What about ANTIFA?

[Ifreann]

ANTIFA should be branded as what they are, a terrorist organization.

How can it be a "terrorist organization" if there is no organization?

Everything I don't like is terrorism.

[Liriena]

That said... "collectivist" thugs? Really? What are you, an ancap?

Given my general opposition to collectivist uptopian ideals such as Socialism and Facism, you should probably consider me a left-leaning classical libertarian, although I try (but sadly tend to fail) and act pragmatically rather than dogmatically.

Fair enough.

[UniversalCommons]

Antifa mainly exists as leftist groups of anti-racists. Leftist could mean syndicalist, anarchist, communist, liberal, socialist, etc. A wide variety of things including extreme free thinkers and atheists. There is no single unifying philosphy except for violent tendencies and anti-racism.

[Autonomous Titoists]

How can it be a "terrorist organization" if there is no organization?

Everything I don't like is terrorism.

WHen white supremacists complain about BLM blockin bridges and then go out to block the SF Bridge in protest of antifa. Aer they the real terrorists now, or would fighting them make us terroritsts. Or since we already fought and are now terrorists does that now make them the new terorists and therefore antifa is ok?

[Aidannadia]

So, it appears Nancy Pelosi has condemned antifa after the Berkeley conflicts recently?

[Autonomous Titoists]

So, it appears Nancy Pelosi has condemned antifa after the Berkeley conflicts recently?

Yeah. And that means nothing to anyone involved in the movement.

[Ifreann]

Everything I don't like is terrorism.

WHen white supremacists complain about BLM blockin bridges and then go out to block the SF Bridge in protest of antifa. Aer they the real terrorists now, or would fighting them make us terroritsts. Or since we already fought and are now terrorists does that now make them the new terorists and therefore antifa is ok?

It's terrorists all the way down.

[Srona Flikinadgedder]

Antifa is a gift to the right. What do you hope to achieve by violently rioting? I feel as if we could be peacefully protesting,rather than attacking people for their beliefs.

[Ifreann]

Antifa is a gift to the right. What do you hope to achieve by violently rioting?

The defeat of the Seig Heil-ing menace.

[Hirota]

Or since we already fought and are now terrorists does that now make them the new terorists and therefore antifa is ok?

You don't seem to understand that just because the people you claim to fight against (both figuratively and literally) tend to be utter tosspots, that in no way means you are not immune to being tosspots yourselves.

Anyway, I guess we are now back at that point in the thread where we talk about the word terrorism and how vague it is and how nobody can agree on a meaning. I did this back in July and don't see much point in it again - although I've shifted my opinion on them a little and think of antifa and their twins as a bunch of tosspots rather than terrorists.

[Autonomous Titoists]

Antifa is a gift to the right. What do you hope to achieve by violently rioting? I feel as if we could be peacefully protesting,rather than attacking people for their beliefs.

We've already played this game in this thread. Every "peaceful" movement was backed by violence. The Civil Rights movement would have gone nowhere without the Black Panthers, the British would have told Gandhi to eat dick if not for Bhagat Singh, etc.

[The East Marches II]

ANTIFA should be branded as what they are, a terrorist organization.

How can it be a "terrorist organization" if there is no organization?

>implying we haven't dealt with this sort of disingenuous argument or organizational style before

Time to get out the headbags and Humvees.

[Autonomous Titoists]

Or since we already fought and are now terrorists does that now make them the new terorists and therefore antifa is ok?

You don't seem to understand that just because the people you claim to fight against (both figuratively and literally) tend to be utter tosspots, that in no way means you are not immune to being tosspots yourselves.

Anyway, I guess we are now back at that point in the thread where we talk about the word terrorism and how vague it is and how nobody can agree on a meaning. I did this back in July and don't see much point in it again - although I've shifted my opinion on them a little and think of antifa and their twins as a bunch of tosspots rather than terrorists.

Dude, its a group associated primarily with anarchists and communists working in America. They are by default seen as tosspots, bcause muh free markets. Terrorism being hard to define is the point, it makes it easier for the state to label people as terrorists if the definition of the word is shoddy at best.

[Autonomous Titoists]

How can it be a "terrorist organization" if there is no organization?

>implying we haven't dealt with this sort of disingenuous argument or organizational style before

Time to get out the headbags and Humvees.

The argument isn't disingenuous. And yes the US dealt with this style of organization before too, it was called Vietnam. So did the USSR in Afghanistan, and also against Mahkno in Ukraine. It typically ends in embarrassment for the state.

[Ifreann]

Antifa is a gift to the right. What do you hope to achieve by violently rioting? I feel as if we could be peacefully protesting,rather than attacking people for their beliefs.

We've already played this game in this thread. Every "peaceful" movement was backed by violence. The Civil Rights movement would have gone nowhere without the Black Panthers, the British would have told Gandhi to eat dick if not for Bhagat Singh, etc.

Someone in a black hoody breaks a window.
"WE MUST STOP THESE INSANE TERRORISTS"
The IRA bomb the UK.
"Here's a few grand for The Cause. Chalky our law"

America is weird sometimes.

[Dylar]

We've already played this game in this thread. Every "peaceful" movement was backed by violence. The Civil Rights movement would have gone nowhere without the Black Panthers, the British would have told Gandhi to eat dick if not for Bhagat Singh, etc.

Someone in a black hoody breaks a window.
"WE MUST STOP THESE INSANE TERRORISTS"
The IRA bomb the UK.
"Here's a few grand for The Cause. Chalky our law"

America is weird sometimes.

I mean, what can you expect? We still use the Imperial system of measurements, even when the metric system is much easier to use...

[Aellex]

I see, but you couldn't really call the neo-socialists left by that point could you? They were on the fast track to fascism.

Well, héééé, they were considered to still be socialists albeit traitorous ones by most people at the time and they definitely were still leftists albeit authoritarian ones. I was only half-kidding when I called them national-bolsheviks.

[Genivaria]

I see, but you couldn't really call the neo-socialists left by that point could you? They were on the fast track to fascism.

Well, héééé, they were considered to still be socialists albeit traitorous ones by most people at the time and they definitely were still leftists albeit authoritarian ones. I was only half-kidding when I called them national-bolsheviks.

At that point they are far enough gone that I really don't care what side they're technically on.

[Kubra]

I fail to see the problem
we're just emulating good european values aren't we

Not sure about good, but certainly emulating some central european values from the early to mid 1900's

>central as opposed to the rest
Well I don't know about that, murder for wearing the wrong colour trousers and being in possession of the wrong side of particular rivers seemed to be in vogue in the rest of the place.

[Bakery Hill]

I see, but you couldn't really call the neo-socialists left by that point could you? They were on the fast track to fascism.

Well, héééé, they were considered to still be socialists albeit traitorous ones by most people at the time and they definitely were still leftists albeit authoritarian ones. I was only half-kidding when I called them national-bolsheviks.

Yeah nazbols is a pretty apt label tbh.

[Orsianders]

I agree with a previous poster. People say "Antififa is a terrorist organization", but what about the KKK? And the Neo-Nazis? I mean, everyone's talking about Antififa this, Antififa that, but they don't remember that mostly the only violence they commit is basically against groups such as these, which started the violence first. Fighting fire with fire, although not a good thing, it is sort of justified.

I also recall that a former KKK member was the one who rammed his car into a crowd, not an antififa member.

If the alt-right domestic terrorists don't march for hate and advocate violence on a mass scale, Antififa wouldn't be a thing?

[UniversalCommons]

Not all of Antifa is about left and right. The far right are targeting specific groups right now, Jews, blacks, latinos and others. Not surprised about the Jewish and Latino focus. I thought this was kind of interesting. http://forward.com/life/family/380923/t ... i-militia/ It is not like Latinos, Jews, and African Americans are going to get that much help when they are targeted. There are two groups in Antifa, the political groups and the anti-racist groups which can be very different.

Also, during the Spanish Civil War, the Popular Front which was an anti-fascist alliance consisted of four groups, liberals, socialists, the Christian left, and communists. There was infighting between the anarchists and the popular front.

[Bakery Hill]

I'll be straight with you liberals but. Antifa isn't just about protecting minorities that in danger. The best way they see this happening is through a communist society. So like, take that how you like it.

[Aidannadia]

So, it appears Nancy Pelosi has condemned antifa after the Berkeley conflicts recently?

Yeah. And that means nothing to anyone involved in the movement.

Well no shit, comrade.

I'm just surprised she commented at all. She could get away with ignoring the question, though I suppose she has little to lose by answering truthfully.

[Patridam]

No one's part of antifa. Its a stand against fascism not an organization like BLM or the KKK. Everyone who fights fascism, hell everyone opposed to fascism, is antifa. Food Not Bombs is just anarchists, mostly mutualists I believe, but I could be wrong.

This is one of those stupid tricks like where they say "if you believe men and women should be equal, you're a feminist" but neglect to tell you about the 8 tons of specific and ever-changing leftist politics that are so associated with feminism that you must adopt them.

I ain't no nazi, and I'm opposed to any government with enough power to be fascist. But I am sure as hell not some antifa terrorist. If anything, I think being anti-communist is more important in this day and age than being anti-fascist.