Catalonia Megathread: Should Catalonia Separate From Spain?

[Pasong Tirad]

France has been like that for awhile. The mediterranean regions of Algeria where considered an integral part of France for years.

Aye, perhaps that's why France had several post-WW2 colonial wars. That and because its attempt at Le Commonwèalth failed..

Also maybe because attempting to suppress self-determination almost always ends up reaching a boiling point and then boom boom

[Socialist Czechia]

I've always been partial to an independent Occitania and Brittany. France seems to like taking the Chinese route when it comes to minority cultures, only with less violence.

Only with less violence. Hahaha have you seen the French police? They aren't all cute and cuddly

But kepis were cute and glorious at same time.
Soon, there will be no kepis, I suppose.

[Cekoviu]

I don't really have an opinion one way or the other, as I'm not informed about Spanish politics. I'll support whatever democracy chooses, but the vote with 43% turnout is not democratic.

[Pasong Tirad]

I don't really have an opinion one way or the other, as I'm not informed about Spanish politics. I'll support whatever democracy chooses, but the vote with 43% turnout is not democratic.

It was democratic, though. It was heavily (was it heavy? I'm not entirely sure) suppressed by the Guardia Civil, but it was democratic. Puidgemont believing the referendum to be binding even though the turnout was less than 50% + 1 of registered voters, however, is not democratic.

[Tananat]

I've always been partial to an independent Occitania and Brittany. France seems to like taking the Chinese route when it comes to minority cultures, only with less violence.

Part of the reason why I like France is that it's very unified. Even its overseas territories have seats in the central government rather than being semi-independent like Britain's.

France is very unified because they suppressed pretty heavily all the local cultures and languages and identities, which considering the topic of this thread, might've been the way to go >_>

[Saint-Thor]

France has been like that for awhile. The mediterranean regions of Algeria where considered an integral part of France for years.

Aye, perhaps that's why France had several post-WW2 colonial wars. That and because its attempt at Le Commonwèalth failed..

What you call "Le Commonwealth" is actually named Organisation internationale de la Francophonie, regrouping 54 official members (two more than the Commonwealth), including my country, Canada. Can't say it's a failed attempt.

[Purpelia]

I don't really have an opinion one way or the other, as I'm not informed about Spanish politics. I'll support whatever democracy chooses, but the vote with 43% turnout is not democratic.

That's 43% in spite of the whole thing being violently suppressed by the Spanish government.

[SD_Film Artists]

Aye, perhaps that's why France had several post-WW2 colonial wars. That and because its attempt at Le Commonwèalth failed..

Also maybe because attempting to suppress self-determination almost always ends up reaching a boiling point and then boom boom

Or a vote.

Part of the reason why I like France is that it's very unified. Even its overseas territories have seats in the central government rather than being semi-independent like Britain's.

France is very unified because they suppressed pretty heavily all the local cultures and languages and identities, which considering the topic of this thread, might've been the way to go >_>

Yup, promoting arbitrary ideas of 'us and them' tends to result in disunity.

Aye, perhaps that's why France had several post-WW2 colonial wars. That and because its attempt at Le Commonwèalth failed..

What you call "Le Commonwealth" is actually named Organisation internationale de la Francophonie, regrouping 54 official members (two more than the Commonwealth), including my country, Canada. Can't say it's a failed attempt.

Really. I thought I heard in a documentary that France wanted to start a Commonwealth but it didn't get off the ground. Is the OIF as closely linked as the Commonwealth? I mean do you have sporting events together? And I mean events specifically linked to the OIF, not just any events which happen between France and a Francophone country.

Also, Canada is in two clubs? Didn't know you could do that

[Saint-Thor]

Also maybe because attempting to suppress self-determination almost always ends up reaching a boiling point and then boom boom

Or a vote.

France is very unified because they suppressed pretty heavily all the local cultures and languages and identities, which considering the topic of this thread, might've been the way to go >_>

Yup, promoting arbitrary ideas of 'us and them' tends to result in disunity.

What you call "Le Commonwealth" is actually named Organisation internationale de la Francophonie, regrouping 54 official members (two more than the Commonwealth), including my country, Canada. Can't say it's a failed attempt.

Really. I thought I heard in a documentary that France wanted to start a Commonwealth but it didn't get off the ground. Is the OIF as closely linked as the Commonwealth? I mean do you have sporting events together? And I mean events specifically linked to the OIF, not just any events which happen between France and a Francophone country.

Also, Canada is in two clubs? Didn't know you could do that

The OIF and the Commonwealth basically share the same objectives and promote the same kind of values. Unlike the Commonwealth (represented by Queen Elizabeth II), its leader is elected every four years. The current secretary general is Michaëlle Jean, former Governor General of Canada. Yes they have their own sporting events (Les Jeux de la francophonie every 4 years). Canada is a member of both organisations like 10 other countries. Québec and New-Brunswick count as two separate members. So you have Canada, Québec and New Brunswick.

[Aellex]

Aye, perhaps that's why France had several post-WW2 colonial wars. That and because its attempt at Le Commonwèalth failed..

Perhaps it's also why unlike Britain we still have an actual (Neo-)Colonial Empire even today with la Françafrique rather than a mere LARP club all about desperately trying to cling to our past glory days of Imperialism. :^)
Also, as Saint-Thor pointed out, we do have an equivalent to the Commonwealth which is called la Francophonie and actually get shit done when it comes to projecting our culture.

[Principat de Catalunya Lliure]

The Catalan president, Carles Puigdemont, has given a televised speech in response to Spanish President Mariano Rajoy’s actions. In the discourse, he condemned the Spanish government’s actions and called for a Catalan Parliament plenary meeting to discuss a response to the measures taken by Madrid.

The Catalan parliament plenary is scheduled to take place this thursday. In the session, the main issue to be addressed will be what actions Catalonia will take after Mariano Rajoy officially announced on Saturday October 21 the activation of Article 155, the so-called “nuclear option” in the Spanish constitution. Article 155 stipulates that the Spanish government will effectively seize Catalonia’s self-government, and it will go into effect following ratification by the Senate, scheduled for Friday October 27. One of the options on the table for the Catalan Parliament will be a unilateral declaration of independence for Catalonia.

Puigdemont’s televised speech began at 9 pm. In it, he began by introducing the current situation, saying that any attempt at dialogue with the Spanish government from Catalonia “has had the same answer – silence of repression” from Madrid. This, while he explained that he “reiterated the need for dialogue” in correspondence to the Spanish government.

Carles Puigdemont deemed that the activation of Article 155 is “the worst attack on the institutions and the people of Catalonia since the decrees of the military dictator Francisco Franco.” He insists that the action from Spain shows a disregard for the will of the Catalan people “expressed clearly and massively on September 27 2015,” referring to the Catalan elections. This, because Catalan elected officials will be replaced by Spanish ones following the foreseen implementation of Article 155.

The Catalan president also explained that this wasn’t the first time that “Catalan institutions” received a “blow” from the Spanish government in order to “cut them down, re-direct them or directly to eliminate them.” Despite all of this, though, Puigdemont then reminded his audience of how each time, the Catalan people have come back “stronger” and more “determined.” Indeed, he noted that the “hegemonic ideas” of Catalonia “have always been the same” throughout the centuries.

While having given most of the speech in Catalan and in Spanish, Puigdemont ended his discourse in English. He addressed Europe – its political leaders, he said, but “especially Europan citizens.”

If European “values are at risk in Catalonia,” he said, “they will also be at risk in Europe.” He further noted that “democratically deciding the future of a nation is not a crime,” and that considering it as such and actions on October 21 and before go “against foundations that unite EU citizens through their diversity.”

He insisted, in his speech, that Catalonia is “at its core” European “in its values.” “We do what we do,” he explained, “because we believe in a democratic and peaceful Europe,” one that he expressed “should protect each and every one of us.” He ended by stating that what his viewers from all over Europe were “fighting for at home,” is also being fought for in Catalonia. “And we will continue to do so,” he concluded.

[Aellex]

I've always been partial to an independent Occitania and Brittany. France seems to like taking the Chinese route when it comes to minority cultures, only with less violence.

:^)

[Myfanwyski]

Aye, perhaps that's why France had several post-WW2 colonial wars. That and because its attempt at Le Commonwèalth failed..

Perhaps it's also why unlike Britain we still have an actual (Neo-)Colonial Empire even today with la Françafrique rather than a mere LARP club all about desperately trying to cling to our past glory days of Imperialism. :^)
Also, as Saint-Thor pointed out, we do have an equivalent to the Commonwealth which is called la Francophonie and actually get shit done when it comes to projecting our culture.

my, my. Aren't don't you have a chip on your shoulder. You don't understand the Commonwealth at all, like the name suggests it is to the mutual benefit of all - celebrating friendship, history and culture. I'll borrow this from Thought Co. The purpose of the voluntary Commonwealth is for international cooperation and to advance economics, social development, and human rights in member countries. Decisions of the various Commonwealth councils are non-binding.

The Queen is just a figurehead - The head is -also borrowed from thought Co The Secretary General is elected by the Heads of Government of the membership and can serve two four-year terms


in terms of your association may I respectfully say - you should extend a welcome to french students associations from around the globe, Jersey, Guernsey and large expat groupings and their families around the world. I suppose you could also include people who have studied or worked in your nation/nations. The is also one other obvious grouping you could include people with links to the Foreign Legion.

I don't know if the American States that were part of the Louisiana purchase have any connection, but they'd make a mighty powerful presence.

Well I wish you lot well with that, anything positive is in short supply these days.

afterthought - you could include sports clubs of French or of your (former) territories origin sports/games such as petanque.

You could also approach your populations to get their twin towns involved - possibly through some virtual/ cultural celebration - and possibly sporting contests during the year eg schools going on visits or hosting an inter twin town tournament.

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In terms of Spain, the prime minister is handling this badly and there should be moves to censure or get rid of him. Look at Italy and Belgium they've done things a lot better - as has Canada.

[SD_Film Artists]

In terms of Spain, the prime minister is handling this badly and there should be moves to censure or get rid of him. Look at Italy and Belgium they've done things a lot better - as has Canada.

Indeed, Rajoy doesn't seem to understand that independence movements are like those Chinese finger traps; the more you force it the worse they become.

Aye, perhaps that's why France had several post-WW2 colonial wars. That and because its attempt at Le Commonwèalth failed..

Perhaps it's also why unlike Britain we still have an actual (Neo-)Colonial Empire even today with la Françafrique rather than a mere LARP club all about desperately trying to cling to our past glory days of Imperialism. :^)
Also, as Saint-Thor pointed out, we do have an equivalent to the Commonwealth which is called la Francophonie and actually get shit done when it comes to projecting our culture.

First, I'm part-French so with the exception of my lack of knowledge about la Francophonie you're preaching to the choir. But since you insist on comparing Britain; The large amount of la Francophonie members doesn't exactly stack-up when some of them aren't real countries *cough*Quebec*cough*, are also part of the Commonwealth, or are in Eastern Europe. How does France protect its neo-colonial empire? Britain sank a cruiser, France sank the Rainbow Warrior.

[Thermodolia]

Perhaps it's also why unlike Britain we still have an actual (Neo-)Colonial Empire even today with la Françafrique rather than a mere LARP club all about desperately trying to cling to our past glory days of Imperialism. :^)
Also, as Saint-Thor pointed out, we do have an equivalent to the Commonwealth which is called la Francophonie and actually get shit done when it comes to projecting our culture.

First, I'm part-French so with the exception of my lack of knowledge about la Francophonie you're preaching to the choir. But since you insist on comparing Britain; The large amount of la Francophonie members doesn't exactly stack-up when some of them aren't real countries *cough*Quebec*cough*, are also part of the Commonwealth, or are in Eastern Europe. How does France protect its neo-colonial empire? Britain sank a cruiser, France sank the Rainbow Warrior.

You just made me love France even more

[Pasong Tirad]

I didn't know Catalonia was a member of the Commonwealth and La Francophonie.

Wait, it's not?

[SD_Film Artists]

First, I'm part-French so with the exception of my lack of knowledge about la Francophonie you're preaching to the choir. But since you insist on comparing Britain; The large amount of la Francophonie members doesn't exactly stack-up when some of them aren't real countries *cough*Quebec*cough*, are also part of the Commonwealth, or are in Eastern Europe. How does France protect its neo-colonial empire? Britain sank a cruiser, France sank the Rainbow Warrior.

You just made me love France even more

De rien

[SD_Film Artists]

I didn't know Catalonia was a member of the Commonwealth and La Francophonie.

Wait, it's not?

Catalonia could do with some..protection once it's free, someone's got to look out for that small, ex-EU country all out on its own or it could get placed back into Spain, capeesh? For just the small cost of 2bn per year we could..stop bad things from happening. Think of us as the EU for people who can't go to the EU.

[Socialist Czechia]

I didn't know Catalonia was a member of the Commonwealth and La Francophonie.

Wait, it's not?

Catalonia could do with some..protection once it's free, someone's got to look out for that small, ex-EU country all out on its own or it could get placed back into Spain, capeesh? For just the small cost of 2bn per year we could..stop bad things from happening. Think of us as the EU for people who can't go to the EU.

France should finally support Catalonian rebels and protect them from yucky Spaniards French kings fucked with them too many times, only that Corsican guy welcomed them.
Just look on one detail, name 'Puigdemont' sounds certainly more like someone from beyond the Pyrenees.

[Aellex]

First, I'm part-French so with the exception of my lack of knowledge about la Francophonie you're preaching to the choir. But since you insist on comparing Britain; The large amount of la Francophonie members doesn't exactly stack-up when some of them aren't real countries *cough*Quebec*cough*, are also part of the Commonwealth, or are in Eastern Europe. How does France protect its neo-colonial empire? Britain sank a cruiser, France sank the Rainbow Warrior.

for the first part.
As for the second, how do France protect her neo-colonial empire? Well, we do a lot from military intervention be it indirect (like the mercenaries and rebels group, hum, I meant like the "democratic oppositions" we sponsor and support to make sure there are always friends of France in power) or direct (like in Mali a couple of years ago during which we make sure the aforementioned friends stay in power ) passing by a tight-grip on the local economy (we have control of their money and our companies are in a situation of almost total monopoly) and a cultural assimilation of their elites.
Françafrique was a successful transition of Colonialism to the modern world, Britain could have probably managed to achieve something similar but sadly she was a little too over-eager to liquidate her colonial empire.

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

First, I'm part-French so with the exception of my lack of knowledge about la Francophonie you're preaching to the choir. But since you insist on comparing Britain; The large amount of la Francophonie members doesn't exactly stack-up when some of them aren't real countries *cough*Quebec*cough*, are also part of the Commonwealth, or are in Eastern Europe. How does France protect its neo-colonial empire? Britain sank a cruiser, France sank the Rainbow Warrior.

for the first part.
As for the second, how do France protect her neo-colonial empire? Well, we do a lot from military intervention be it indirect (like the mercenaries and rebels group, hum, I meant like the "democratic oppositions" we sponsor and support to make sure there are always friends of France in power) or direct (like in Mali a couple of years ago during which we make sure the aforementioned friends stay in power ) passing by a tight-grip on the local economy (we have control of their money and our companies are in a situation of almost total monopoly) and a cultural assimilation of their elites.
Françafrique was a successful transition of Colonialism to the modern world, Britain could have probably managed to achieve something similar but sadly she was a little too over-eager to liquidate her colonial empire.

sigh Why do we have this sort of imperialism in the 21st century? And how was liquidating the British Empire a bad thing?

[Naifon]

sigh Why do we have this sort of imperialism in the 21st century? And how was liquidating the British Empire a bad thing?

What about...
Anguilla,
Bermuda,
British Antarctic Territory,
British Indian Ocean Territory,
British Virgin Islands,
Cayman Islands,
Falkland Islands,
Gibraltar,
Montserrat,
Pitcairn Islands,
Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha,
South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands,
Turks and Caicos Islands, and
Sovereign Base Areas of Akrotiri and Dhekelia?

Those are economically fruitful places that are worth having...?

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

sigh Why do we have this sort of imperialism in the 21st century? And how was liquidating the British Empire a bad thing?

What about...
Anguilla,
Bermuda,
British Antarctic Territory,
British Indian Ocean Territory,
British Virgin Islands,
Cayman Islands,
Falkland Islands,
Gibraltar,
Montserrat,
Pitcairn Islands,
Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha,
South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands,
Turks and Caicos Islands, and
Sovereign Base Areas of Akrotiri and Dhekelia?

Those are economically fruitful places that are worth having...?

Yeah, I'm just talking about Aellex's level of imperialism (which involves use of military action to maintain the empire). And the British Empire isn't really an empire now as it cannot expand without fundamentally changing its internal structure.

[Trumptonium]

And how was liquidating the British Empire a bad thing?

how was it a good thing?

sigh Why do we have this sort of imperialism in the 21st century? And how was liquidating the British Empire a bad thing?

What about...
Anguilla,

self-funding

Bermuda,

profitable

British Antarctic Territory,

indispensable and invaluable research-wise

British Indian Ocean Territory,

as above plus military value

British Virgin Islands,

self-funding

Cayman Islands,

self-funding

Falkland Islands,

masses of offshore oil, self-funding once we stop seeing the military base as an expenditure on the island.

Gibraltar,

very profitable

Montserrat,

minor expense

Pitcairn Islands,

minor expense

Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha,

minor expense; military value

South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands,

virtually no expenses

Turks and Caicos Islands, and

self-funding

Sovereign Base Areas of Akrotiri and Dhekelia?

militarily indispensible - and these are not colonies anyway. not anymore than the 10 US Air Force bases in Southern England being colonies of the US.

Those are economically fruitful places that are worth having...?

yes

[Heyliges Teutsches Reich]

Yes. For a Europe of regions! The EU is the opposite and a withdrawal from Spain is also a withdrawal from the EU. Spain is an artificial country which is the de-facto successor of Castilia. Today, there are mostly good reasons for a Katexit.