Catalonia Megathread: Should Catalonia Separate From Spain?

[Farnhamia]

Moreover, Catalonians can still elect another government in Madrid with other legal interpretation, which is probably the real reason for this in many cases. The Rajoy’s strategy seems unintelligent; however, he is far away from fascism. On the other hand, what can arises from this I don't know

Well, that is not quite true. The majority of votes that elects the government in Madrid comes from rest of Spain who are in favour of independence.

Good, they can amend the Spanish constitution and set the Catalans free. *wipes away a tear*

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Good, they can amend the Spanish constitution and set the Catalans free. *wipes away a tear*

>letting the Catalans go free
God I hope that never happens, independence movements can be annoying tho.

[Farnhamia]

Good, they can amend the Spanish constitution and set the Catalans free. *wipes away a tear*

>letting the Catalans go free
God I hope that never happens, independence movements can be annoying tho.

I know, the last time they ravaged the Aegean.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

I know, the last time they ravaged the Aegean.

Pesky little shits aren't they?

[Soviet-mongol]

Well, that is not quite true. The majority of votes that elects the government in Madrid comes from rest of Spain who are in favour of independence.

Good, they can amend the Spanish constitution and set the Catalans free. *wipes away a tear*

The only thing what is left to them is to start an armed inserection. There is no a single nation that achieved independence without a little spoiled blood.

[NeuPolska]

Good, they can amend the Spanish constitution and set the Catalans free. *wipes away a tear*

The only thing what is left to them is to start an armed inserection. There is no a single nation that achieved independence without a little spoiled blood.

Last I checked Catalonia is not supported by any members of the EU, so if there was any actual fighting, the professional Spanish army along with probably the French and German armies would put a stop to it. Catalonia is too small of a region to put up a good enough fight to get independence.

[Aboim]

So when did using force to silence dissent become democratic?

When dissents could elect a government that respect the articles 92 and 168 from Constitution but to prefer the force and an illegal referendum, because they want to embarass the central government for a lowering taxes. Then the force become democratic, unfortunately.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

The only thing what is left to them is to start an armed inserection. There is no a single nation that achieved independence without a little spoiled blood.

Except for, you know, Australia and New Zealand — all of which, for all intents and purposes, are independent nation states that govern themselves. When you say "spoiled blood", and when taking into account the context of the previous posts, I can only presume you're referring to fighting.

[Soviet-mongol]

The only thing what is left to them is to start an armed inserection. There is no a single nation that achieved independence without a little spoiled blood.

Except for, you know, Australia and New Zealand — all of which, for all intents and purposes, are independent nation states that govern themselves.

Did UK oppose their independence? It seems also there never had any referendum on independence.

[Sanctissima]

The only thing what is left to them is to start an armed inserection. There is no a single nation that achieved independence without a little spoiled blood.

Except for, you know, Australia and New Zealand — all of which, for all intents and purposes, are independent nation states that govern themselves.

Or Canada, for that matter.

Or pretty much the entirety of the Commonwealth.

Or most former Soviet states.

Or half of Africa.

[Soviet-mongol]

The only thing what is left to them is to start an armed inserection. There is no a single nation that achieved independence without a little spoiled blood.

Last I checked Catalonia is not supported by any members of the EU, so if there was any actual fighting, the professional Spanish army along with probably the French and German armies would put a stop to it. Catalonia is too small of a region to put up a good enough fight to get independence.

I would not say this. There are good examples of smaller states doing good.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Did UK oppose their independence? It seems also there never had any referendum on independence.

British Parliament passed legislation allowing the Australian colonies govern in their own right as part of the Commonwealth of Australia. Contrary to what you said, it was entirely peaceful, and there was, as far as I can tell, little to no bad blood.

[NeuPolska]

Last I checked Catalonia is not supported by any members of the EU, so if there was any actual fighting, the professional Spanish army along with probably the French and German armies would put a stop to it. Catalonia is too small of a region to put up a good enough fight to get independence.

I would not say this. There are good examples of smaller states doing good.

Would you be able to give me a couple of those examples so that we're on the same page?

[Thermodolia]

The only thing what is left to them is to start an armed inserection. There is no a single nation that achieved independence without a little spoiled blood.

Last I checked Catalonia is not supported by any members of the EU, so if there was any actual fighting, the professional Spanish army along with probably the French and German armies would put a stop to it. Catalonia is too small of a region to put up a good enough fight to get independence.

Don't forget NATO of which Spain is a member. I'm sure the last thing Catalonia wants is three nuclear powers against them. Especially when they don't have a military.

[NeuPolska]

Last I checked Catalonia is not supported by any members of the EU, so if there was any actual fighting, the professional Spanish army along with probably the French and German armies would put a stop to it. Catalonia is too small of a region to put up a good enough fight to get independence.

Don't forget NATO of which Spain is a member. I'm sure the last thing Catalonia wants is three nuclear powers against them. Especially when they don't have a military.

Oh yes, I sort of have a tendency of lumping the EU with NATO, or at least, European NATO.

[Thermodolia]

So when did using force to silence dissent become democratic?

Oh dear, the Spanish are trying to enforce their constitution. What is the world coming to?

It's almost as if democracy is more complicated than simple knee-jerk pacifism, and actually amounts to more than just appeasing separatists every time they want to break away and create their own country.

Oh the humanity!! Someone is trying to enforce the law!! Whatever shall we do?!

[MERIZoC]

Last I checked Catalonia is not supported by any members of the EU, so if there was any actual fighting, the professional Spanish army along with probably the French and German armies would put a stop to it. Catalonia is too small of a region to put up a good enough fight to get independence.

Don't forget NATO of which Spain is a member. I'm sure the last thing Catalonia wants is three nuclear powers against them. Especially when they don't have a military.

Yes, America will nuke Catalonia. You seem like a smart and authoritative person to go to on matters of international affairs.

[Thermodolia]

Don't forget NATO of which Spain is a member. I'm sure the last thing Catalonia wants is three nuclear powers against them. Especially when they don't have a military.

Oh yes, I sort of have a tendency of lumping the EU with NATO, or at least, European NATO.

I'm sure the Polish could use some urban training if Catalonia violently leaves

[Thermodolia]

Don't forget NATO of which Spain is a member. I'm sure the last thing Catalonia wants is three nuclear powers against them. Especially when they don't have a military.

Yes, America will nuke Catalonia. You seem like a smart and authoritative person to go to on matters of international affairs.

Nuclear powers tend to have large militaries. That's what I was getting at. The fledgling nation of Catalonia wouldn't last long against France, UK, USA, Germany, Spain, and Poland.

[Soviet-mongol]

I would not say this. There are good examples of smaller states doing good.

Would you be able to give me a couple of those examples so that we're on the same page?

Slovenia, Luxembourg... also, note that Catalonia has the same population size as Hungary and even more than Slovakia.

[Soviet-mongol]

Did UK oppose their independence? It seems also there never had any referendum on independence.

British Parliament passed legislation allowing the Australian colonies govern in their own right as part of the Commonwealth of Australia. Contrary to what you said, it was entirely peaceful, and there was, as far as I can tell, little to no bad blood.

But they were not independent back than. They were a dominion the whole time. It seems this all happened because the Brits were not able to keep their Empire after world war II. This all proves my point.

[Thermodolia]

Would you be able to give me a couple of those examples so that we're on the same page?

Slovenia, Luxembourg... also, note that Catalonia has the same population size as Hungary and even more than Slovakia.

Luxembourg is so tiny that nobody gives a shit. Besides it was occupied during both World Wars.

And not everyone is going to fight in the military. The vast majority would probably flee to Spain before the bombings began.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

But they were not independent back than. [...]

Yes we were, we became an independent nationstate as of 1901, the year that legislative was passed, we've followed the UK all this time out of pure loyalty and the number of advantages it offered us.

[...]They were a dominion the whole time.[...]

We haven't been a dominion since before 1901.

[...]It seems this all happened because the Brits were not able to keep their Empire after world war II. This all proves my point.

It really doesn't, we were independent long before the Second World War — we followed them into those wars out of pure loyalty, and for the fact that following them around offered us so many pros.

[NeuPolska]

Would you be able to give me a couple of those examples so that we're on the same page?

Slovenia, Luxembourg... also, note that Catalonia has the same population size as Hungary and even more than Slovakia.

Slovenia fought against a collapsing failure of a state, in which case, its independence was a given, and Luxembourg is tough to lump into the same category as Slovenia or Catalonia. Luxembourg also had the benefit of being immensely fortified at the time as well. The Catalans would be facing well-funded professional, modern armies. On top of it, there are Catalans who are clearly against independence, shown in this Reuters article.

[Greed and Death]

Slovenia, Luxembourg... also, note that Catalonia has the same population size as Hungary and even more than Slovakia.

Slovenia fought against a collapsing failure of a state, in which case, its independence was a given, and Luxembourg is tough to lump into the same category as Slovenia or Catalonia. Luxembourg also had the benefit of being immensely fortified at the time as well. The Catalans would be facing well-funded professional, modern armies. On top of it, there are Catalans who are clearly against independence, shown in this Reuters article.

If there are so many Catalans against independence why is the National govnerment sending the police force to stop the vote ?