Catalonia Megathread: Should Catalonia Separate From Spain?

[NeuPolska]

Slovenia fought against a collapsing failure of a state, in which case, its independence was a given, and Luxembourg is tough to lump into the same category as Slovenia or Catalonia. Luxembourg also had the benefit of being immensely fortified at the time as well. The Catalans would be facing well-funded professional, modern armies. On top of it, there are Catalans who are clearly against independence, shown in this Reuters article.

If there are so many Catalans against independence why is the National govnerment sending the police force to stop the vote ?

Because there are also many Catalans for independence.

The point of my post was to show that Catalans are not all united in their cry for independence.

[Soviet-mongol]

If there are so many Catalans against independence why is the National govnerment sending the police force to stop the vote ?

Because there are also many Catalans for independence.

The point of my post was to show that Catalans are not all united in their cry for independence.

About 70% of population of Catalonia are descendants of spanish immigrants. The ethnic Catalans who are a minority are all in favor of independence.

[Farnhamia]

Because there are also many Catalans for independence.

The point of my post was to show that Catalans are not all united in their cry for independence.

About 70% of population of Catalonia are descendants of spanish immigrants. The ethnic Catalans who are a minority are all in favor of independence.

All of them?

[Polar Svalbard]

What's the difference between ethnic Catalans and the Spanish?

[Farnhamia]

What's the difference between ethnic Catalans and the Spanish?

Can't say genetically but linguistically, quite a bit.

[Soviet-mongol]

About 70% of population of Catalonia are descendants of spanish immigrants. The ethnic Catalans who are a minority are all in favor of independence.

All of them?

Yes. It is a Wonder that the independence movement reached even 40% of support among the population.

[Soviet-mongol]

What's the difference between ethnic Catalans and the Spanish?

different language, culture and so on. Also not the term "Spanish" is also artifical. You must think actually about Castillians as they are the dominanr in Spain. And the spanish language is in fact castillian language.

[NeuPolska]

Spain is just such an interesting country in general, every city seems to have its own distinct culture and history, though that still doesn't mean each should have the right to become independent. If it came down to it, each region ruling itself but with the Spanish King has head of state wouldn't be a bad compromise, so long as they were all bound to a centralized military as well. That's only if they truly want to split anyway, which the referendum results will show, at least for Catalonia.

[Aboim]

If there are so many Catalans against independence why is the National govnerment sending the police force to stop the vote ?

Because Drama is life.

[Farnhamia]

All of them?

Yes. It is a Wonder that the independence movement reached even 40% of support among the population.

Every single "ethnic Catalan" is for independence, without exception, all of them, every one?

[Soviet-mongol]

Yes. It is a Wonder that the independence movement reached even 40% of support among the population.

Every single "ethnic Catalan" is for independence, without exception, all of them, every one?

Maybe not all, but the average native Catalan yes indeed.

[NeuPolska]

Sounds too much like "No True Scotsman" for my taste

[Liriena]

At this point... yeah, I'd support an independent Catalonia.

[Farnhamia]

At this point... yeah, I'd support an independent Catalonia.

May I ask why?

[The of Japan]

What's the difference between ethnic Catalans and the Spanish?

different language, culture and so on. Also not the term "Spanish" is also artifical. You must think actually about Castillians as they are the dominanr in Spain. And the spanish language is in fact castillian language.

most of spain follows castillian dialect, correct. just like most of france follows francien dialect from Paris.

[Liriena]

At this point... yeah, I'd support an independent Catalonia.

May I ask why?

There might be a partisan bias at play on my part (I really, really, really don't like Rajoy), and I haven't paid enough attention to the issue as a whole (which I should have). Nevertheless, I lean towards believing that the Catalanes deserve at least greater autonomy from the central Spanish state. From what I've seen, the Spanish system of government has not been very accomodating towards Spain's historical cultural and linguistic diversity (or at least in the case of the Catalanes), and to the centralist attitudes of some Spanish governments we now have to add a rather overt unilateral authoritarianism. There is no denying that the Spanish constitution explicitly limits the possibility of Catalonia gaining greater autonomy, or outright independence, through popular vote, but that does not make it just.

[The of Japan]

May I ask why?

There might be a partisan bias at play on my part (I really, really, really don't like Rajoy), and I haven't paid enough attention to the issue as a whole (which I should have). Nevertheless, I lean towards believing that the Catalanes deserve at least greater autonomy from the central Spanish state. From what I've seen, the Spanish system of government has not been very accomodating towards Spain's historical cultural and linguistic diversity, and to the centralist attitudes of some Spanish governments we now have to add a rather overt unilateral authoritarianism. There is no denying that the Spanish constitution explicitly limits the possibility of Catalonia gaining greater autonomy, or outright independence, through popular vote, but that does not make it just.

rajoy's rivals Oppose Catalonian independence.

[Liriena]

There might be a partisan bias at play on my part (I really, really, really don't like Rajoy), and I haven't paid enough attention to the issue as a whole (which I should have). Nevertheless, I lean towards believing that the Catalanes deserve at least greater autonomy from the central Spanish state. From what I've seen, the Spanish system of government has not been very accomodating towards Spain's historical cultural and linguistic diversity, and to the centralist attitudes of some Spanish governments we now have to add a rather overt unilateral authoritarianism. There is no denying that the Spanish constitution explicitly limits the possibility of Catalonia gaining greater autonomy, or outright independence, through popular vote, but that does not make it just.

rajoy's rivals Oppose Catalonian independence.

Are we talking about the PSOE?

[The of Japan]

rajoy's rivals Oppose Catalonian independence.

Are we talking about the PSOE?

Is that the other major party in spain? if so, then Yes.

[MERIZoC]

Yes, America will nuke Catalonia. You seem like a smart and authoritative person to go to on matters of international affairs.

Nuclear powers tend to have large militaries. That's what I was getting at. The fledgling nation of Catalonia wouldn't last long against France, UK, USA, Germany, Spain, and Poland.

You're delusional.

[Senkaku]

So what we're basically seeing here is that the Spanish government hates democracy.

Either that, or this guy has risen from the death...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axByUFSa7N8

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Nuclear powers tend to have large militaries. That's what I was getting at. The fledgling nation of Catalonia wouldn't last long against France, UK, USA, Germany, Spain, and Poland.

You're delusional.

Can Spain hold off the military action for another eighteen months? I wanna get some of that Spanish peacemaking action.

[Costa Fierro]

Nevertheless, I lean towards believing that the Catalanes deserve at least greater autonomy from the central Spanish state.

In what areas? Catalonia already has a separate government, laws, taxes, government budget, law enforcement, education, healthcare. Basically everything they need to become a separate state. They don't have control over defence or foreign affairs, or whatever else the central government in Madrid has powers over (which is three fifths of fuck all).

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

Today is going to be fun...
(Just look at GMT date and time)

Edit: Just realised it's 1 October where the NS servers are!!!

[MERIZoC]

https://twitter.com/Pablo_Iglesias_/status/914401890682761216?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fworld%2Flive%2F2017%2Foct%2F01%2Fcatalan-independence-referendum-spain-catalonia-vote-live