Girls in the Boy Scouts? Not so fast says the Girl Scouts

[Computer Lab]

I don't see a big problem with the BSA becoming co-ed. There is already a pretty large amount of oversight. It isn't like suddenly every scout would start having sex at camp if it was co-ed.

I always thought it was a shame that girls didn't get to do some of the more cool stuff in Scouting. Besides, high adventure camps run fine co-ed.

[Jetan]

Honestly, BSA has a lot bigger issues than not being co-ed. They could certainly become co-ed, but I don't see it as pressing issue since Girl Scouts exists aswell (don't see why the Girl Scouts would oppose it either though). Most Troops here are co-ed, but not all. Some of especially the older troops are still sex segregated. If anything there should more independent co-ed troops.


Eh, I don't know what kind of camps you've been to but there certainly was no distribution of condoms when I was in the scouts.

Doesn't require them to be given out at the campsite. Only elsewhere and individually packaged to smuggle into the campsite.

Sigh. They weren't given out elsewhere, individually packaged and smugled into the campsite either.

[Belle Ilse en Terre]

Why can't we just have 'people scouts'? Why does gender factor into it?

Based on this thread, American society is deeply opposed to heterosexual sex.

*outside of marriage/before high school/other barriers

[Bombadil]

I've just done a quick scout (ha ha) of the names of the 169 national Scouting organisations, and as far as my language skills allow me to tell, the only national associations that still use the word 'boy' or a gender-exclusive adjective in their title(s) are:

Austria
Bahrain
Barbados
Jordan
Kuwait
Liberia
Luxembourg
Lichtenstein
Pakistan
Philippines
Saudi Arabia (unsurprisingly)
Suriname
Swaziland
United States

America, in fine company as ever..

[Gim]

I don't see a big problem with the BSA becoming co-ed. There is already a pretty large amount of oversight. It isn't like suddenly every scout would start having sex at camp if it was co-ed.

I always thought it was a shame that girls didn't get to do some of the more cool stuff in Scouting. Besides, high adventure camps run fine co-ed.

Boys and girls will have some fun.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Doesn't require them to be given out at the campsite. Only elsewhere and individually packaged to smuggle into the campsite.

Sigh. They weren't given out elsewhere, individually packaged and smugled into the campsite either.

They're given out in schools, aren't they?

The only thing we don't know is whether or not they're smuggled into the campsite, and we can't be sure they aren't any more than that they are.

[Reformed Corea]

Sigh. They weren't given out elsewhere, individually packaged and smugled into the campsite either.

They're given out in schools, aren't they?

The only thing we don't know is whether or not they're smuggled into the campsite, and we can't be sure they aren't any more than that they are.

Which item are you addressing?

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

They're given out in schools, aren't they?

The only thing we don't know is whether or not they're smuggled into the campsite, and we can't be sure they aren't any more than that they are.

Which item are you addressing?

Condoms, and the tradeoff thereof.

I mentioned that Europe just gives out condoms and so has a lower teen pregnancy rate. I was suggesting that taking measures to prevent teen sex more drastic than Europe's or the USA's would reduce it even more than that.

[Reformed Corea]

Which item are you addressing?

Condoms, and the tradeoff thereof.

I mentioned that Europe just gives out condoms and so has a lower teen pregnancy rate. I was suggesting that taking measures to prevent teen sex more drastic than Europe's or the USA's would reduce it even more than that.

Are Morning-After pills provided by the school as well?

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Condoms, and the tradeoff thereof.

I mentioned that Europe just gives out condoms and so has a lower teen pregnancy rate. I was suggesting that taking measures to prevent teen sex more drastic than Europe's or the USA's would reduce it even more than that.

Are Morning-After pills provided by the school as well?

I have no idea. It's just something I vaguely heard about as the difference between Europe and the USA. (I'm in Canada, which teaches kids how to use condoms, but doesn't actively hand them out until the first day of college. Even then, it's just one per student.)

Even if you hand out morning-after pills, you can't make kids use 'em.

[Reformed Corea]

-Snip-

Yeah, I remember my older cousin receiving condoms when he went to an American university. Not sure about Canadian, though.

[Gauthier]

Condoms, and the tradeoff thereof.

I mentioned that Europe just gives out condoms and so has a lower teen pregnancy rate. I was suggesting that taking measures to prevent teen sex more drastic than Europe's or the USA's would reduce it even more than that.

Are Morning-After pills provided by the school as well?

It doesn't help that sex ed in many states are set up by evangelical fetus fetishists.

[Computer Lab]

I was given a single condom in high school in a US high school, and the college I go to gives them out for free at the health center. I don't know about morning after pills.

[Saiwania]

It doesn't help that sex ed in many states are set up by evangelical fetus fetishists.

The very southern states like Mississippi seem to have the more interesting sex ed classes for women. Like that classic one where the class passes around a piece of unwrapped candy and then asking the last person who has it- "You wouldn't want to eat that used and dirty piece of chocolate, do you? Remember girls- its the same with your vagina!"

[Soldati Senza Confini]

It doesn't help that sex ed in many states are set up by evangelical fetus fetishists.

The very southern states like Mississippi seem to have the more interesting sex ed classes for women. Like that classic one where the class passes around a piece of unwrapped candy and then asking the last person who has it- "You wouldn't want to eat that used and dirty piece of chocolate, do you? Remember girls- its the same with your vagina!"

I mean... I'd go "it's unwrapped, the hell is wrong with it?!"

Also, you know "the chemical composition of candy is far different than the chemical composition of pussy, ma'am. Now excuse me while I go take a piss from the dirt and bacteria deposits you apparently think I have up my dick".

[Reformed Corea]

I was given a single condom in high school in a US high school, and the college I go to gives them out for free at the health center. I don't know about morning after pills.

It's OTC, so girls should get some from the school pharmacy.

[Mushet]

oh they could do mixed camps with badges for skinny dipping

On a more serious note as long as they call themselves the Boy Scouts it is weird to extend programming to girls, the more integrated it gets the more silly it is to have these seperate gendered organizations. I'd rather just see Scouts, but BSA and GSA have both been around for a long time and I don't know how likely it would be.

[Jetan]

Sigh. They weren't given out elsewhere, individually packaged and smugled into the campsite either.

They're given out in schools, aren't they?

The only thing we don't know is whether or not they're smuggled into the campsite, and we can't be sure they aren't any more than that they are.

You can get them from the school nurse usually, but you have to ask for them yourself.

[Salandriagado]

Because they want the programs Boy Scouts offer? Because girls with brothers in the Boy scouts want to participate?

So why not give them the same programs? Take them camping. Teach them how to skin an animal. Sing campfire songs. Whatever it is the Boy Scouts do.

Then why have two separate organisations, rather than catching up to the rest of the world?

So why not give them the same programs? Take them camping. Teach them how to skin an animal. Sing campfire songs. Whatever it is the Boy Scouts do.

Relationships are a problem. What if the boys don't work and do activities as much, because they've fallen in love with the girls there?

This is absolutely and completely not a problem, and I say this as a Scout leader with a majority-female troop. It's not a problem for exactly the same reason that this argument doesn't work for segregating schools, or not allowing homosexuals to join.

There seems to be a bit of disconnect. All boys anything = evil. All girls anything = good for girls. It's not just them, I mean.

More of connection, rather. Boys and girls can fall in love and play hooky.

Doesn't actually happen. If it does, well, that's why you have patrol leaders.

Because they want the programs Boy Scouts offer? Because girls with brothers in the Boy scouts want to participate?


They're allowed in both, but it took the threat of a lengthy legal battle for the BSA to allow it. The organization is still very conservative. I blame the Mormons.

Hey, look, I like blaming entire religions as well, but I really doubt the Mormons are the only ones against trans people in the scouts.

They are very much the dominant voting block against it.

And certainly in the Anglosphere, the US Scouting movement is highly unusual among the larger countries; most have have allowed both boys and girls for years, in some cases decades.

They're weird in plenty of other ways as well. The BSA heavily relies on local groups such as churches for facilities, funding, and organisation, while in the UK most scout groups will have their own hut are run entirely by Scout Association members. The BSA is also way more religious as a result.

Even so: my scout group is church-sponsored, and meets in a church. This doesn't stop us having a transgender scout, and a straight 50% of our leadership being atheist. It's more that there are more churches in the US that like to push discriminatory bullshit on people than in the UK.

So the GSA is pretty much salty about the BSA seeking diversity?!

Huh.

For reference, Girlguiding UK reacted similarly to TSA doing the same thing. They got over it quickly enough, though.

There should be no gay or trans people in the BSA, because that runs counter to the values of their founder. And any attempt to bring girls in would be unjustly stepping on the GSA's territory and interfering with their core mission.

I have no fucking clue which founder you're talking about, but I'm pretty sure it isn't the actual founder, who was noted for such sentiments as liking the uniform because it "covers up all differences".

Why not merge the two organisations? One united Scouts origination?

Would it not be more efficient pooling resources together?

Why not form a separate coed scouts organisation? Why are we pirating existing organisations and compromising their original nature?

Note that the original scouting organisation (whichever side of the BPSA/BBS-BGS/TSA split you happen to decide is original) is already coeducational, and has been for some time (up to 109 years, depending on how you're counting and your decision with regard to the above split).


I feel that I should point out, however, that there are already coeducational Scouting organisations in the US: Navigators USA, the Federation of North-American Explorers, and the Baden-Powell Service Association being perhaps the most notable.

Girls don't belong in the boy scouts. They're called the boy scouts for a reason.

Except that the originating organisation dropped the "boy" from the name some 50 years ago, and the international parent organisation dropped it 56 years ago.

So where was all the free sex when I was a kid?

From what I've heard, World Jamboree. Supposedly they hand out official World Scout Organization condoms there.

Nah, WSJ is way too crowded to get any privacy for that kind of thing.

As a female Venture Scout, I think Girl Scouts is overlooking something important. When you have boys and girls together at a Boy Scout camp, you have to have at least two adult leaders of each gender for every howevermany scouts of that gender. Girls and boys may not share tents, under 18 and over 18 may not share tents, and I don't think married adult leaders are allowed to share tents. In Girl Scouts, there are no boys, so they have almost no experience with dividing the sexes, not that most girl scouts camp anyway. As an example, our local baseball team (Go Flying Squirrels!) offers both Boy Scout and Girl Scout Night at the Diamond, where you camp on the outfield after the game is over. Boy scout camp was a fun family activity, much like Cub Scout campouts. I should probably clarify that Cub scouts is generally more of a family activity that revolves around the scouts but includes both parents and often siblings. I have fond memories of designing pinewood derby cars and going to fishing fun day at one of our council's camps. Girl Scout night was different. First of all, there were a lot more taj matents, but that wasn't even the problem. It was basically one big pajama sleepover party, and it was like the whole thing had been designed by a preteen. My family had planned to camp together, like we had at Boy Scout night, but my dad and brother had to leave because, while technically boys were allowed, they had to camp on the other side of the diamond and we only brought one tent. It wasn't even fun. Never on any other camping trip have I seen so many pajamas and stuffed animals and 12-person tents. That was the only time I ever went camping as a girl scout, and it wasn't even with my troop. As for my troop, we had one for three, maybe four years then had to cave because you can't have brownies and juniors in the same troop. It was ridiculous. We did do some fun things, and thankfully I was too old to be required to earn the "Social Butterfly" award, because, honest to god, while Cub Scouts are getting belt loops and earning their Bobcat Badges, Daisies are learning how to be Social Butterflies. At some point after my troop fell apart, I was at my brother's AOL Ceremony or maybe his crossover into his Boy Scout troop, I don't remember, one of the adult leaders told me about Venture crews, and I waited eagerly for two years to be able to do the same things my brother was doing: camping, hiking, and doing cool things with his troop, like going to the spy museum and whitewater rafting. Once I was old enough, I joined a local crew, earned my bronze award before they discontinued that program, then started working towards the new awards. I've backpacked sections of the AT, kayaked in the Chesapeake Bay, cooked in a dutch oven, and helped volunteer at scout camps, where I met some of my closest friends. None of that would have been possible in Girl Scouts. Well, maybe dutch oven cooking, but still. Girl Scouts isn't threatened by Boy Scouts, they're threatened by their own shortcomings.

Let us compare this lot to the UK: there's no requirement to have adults of any particular gender on a camp (indeed, providing there's nobody under the age of 10 there, there's no requirement to have any adults at all), boys and girls can share tents however much the like, adults can share tents with whoever they like. Some groups do occasionally have family camps, but I outright refuse to have parents on my beaver/cub/scout camps (and if I end up with kids of my own, they'll be going to somebody else's group).

As someone from a camp which used to serve what is probably one of the more diverse councils in the nation, I don't see any reason why the BSA can't do both.

Not suggesting they can't but the point remains. Many aren't diverse and should work to eliminate that. After that sure don't see why girls can't join. Some may prefer that over GSA. Don't think they will see the numbers though.

Maybe this council thinks they can get their hands on the GS cookies.

By way of comparison, the UK scout association is 25% female, while having Girlguiding UK (or whatever they've changed their name to this week) competing very successfully (more so than the GSA: they're either slightly larger or slightly smaller than the Scout Association), and 71% of newly joining Scouts are female.

The girl scouts were organized as and have persisted as an answer to the boy scouts. If the boy scouts let in girls then the girl scouts cease to exist.

Girlguiding UK would like a word.

Never been a fan of gender-segregated groups with a few exceptions. It just seems weird to me and just not how the world works. The country isn't gender segregated, neither is school or the workplace so it is important that kids learn how to work with the opposite sex.

School and the workplace are better supervised to keep teen sex to a minimum.

There's only so much you can watch at a camp.

Do you imagine that tents are soundproof? I tend to embarrass my Scouts by mentioning the things that they were gossiping about in their tents at breakfast. If they can't manage a quiet conversation without everybody being able to hear it, how do you expect them to keep anything else quiet?

Also, the only section of the BSA where this is likely to be an issue (Venture Scouting: aged 14-18), is already coed, and I have found a grand total of zero stories about people becoming pregnant on their camps.

So, I have to ask, why the hell do you think 12 year olds are more likely to have sex on camp than 16 year olds?

[Costa Fierro]

I've just done a quick scout (ha ha) of the names of the 169 national Scouting organisations, and as far as my language skills allow me to tell, the only national associations that still use the word 'boy' or a gender-exclusive adjective in their title(s) are:

Austria
Bahrain
Barbados
Jordan
Kuwait
Liberia
Luxembourg
Lichtenstein
Pakistan
Philippines
Saudi Arabia (unsurprisingly)
Suriname
Swaziland
United States

America, in fine company as ever..

What the fuck has Lichtenstein ever done to you?

[Sovaal]

America, in fine company as ever..

What the fuck has Lichtenstein ever done to you?

They, Austria, and Luxembourg are planning to do some James Bond stuff to take lover the world, duh.

[Salandriagado]

America, in fine company as ever..

What the fuck has Lichtenstein ever done to you?

I should point out that while Liechtenstein does have a the male-only form of "Scout" in its title, it also has the female-only form, and is, in fact, coeducational.

[Bombadil]

America, in fine company as ever..

What the fuck has Lichtenstein ever done to you?

Lichtenstein tried to kill mah daddy..

[Cetacea]

What the fuck has Lichtenstein ever done to you?

I should point out that while Liechtenstein does have a the male-only form of "Scout" in its title, it also has the female-only form, and is, in fact, coeducational.

Well to be fair Liachtaschta is small enough that the whole population comes to have an Annual Beer in the Castle garden, which pretty much means that all those Boys and Girls in the co-ed Scouts are like cousins anyway.

Its also notable to point our that the Liechtensteinen Women only got to Vote in 1986

[Kathmandue]

I for one would support the integration of Girls into Boy Scouts. It could be beneficial, and something I wish we would have done before I got my Eagle