proper national revolution.
Something in maoist or at least spartakist style.

Thanks for confirming that Catalonia is no more than a Marxist cesspit deserving an iron boot.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

yeah, beating civilians is bad, m'kay?

I don't understand, I don't see them beating civilians.

Didn't say anything about killing them.

You continue to claim to be for self determination despite including multiple exceptions.

I never argued that.

I'm for self determination? That's funny coming from the guy arguing for self determination while also arguing voting for positions you don't like isn't self determination.

Killing them, banning them. Its all human rights abuses. But in any case you are deflecting. Banning homosexuality isn't bad because a piece of paper says so, the piece of paper says so because it is bad.

According to some people it is bad. In this scenario Alabama disagrees.

Its really quite simple. I like democracy and I think democracy is a good thing.

So do I. See my flag.

Self-determination of a nation gets a plus because it's democratic and there are no negatives.

Except in places like Iran where they banned homosexuality, but that's not "true self determination" I guess.

If self-determination to choose your nation was a human rights abuse I would oppose it, since it's not I don't.

Never said it was.

And yep, you support self-determination because you support US freedom from Britain. I'm keen to question you more on this but you seem to be avoiding this line of questioning like the plague. I wonder why?

No, supporting US Independence means I support US Independence. If I supported self determination then I'd be for every Texit, Scexit, Catexit, and Puerto Rexit that comes my way. I'd also condone Iran's governance if I wanted to be consistent.

[Socialist Czechia]

Too bad Catalonians are so peaceful.

It needs much more to make this proper national revolution.
Something in maoist or at least spartakist style.

Thanks for confirming that Catalonia is no more than a Marxist cesspit deserving an iron boot.

Thanks for confirming, that Spain needs Second Civil War to solve it's decade long continuing problems in culture, society and economy.

[Napkiraly]

Too bad Catalonians are so peaceful.

It needs much more to make this proper national revolution.
Something in maoist or at least spartakist style.

Time to make CNT-FAI great again.

Spartacist eh?

[Socialist Czechia]

yeah, beating civilians is bad, m'kay?

I don't understand, I don't see them beating civilians.

You can notice, that Catalonian policemen surely weren't discussing quality of foods with these Guardia Civil thugs. Like in other videos.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

I don't understand, I don't see them beating civilians.

You can notice, that Catalonian policemen surely weren't discussing quality of foods with these Guardia Civil thugs. Like in other videos.

And?

[Socialist Czechia]

Too bad Catalonians are so peaceful.

It needs much more to make this proper national revolution.
Something in maoist or at least spartakist style.

Time to make CNT-FAI great again.

Spartacist eh? That worked well last time

Thanks you too, for reminding, that revolutionaries must only shoot, shoot and shoot during Revolution, not to negoatiate with capitalist pigs, only waiting for moment to strike back

Political power comes from barrel of a gun, that worked, works and will always work

[Napkiraly]

Spartacist eh? That worked well last time

Thanks you too, for reminding, that revolutionaries must only shoot, shoot and shoot during Revolution, not to negoatiate with capitalist pigs, only waiting for moment to strike back

Political power comes from barrel of a gun, that worked, works and will always work

They did try shooting. Fortunately for the rest of others there were others shooting back.

[Trumptonium]

Thanks for confirming that Catalonia is no more than a Marxist cesspit deserving an iron boot.

Thanks for confirming, that Spain needs Second Civil War to solve it's decade long continuing problems in culture, society and economy.

We can only hope.

[Socialist Czechia]

Thanks you too, for reminding, that revolutionaries must only shoot, shoot and shoot during Revolution, not to negoatiate with capitalist pigs, only waiting for moment to strike back

Political power comes from barrel of a gun, that worked, works and will always work

They did try shooting. Fortunately for the rest of others there were others shooting back.

No, they waited too long, debating amongst themselves, making same mistake like communards in 1871.
Negoatiations are always a waste of time, either you manage to destabilize and destroy the whole structure or you die.

That's why Catalonians should also use their momentum well and either force Spain to recognize their wish or face the nasty consequences anyway.

[Kramania]

So who is oppressing them? They can already vote in Spanish elections, and they're an autonomous community so they already have more priveleges than most other Spanish regions.

The very fact that the Spanish have to give them concessions to keep them placated should be a good indicator that they don't belong in Spain.

Plenty of other countries have autonomous regions and don't have these issues. Autonomy isn't a sign of not belonging in a country. It's a just a sign that a certain people might have a distinct culture and/or history from the rest of the nation.

[Kramania]

So who is oppressing them? They can already vote in Spanish elections, and they're an autonomous community so they already have more priveleges than most other Spanish regions.

I believe I’ve already stated in this thread that I, personally, support Catalonia remaining in Spain.

But my opinion does not mean the matter is decided for the Catalonian people; they can vote for independence for any reason or none, as they individually wish. To prevent them voting on their own futures, that is oppression.

No. No it isn't. You can't vote on a moment's whim for anything you want. No democracy functions that way, and no democracy allows people to secede whenever they wish.

[Socialist Czechia]

The very fact that the Spanish have to give them concessions to keep them placated should be a good indicator that they don't belong in Spain.

Plenty of other countries have autonomous regions and don't have these issues. Autonomy isn't a sign of not belonging in a country. It's a just a sign that a certain people might have a distinct culture and/or history from the rest of the nation.

Distinct culture = (potential) sovereign nation.

Words 'only' and 'just' don't exist there.
Or you are prepared to say that Wallonians are French and Alsatians are Germans? I thought Austria was always Germany, as well.

[Soviet-mongol]

Too bad Catalonians are so peaceful.

It needs much more to make this proper national revolution.
Something in maoist or at least spartakist style.

Thanks for confirming that Catalonia is no more than a Marxist cesspit deserving an iron boot.

Did not George Orwell got shot there back in the Civil war?

[Socialist Czechia]

By the way, question for Aellex:

Shoudn't you actually, totally, support Catalonians now, to annex them later into Greater France? It happened before. And Catalonians always made remarks about being more French than Spanish.
Consume entire Spain proved to be a problem, but Barcelone? Why not?

Don't you want Region of Catalogne, of French Republic?

[Chestaan]

yeah, beating civilians is bad, m'kay?

I don't understand, I don't see them beating civilians.

Killing them, banning them. Its all human rights abuses. But in any case you are deflecting. Banning homosexuality isn't bad because a piece of paper says so, the piece of paper says so because it is bad.

According to some people it is bad. In this scenario Alabama disagrees.

Its really quite simple. I like democracy and I think democracy is a good thing.

So do I. See my flag.

Self-determination of a nation gets a plus because it's democratic and there are no negatives.

Except in places like Iran where they banned homosexuality, but that's not "true self determination" I guess.

If self-determination to choose your nation was a human rights abuse I would oppose it, since it's not I don't.

Never said it was.

And yep, you support self-determination because you support US freedom from Britain. I'm keen to question you more on this but you seem to be avoiding this line of questioning like the plague. I wonder why?

No, supporting US Independence means I support US Independence. If I supported self determination then I'd be for every Texit, Scexit, Catexit, and Puerto Rexit that comes my way. I'd also condone Iran's governance if I wanted to be consistent.

Like I said about sixty times now, there are clear drawbacks to human rights abuses that are not present when allowing citizens the right to self-determination.

Apart from pure bias, why should the US have been allowed independence but Catalonia doesn't get that right?

[Dooom35796821595]

I don't understand, I don't see them beating civilians.

According to some people it is bad. In this scenario Alabama disagrees.

So do I. See my flag.

Except in places like Iran where they banned homosexuality, but that's not "true self determination" I guess.

Never said it was.

No, supporting US Independence means I support US Independence. If I supported self determination then I'd be for every Texit, Scexit, Catexit, and Puerto Rexit that comes my way. I'd also condone Iran's governance if I wanted to be consistent.

Like I said about sixty times now, there are clear drawbacks to human rights abuses that are not present when allowing citizens the right to self-determination.

Apart from pure bias, why should the US have been allowed independence but Catalonia doesn't get that right?

Americas independance was, and still is an act of sedition. Why do you think US defense spending is so high, it knows that the UK is just biding it's time before it retakes its most troublesome territory.

[Kramania]

Plenty of other countries have autonomous regions and don't have these issues. Autonomy isn't a sign of not belonging in a country. It's a just a sign that a certain people might have a distinct culture and/or history from the rest of the nation.

Distinct culture = (potential) sovereign nation.

Words 'only' and 'just' don't exist there.
Or you are prepared to say that Wallonians are French and Alsatians are Germans? I thought Austria was always Germany, as well.

Doesn't mean anything. Having a distinct culture doesn't mean you get your own country.

And yes, Austrians are literally French. They just think they're different cause they have a separate history. But at the end of the day they're German.

[The of Japan]

Distinct culture = (potential) sovereign nation.

Words 'only' and 'just' don't exist there.
Or you are prepared to say that Wallonians are French and Alsatians are Germans? I thought Austria was always Germany, as well.

Doesn't mean anything. Having a distinct culture doesn't mean you get your own country.

And yes, Austrians are literally French. They just think they're different cause they have a separate history. But at the end of the day they're German.

like the kurds, haven't had a state in a millenium

[Socialist Czechia]

And yes, Austrians are literally French. They just think they're different cause they have a separate history. But at the end of the day they're German.

So, are Austrians French or Germans? I see you're confused too, who's belonging where to whom

[The Empire of Pretantia]

I don't understand, I don't see them beating civilians.

According to some people it is bad. In this scenario Alabama disagrees.

So do I. See my flag.

Except in places like Iran where they banned homosexuality, but that's not "true self determination" I guess.

Never said it was.

No, supporting US Independence means I support US Independence. If I supported self determination then I'd be for every Texit, Scexit, Catexit, and Puerto Rexit that comes my way. I'd also condone Iran's governance if I wanted to be consistent.

Like I said about sixty times now, there are clear drawbacks to human rights abuses that are not present when allowing citizens the right to self-determination.

Apart from pure bias, why should the US have been allowed independence but Catalonia doesn't get that right?

There's literally an entire document that explained why the US should have been allowed Independence. Catalonia's reasons are,"Because we want to."

[Socialist Czechia]

Doesn't mean anything. Having a distinct culture doesn't mean you get your own country.

And yes, Austrians are literally French. They just think they're different cause they have a separate history. But at the end of the day they're German.

like the kurds, haven't had a state in a millenium

Since Jews regained their ancient homeland, not in their control almost 2000 years, i think even Welshmen and Scotsmen now can claim entire Britain with claim, that it's under Germanic occupation

And Swedes, give us back all our stuff you stole in Prague during Thirty Years War! Would you kindly?

[The of Japan]

like the kurds, haven't had a state in a millenium

Since Jews regained their ancient homeland, not in their control almost 2000 years, i think even Welshmen and Scotsmen now can claim entire Britain with claim, that it's under Germanic occupation

And Swedes, give us back all our stuff you stole in Prague during Thirty Years War! Would you kindly?

huh? I was just saying that there are other more distinct ethnic groups that haven't had a state of their own in a ridiculously long time.