What about ANTIFA?

[Cedoria]

Marxs ideas are praiseworthy, who dosn't want to live in a utopia?

The day we achieve Utopia will be the day we will have evolved to live without the necessity of chores, work, and what not. That's not to say Marx wasn't a good thinker, he was fucking brilliant. But how do we achieve his dream?

Indeed, the way automation is heading (which is what Marx essentially proposed as the beginning point of when to implement his solutions), this will indeed be possible.

That was when Marx himself predicted (and recommended) the proposed revolution would occur, certainly not in backward, semi-feudal peasant societies like Tsarist Russia (they would be the last, not first dominoes to fall).

We haven't yet reached the point where automation expands to the point he predicted it would, but we are rapidly getting there.

[Cedoria]

Since Antifa are not Liberals, these two claims are completely unrelated. Nor are they in any way useful.

Terrorist is a pretty loose, and in this a probably not extremely useful definition. Antifa is a lot of things, depending on who the person calling themselves ANTIFA is.

Liberal on some social issues, perhaps. But the distinction between them and conservatives on issues of economic and foreign policy are frankly so miniscule as to be irrelevant in modern America. There are also plenty of very well-used media in the US that are plainly not Liberal (Fox).

I have said this many times, and I will say it again:

https://www.njhomelandsecurity.gov/anal ... sts-antifa

Antifa are literally terrorists

According to New Jersy Homeland Security.

According to the government of Iran, the US Army is a terrorist organisation.

That's my point, terrorist is a definition so loose and open to exploitation that it's essentially useless as anything but a propaganda term, it has no useful descriptive power. Who you call a terrorist is very likely not the same as who I call one.

[The Portland Territory]

Marxs ideas are praiseworthy, who dosn't want to live in a utopia?

The day we achieve Utopia will be the day we will have evolved to live without the necessity of chores, work, and what not. That's not to say Marx wasn't a good thinker, he was fucking brilliant. But how do we achieve his dream?

Oh ho ho, how do we achieve this dream?

[Greater Cesnica]

The day we achieve Utopia will be the day we will have evolved to live without the necessity of chores, work, and what not. That's not to say Marx wasn't a good thinker, he was fucking brilliant. But how do we achieve his dream?

Oh ho ho, how do we achieve this dream?

Fuck me.

[Nuklain]

Liberal bias may be the cause, yes, but I shutter to call MSM "liberal". They do not stand for the actual liberal policies that are free-speech, and many other rights that are listed in the bill of right's framed by the founding fathers of the U.S.

[Kash Island]

Liberal bias may be the cause, yes, but I shutter to call MSM "liberal". They do not stand for the actual liberal policies that are free-speech, and many other rights that are listed in the bill of right's framed by the founding fathers of the U.S.

agreed, Liberal today is basically "socialist lite" in my eyes

true liberalism is Classic Liberalism

[Cedoria]

Liberal bias may be the cause, yes, but I shutter to call MSM "liberal". They do not stand for the actual liberal policies that are free-speech, and many other rights that are listed in the bill of right's framed by the founding fathers of the U.S.

The press has never been 'liberal' in that respect. It's pretty much corporate controlled, and thus reflects those interests and values.

Might as well be state-controlled for all the free disputation that's actually allowed. Limit the spectrum, allow debate within that spectrum while marginalising and ostracising alternative arguments, then call yourself 'free press'. It's a euphemism Orwell was quite able to recognise.

[War Gears]

Well, Abe Lincoln and Marx knew one another well by reputation, and the latter was a great admirer of the former...

I take it you wouldn't regard Lincoln as anti-American on the basis of some of his administration officials praising Marx as their best friend in London during the Civil War?

Marxs ideas are praiseworthy, who dosn't want to live in a utopia?

I don't. For the same reason I don't want to live in the Christian heaven. Utopias are stagnate.

[Liriena]

tfw the thread title itself is a whataboutism #feelsbadman


Seriously, though? Antifa doesn't worry me. Not really. Some people who pick up the "antifa" label might be unhelpful, indiscriminate twats, but as a whole I don't have much of a problem with a bunch of people whose violence is laser-guided towards racist scum who fantasize about committing genocides. I disapprove of their violence, but I don't see it as the existential threat to Western values, Western culture and liberal democracy.

Of course, if you staunchly believed in liberal democratic values and thought unlawful acts can never be just, you'd have good and valid reasons to oppose antifascist violence.

[Kash Island]

tfw the thread title itself is a whataboutism #feelsbadman


Seriously, though? Antifa doesn't worry me. Not really. Some people who pick up the "antifa" label might be unhelpful, indiscriminate twats, but as a whole I don't have much of a problem with a bunch of people whose violence is laser-guided towards racist scum who fantasize about committing genocides.

Of course, if you staunchly believed in liberal democratic values and thought unlawful acts can never be just, you'd have good and valid reasons to oppose antifascist violence.

lol laser guided? more like a blunderbuss in all directions, they put the "evil fascist" trope on lots of people.

[Liriena]

Liberal bias may be the cause, yes, but I shutter to call MSM "liberal". They do not stand for the actual liberal policies that are free-speech, and many other rights that are listed in the bill of right's framed by the founding fathers of the U.S.

agreed, Liberal today is basically "socialist lite" in my eyes

true liberalism is Classic Liberalism

True liberalism is an anachronic (and arguably failed) ideology from an era in which we had some really dumb ideas about personhood, voting rights, economics and social sciences? Interesting.

[Liriena]

tfw the thread title itself is a whataboutism #feelsbadman


Seriously, though? Antifa doesn't worry me. Not really. Some people who pick up the "antifa" label might be unhelpful, indiscriminate twats, but as a whole I don't have much of a problem with a bunch of people whose violence is laser-guided towards racist scum who fantasize about committing genocides.

Of course, if you staunchly believed in liberal democratic values and thought unlawful acts can never be just, you'd have good and valid reasons to oppose antifascist violence.

lol laser guided? more like a blunderbuss in all directions, they put the "evil fascist" trope on lots of people.

*shrug*

[Liriena]

The day we achieve Utopia will be the day we will have evolved to live without the necessity of chores, work, and what not. That's not to say Marx wasn't a good thinker, he was fucking brilliant. But how do we achieve his dream?

Oh ho ho, how do we achieve this dream?

Ah, I see you've become one of us. :3

[War Gears]

The day we achieve Utopia will be the day we will have evolved to live without the necessity of chores, work, and what not. That's not to say Marx wasn't a good thinker, he was fucking brilliant. But how do we achieve his dream?

Oh ho ho, how do we achieve this dream?

> not fully automated artisan trap lesbian space corporatism.

I'm good, thanks.

[Liriena]

Oh ho ho, how do we achieve this dream?

> not fully automated artisan trap lesbian space corporatism.

I'm good, thanks.

Goddamn identity politics.

We need an umbrella term.

[Cedoria]

Marxs ideas are praiseworthy, who dosn't want to live in a utopia?

I don't. For the same reason I don't want to live in the Christian heaven. Utopias are stagnate.

Fortunately Marx did not propose such a thing, and was highly critical of the concept, as you and I are.

[Cedoria]

tfw the thread title itself is a whataboutism #feelsbadman


Seriously, though? Antifa doesn't worry me. Not really. Some people who pick up the "antifa" label might be unhelpful, indiscriminate twats, but as a whole I don't have much of a problem with a bunch of people whose violence is laser-guided towards racist scum who fantasize about committing genocides.

Of course, if you staunchly believed in liberal democratic values and thought unlawful acts can never be just, you'd have good and valid reasons to oppose antifascist violence.

lol laser guided? more like a blunderbuss in all directions, they put the "evil fascist" trope on lots of people.

Including people who helpfully identify themselves as such by marching with swastikas and white supremacist flags yelling "Jews will not replace us".

Some centrists still argued they were applying the distinction too broadly, thus proving why that sort of critique from ANTIFA was necessary in the first place, some people refuse to acknowledge some facts about people even when said people helpfully identify themselves.

We can call them Nazis because they unambiguously identified themselves as such. Useless liberal hand-wringing about how this is 'unhelpful' (whatever that means) aside.

[Kash Island]

lol laser guided? more like a blunderbuss in all directions, they put the "evil fascist" trope on lots of people.

Including people who helpfully identify themselves as such by marching with swastikas and white supremacist flags yelling "Jews will not replace us".

Some centrists still argued they were applying the distinction too broadly, thus proving why that sort of critique from ANTIFA was necessary in the first place, some people refuse to acknowledge some facts about people even when said people helpfully identify themselves.

We can call them Nazis because they unambiguously identified themselves as such. Useless liberal hand-wringing about how this is 'unhelpful' (whatever that means) aside.

you understand that ANTIFA didn't just show up to that rally right?

what about all the peaceful Trump campaign rallys? what about Berkley? what about Boston?

[Liriena]

what about Boston?

Are you suggesting that the tens of thousands of counter-protesters who peacefully shouted at the poor widdle nazis were all antifa or something? Because, otherwise, your allusion makes no sense. As far as I know, there was no violence in Boston.

[Kash Island]

what about Boston?

Are you suggesting that the tens of thousands of counter-protesters who peacefully shouted at the poor widdle nazis were all antifa or something? Because, otherwise, your allusion makes no sense. As far as I know, there was no violence in Boston.

First off, this was not a white nationalist/neo-nazi rally (The rally even denounced such things before it began)

second off after the free speech rally ended groups like antifa/blm stayed around to fuck with the police and over a dozen people were arrested.

[Liriena]

Are you suggesting that the tens of thousands of counter-protesters who peacefully shouted at the poor widdle nazis were all antifa or something? Because, otherwise, your allusion makes no sense. As far as I know, there was no violence in Boston.

First off, this was not a white nationalist/neo-nazi rally (The rally even denounced such things before it began)

And you believed them.

second off after the free speech rally ended groups like antifa/blm stayed around to fuck with the police and over a dozen people were arrested.

Antifa I can believe...provided you provide a source. But not BLM. Please stop trying to make "BLM are literally terrorists" happen.

[Kash Island]

First off, this was not a white nationalist/neo-nazi rally (The rally even denounced such things before it began)

And you believed them.

second off after the free speech rally ended groups like antifa/blm stayed around to fuck with the police and over a dozen people were arrested.

Antifa I can believe...provided you provide a source. But not BLM. Please stop trying to make "BLM are literally terrorists" happen.

bolded " everyone i disagree with is a nazi"

which is exactly why we can't have a discussion because even a free speech rally is seen as nazism.

[Liriena]

And you believed them.


Antifa I can believe...provided you provide a source. But not BLM. Please stop trying to make "BLM are literally terrorists" happen.

bolded " everyone i disagree with is a nazi"

No, but nice try.

which is exactly why we can't have a discussion because even a free speech rally is seen as nazism.

Because "free speech" is just far right virtue signalling to make themselves palatable to useful sillyheads. The rally was attended by people like this twat, Infowars Pizzagate-peddling twat Joe Biggs, [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_Loesch#National_Rifle_Association_videos]and terrorism instigator and twat Dana Loesch[/u]. None of them self-proclaimed neo-nazis, but definitely on the far, far right side of the spectrum.

[Cedoria]

Including people who helpfully identify themselves as such by marching with swastikas and white supremacist flags yelling "Jews will not replace us".

Some centrists still argued they were applying the distinction too broadly, thus proving why that sort of critique from ANTIFA was necessary in the first place, some people refuse to acknowledge some facts about people even when said people helpfully identify themselves.

We can call them Nazis because they unambiguously identified themselves as such. Useless liberal hand-wringing about how this is 'unhelpful' (whatever that means) aside.

you understand that ANTIFA didn't just show up to that rally right?

what about all the peaceful Trump campaign rallys? what about Berkley? what about Boston?

What about the non-peaceful rallies? Charlottesville?

Both these objections are examples of irrelevancies. The point I was making is sometimes the jackboot fits, and should be worn, and if the centrist liberals don't make it, then someone else will.

That's not too say some elements of ANTIFA go too far or are way too broad with ideological labels (many people are, not just ANTIFA) but they do serve a useful purpose the consensus politics doesn't seem to be fulfilling very well at the moment.

[Cedoria]

Are you suggesting that the tens of thousands of counter-protesters who peacefully shouted at the poor widdle nazis were all antifa or something? Because, otherwise, your allusion makes no sense. As far as I know, there was no violence in Boston.

First off, this was not a white nationalist/neo-nazi rally (The rally even denounced such things before it began)

second off after the free speech rally ended groups like antifa/blm stayed around to fuck with the police and over a dozen people were arrested.

You can say you denounce Nazism... But if you're carrying a swastika flag, only a damn fool would believe you.

It'd be like me declaring myself an anti-Stalinist and then plastering posters around from Pravda in the early forties about how great he was.

You can say whatever you like, it doesn't make it true, especially if your words are probably intended to deflect you from the justifiable criticism you would incur.

And plenty at that rally are open Neo-Nazis, David Duke as one example. Just because Richard Spencer is too cowardly to label himself accurately does not mean the label is not applicable.