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What about ANTIFA?

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Proctopeo
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Postby Proctopeo » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:21 am

Alvecia wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:But that's just a theory.
A conspiracy theory.
Thanks for reading!

If you'll excuse me, I need to invest in tin foil and purified water. Have to be safe from Russ- I mean aliens, of course!

I mean, if they're able to actually prove the bots exist, that's more conspiracy than theory, surely?

There's only suspicion by the linked person that the account looked at is working for the Kremlin.
No actual evidence.
Hence, conspiracy theory. Sure, they exist, but that's not all that's being said.
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Torrocca
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Postby Torrocca » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:23 am

Proctopeo wrote:
Alvecia wrote:I mean, if they're able to actually prove the bots exist, that's more conspiracy than theory, surely?

There's only suspicion by the linked person that the account looked at is working for the Kremlin.
No actual evidence.
Hence, conspiracy theory. Sure, they exist, but that's not all that's being said.


So then explain the whole eight-digit thing and how almost every account using them has the same sort of pattern going on. :eyebrow:
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Proctopeo
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Postby Proctopeo » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:29 am

Torrocca wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:There's only suspicion by the linked person that the account looked at is working for the Kremlin.
No actual evidence.
Hence, conspiracy theory. Sure, they exist, but that's not all that's being said.


So then explain the whole eight-digit thing and how almost every account using them has the same sort of pattern going on. :eyebrow:

Bots or people that look like bots.
By who? No way to know, even confidently. Many places use UTC+3, and that might not even be their time zone of origin.
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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:29 am

Torrocca wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:There's only suspicion by the linked person that the account looked at is working for the Kremlin.
No actual evidence.
Hence, conspiracy theory. Sure, they exist, but that's not all that's being said.


So then explain the whole eight-digit thing and how almost every account using them has the same sort of pattern going on. :eyebrow:

Looking at it, it looks like a load of bots. Not sure that there's anything linking them to the Kremlin there though.

Doesn't seem particularly complex either. Some semi-competent coder could probably whip this up in their spare time.
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Taihei Tengoku
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Postby Taihei Tengoku » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:04 am

The 2016 election has all the features of an active measure--it is really a matter of when its details are fleshed out than if. That being said affecting the vote itself was probably not its main objective.
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UniversalCommons
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Postby UniversalCommons » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:37 am

I look at Antifa and see two emerging strategies. One is mass anonymity by Antifa. The other is trying to appear mainstream by the neo-nazis. It makes for some interesting viewing on television.
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Tombradya
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Postby Tombradya » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:09 am

Taihei Tengoku wrote:
Liriena wrote:Ah, an unsourced image showing a correlation, but not a causal link.

10/10

data from the world bank, economic freedom index from fraser


The World Bank... well they would say that wouldn't they? How exactly did they manage to manipulate the calculation so that a bunch of people who were just under this poverty line are now just above it ($1.91 to $2.50 per day)?

Fact remains the western world remains disproportionately wealthy by systematically plundering the wealth of poorer countries (often using IMF and World Bank to impose neoliberalism, free trade and other disastrous ideas). It seems the IMF and World Bank believe that if you just impose enough "reforms" (aka tax breaks for the rich, freedom for corporations and banks to pollute and cheat and whatnot, making it easier to fire low wage workers) that sooner or later every country will become a successful net exporter.

Why o why can't these people spot the flaw in their "thinking"?
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Militant Costco
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Postby Militant Costco » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:43 am

Tombradya wrote:


The World Bank... well they would say that wouldn't they? How exactly did they manage to manipulate the calculation so that a bunch of people who were just under this poverty line are now just above it ($1.91 to $2.50 per day)?

Fact remains the western world remains disproportionately wealthy by systematically plundering the wealth of poorer countries (often using IMF and World Bank to impose neoliberalism, free trade and other disastrous ideas). It seems the IMF and World Bank believe that if you just impose enough "reforms" (aka tax breaks for the rich, freedom for corporations and banks to pollute and cheat and whatnot, making it easier to fire low wage workers) that sooner or later every country will become a successful net exporter.

Why o why can't these people spot the flaw in their "thinking"?

The IMF's and World Bank's 'reforms'/loans are usually targeted at socialist countries or those whose economic system is tightly regulated to the point it negatively affects growth, thus the implementation of more lax regulations, which in the IMF's and World Bank's defense, has usually worked.
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Victores
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Postby Victores » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:22 am

ANTIFA is useless, they should just go join the International Brigades and go to Syria to join the final offensive against ISIS. They might be able to help Rojava finally bring some peace and calm to the Middle East.
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Guelder
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Postby Guelder » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:28 am

Victores wrote:ANTIFA is useless, they should just go join the International Brigades and go to Syria to join the final offensive against ISIS. They might be able to help Rojava finally bring some peace and calm to the Middle East.


The ANTIFA will help the ISIS, because they're very similar
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:33 am

Guelder wrote:
Victores wrote:ANTIFA is useless, they should just go join the International Brigades and go to Syria to join the final offensive against ISIS. They might be able to help Rojava finally bring some peace and calm to the Middle East.


The ANTIFA will help the ISIS, because they're very similar


[citation needed]
Last edited by Vassenor on Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tombradya
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Postby Tombradya » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:40 am

Militant Costco wrote:
Tombradya wrote:
The World Bank... well they would say that wouldn't they? How exactly did they manage to manipulate the calculation so that a bunch of people who were just under this poverty line are now just above it ($1.91 to $2.50 per day)?

Fact remains the western world remains disproportionately wealthy by systematically plundering the wealth of poorer countries (often using IMF and World Bank to impose neoliberalism, free trade and other disastrous ideas). It seems the IMF and World Bank believe that if you just impose enough "reforms" (aka tax breaks for the rich, freedom for corporations and banks to pollute and cheat and whatnot, making it easier to fire low wage workers) that sooner or later every country will become a successful net exporter.

Why o why can't these people spot the flaw in their "thinking"?

The IMF's and World Bank's 'reforms'/loans are usually targeted at socialist countries or those whose economic system is tightly regulated to the point it negatively affects growth, thus the implementation of more lax regulations, which in the IMF's and World Bank's defense, has usually worked.


And yet those countries remain poor but for a filthy rich elite. And we keep hearing about one famine after another, so something must not be quite alright despite all these policies being imposed.

In the IMF's case I can also point to Greece, where unelected income-tax-exempt IMF elitist Lagarde demanded brutal austerity for everyone except the rich and corporations whose tax rates Greece was not allowed to increase.

Besides, economic growth comes mostly from population growth (the #1 factor) which you can clearly see in countries with a decent legal system and infrastructure, nothing to do with "free trade" or other neoliberal stuff that only benefits the rich.
Last edited by Tombradya on Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Victores
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Postby Victores » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:48 am

Guelder wrote:
Victores wrote:ANTIFA is useless, they should just go join the International Brigades and go to Syria to join the final offensive against ISIS. They might be able to help Rojava finally bring some peace and calm to the Middle East.


The ANTIFA will help the ISIS, because they're very similar

You are aware that the original ANTIFA was allied with the International Brigades and the COMINTERN right? And that ANTIFA is left-wing.
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Guelder
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Postby Guelder » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:49 am

Victores wrote:
Guelder wrote:
The ANTIFA will help the ISIS, because they're very similar

You are aware that the original ANTIFA was allied with the International Brigades and the COMINTERN right? And that ANTIFA is left-wing.


Of course i know that, but i'm referring to that ANTIFA is an terrorist group like ISIS
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:50 am

Guelder wrote:
Victores wrote:You are aware that the original ANTIFA was allied with the International Brigades and the COMINTERN right? And that ANTIFA is left-wing.


Of course i know that, but i'm referring to that ANTIFA is an terrorist group like ISIS


So how does that mean the two will help each other?
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Victores
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Postby Victores » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:58 am

Guelder wrote:
Victores wrote:You are aware that the original ANTIFA was allied with the International Brigades and the COMINTERN right? And that ANTIFA is left-wing.


Of course i know that, but i'm referring to that ANTIFA is an terrorist group like ISIS

So by your logic the Ulster Loyalists will work with the IRA?
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Guelder
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Postby Guelder » Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:00 am

Victores wrote:
Guelder wrote:
Of course i know that, but i'm referring to that ANTIFA is an terrorist group like ISIS

So by your logic the Ulster Loyalists will work with the IRA?


As if i see on wikipedia: Yes
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:03 am

Guelder wrote:
Victores wrote:So by your logic the Ulster Loyalists will work with the IRA?


As if i see on wikipedia: Yes


So the group that wants Northern Ireland to secede from the United Kingdom (the IRA) will work with the group that wants to keep Northern Ireland in the United Kingdom (the Ulster Loyalists).

#logic
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Victores
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Postby Victores » Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:04 am

Guelder wrote:
Victores wrote:So by your logic the Ulster Loyalists will work with the IRA?


As if i see on wikipedia: Yes

Look up "The Troubles". "Terrorists" tend to hate eachother.
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Kramania
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Postby Kramania » Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:18 am

It would appear the FBI and DHS have been warning since early 2016 about more Antifa violence. The DHS has even classified their activities as domestic terrorism. Would it not be more expedient to simply classify any Antifa groups as domestic terrorist organizations?
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:20 am

Kramania wrote:It would appear the FBI and DHS have been warning since early 2016 about more Antifa violence. The DHS has even classified their activities as domestic terrorism. Would it not be more expedient to simply classify any Antifa groups as domestic terrorist organizations?


Given Trump's insistence on BUT BOTH SIDES ARE JUST AS BAD are we also going to push for classifying white nationalist groups as domestic terrorist organisations?
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Kramania
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Postby Kramania » Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:21 am

Vassenor wrote:
Kramania wrote:It would appear the FBI and DHS have been warning since early 2016 about more Antifa violence. The DHS has even classified their activities as domestic terrorism. Would it not be more expedient to simply classify any Antifa groups as domestic terrorist organizations?


Given Trump's insistence on BUT BOTH SIDES ARE JUST AS BAD are we also going to push for classifying white nationalist groups as domestic terrorist organisations?

If they commit acts of domestic terrorism like Antifa then yes.
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Taihei Tengoku
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Postby Taihei Tengoku » Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:25 am

Tombradya wrote:


The World Bank... well they would say that wouldn't they? How exactly did they manage to manipulate the calculation so that a bunch of people who were just under this poverty line are now just above it ($1.91 to $2.50 per day)?

PPP is a standard used by economists of all stripes to get a "real exchange rate." You'll realize that they revised the poverty line upward almost 30% in 2011, because $1.25 in 2005 is only $1.48 in 2011. Despite this the fraction of people in extreme poverty continues to decline as neoliberalism advances.

Tombradya wrote:
Militant Costco wrote:The IMF's and World Bank's 'reforms'/loans are usually targeted at socialist countries or those whose economic system is tightly regulated to the point it negatively affects growth, thus the implementation of more lax regulations, which in the IMF's and World Bank's defense, has usually worked.


And yet those countries remain poor but for a filthy rich elite. And we keep hearing about one famine after another, so something must not be quite alright despite all these policies being imposed.

In the IMF's case I can also point to Greece, where unelected income-tax-exempt IMF elitist Lagarde demanded brutal austerity for everyone except the rich and corporations whose tax rates Greece was not allowed to increase.

Besides, economic growth comes mostly from population growth (the #1 factor) which you can clearly see in countries with a decent legal system and infrastructure, nothing to do with "free trade" or other neoliberal stuff that only benefits the rich.

Imagine being this wrong
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UniversalCommons
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Postby UniversalCommons » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:45 am

If you are following what is happening with ANTIFA, you are seeing history repeat itself. Some of the dead fascist organizations are being reborn. There is an active rebirth going on. The KKK is growing. Organizations that are long dead are starting to reappear.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/thi ... mg00000063

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Victores
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Postby Victores » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:56 am

UniversalCommons wrote:If you are following what is happening with ANTIFA, you are seeing history repeat itself. Some of the dead fascist organizations are being reborn. There is an active rebirth going on. The KKK is growing. Organizations that are long dead are starting to reappear.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/thi ... mg00000063

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