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Autonomous Titoists
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Postby Autonomous Titoists » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:27 am

Mehreen wrote:ANTIFA should be branded as what they are, a terrorist organization. Along with the KKK and any movement that claims to uphold certain liberties and values, but whose actions lead to violence and go against what the movement claims to advocate for. ANTIFA is a ticking time-bomb. The clash of the radicals is coming. Alt-right vs Alt-left. America is more divided than it's ever been and this has trickled down since before the days of Clinton, it intensified under Bush, more so under Obama and now it's reaching crisis point.

To blame division on Trump alone would be foolish. Even if Clinton had won, the division would have been at the same level that it's at now if not at a worse level. Conservatives absolutely despise Hillary Clinton with every fiber of their being. Liberals feel the same way about Trump. Moderates/centrists and non-conformists are probably more for Hillary, but then again, the polls never paint out the true picture. Two extremely polarizing parties lead to a polarized country. ANTIFA is going nowhere, but neither is the KKK. Reality bites and the reality is that no candidate from any party (Libertarians and others included) could possibly remedy this situation because voters don't run America, nor do they have any say in the affairs of the country.

That's why every administration promises many things but never fulfils even a quarter of what they promised their voters. There's simply too much bureaucracy, too much corporate meddling and far too much media peddling to get anything meaningful done. America needs to go back to the drawing board or ANTIFA and the KKK will eventually drag the entire population into their chaos. After all, chaos is a ladder ;)

I got bad news for you, Antifa is not going nowhere. Its active participation in communities fighting off white supremacists raises there support. Sending groups like food not bombs to places like Harvey Texas (and Katrina before that) raises its public image.
Also alt-left isn't a thing :p

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The Empire of Pretantia
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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:29 am

Autonomous Titoists wrote:
Mehreen wrote:ANTIFA should be branded as what they are, a terrorist organization. Along with the KKK and any movement that claims to uphold certain liberties and values, but whose actions lead to violence and go against what the movement claims to advocate for. ANTIFA is a ticking time-bomb. The clash of the radicals is coming. Alt-right vs Alt-left. America is more divided than it's ever been and this has trickled down since before the days of Clinton, it intensified under Bush, more so under Obama and now it's reaching crisis point.

To blame division on Trump alone would be foolish. Even if Clinton had won, the division would have been at the same level that it's at now if not at a worse level. Conservatives absolutely despise Hillary Clinton with every fiber of their being. Liberals feel the same way about Trump. Moderates/centrists and non-conformists are probably more for Hillary, but then again, the polls never paint out the true picture. Two extremely polarizing parties lead to a polarized country. ANTIFA is going nowhere, but neither is the KKK. Reality bites and the reality is that no candidate from any party (Libertarians and others included) could possibly remedy this situation because voters don't run America, nor do they have any say in the affairs of the country.

That's why every administration promises many things but never fulfils even a quarter of what they promised their voters. There's simply too much bureaucracy, too much corporate meddling and far too much media peddling to get anything meaningful done. America needs to go back to the drawing board or ANTIFA and the KKK will eventually drag the entire population into their chaos. After all, chaos is a ladder ;)

I got bad news for you, Antifa is not going nowhere. Its active participation in communities fighting off white supremacists raises there support. Sending groups like food not bombs to places like Harvey Texas (and Katrina before that) raises its public image.
Also alt-left isn't a thing :p

Are they a part of Antifa?
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Postby Autonomous Titoists » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:31 am

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Autonomous Titoists wrote:

I got bad news for you, Antifa is not going nowhere. Its active participation in communities fighting off white supremacists raises there support. Sending groups like food not bombs to places like Harvey Texas (and Katrina before that) raises its public image.
Also alt-left isn't a thing :p

Are they a part of Antifa?[/quote]
No one's part of antifa. Its a stand against fascism not an organization like BLM or the KKK. Everyone who fights fascism, hell everyone opposed to fascism, is antifa. Food Not Bombs is just anarchists, mostly mutualists I believe, but I could be wrong.

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The Confederacy of American-States
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Postby The Confederacy of American-States » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:31 am

The idea of Anti-fascism at it's core, is good, the means of achieving it, are bad.

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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:32 am

Autonomous Titoists wrote:No one's part of antifa. Its a stand against fascism not an organization like BLM or the KKK. Everyone who fights fascism, hell everyone opposed to fascism, is antifa. Food Not Bombs is just anarchists, mostly mutualists I believe, but I could be wrong.

I oppose Fascism and I'm not part of Antifa.
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Postby Community Values » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:33 am

Autonomous Titoists wrote:
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:I got bad news for you, Antifa is not going nowhere. Its active participation in communities fighting off white supremacists raises there support. Sending groups like food not bombs to places like Harvey Texas (and Katrina before that) raises its public image.
Also alt-left isn't a thing :p

Are they a part of Antifa?

No one's part of antifa. Its a stand against fascism not an organization like BLM or the KKK. Everyone who fights fascism, hell everyone opposed to fascism, is antifa. Food Not Bombs is just anarchists, mostly mutualists I believe, but I could be wrong.

So even Trump is antifa, then?
Last edited by Community Values on Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Autonomous Titoists » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:33 am

The Confederacy of American-States wrote:The idea of Anti-fascism at it's core, is good, the means of achieving it, are bad.

The means of achieving it are bad? So...we should let Nazis talk about killing the Jews? Allow them to legitimize and spread. They are literal cancer.

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Postby Hirota » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:34 am

Autonomous Titoists wrote:No one's part of antifa. Its a stand against fascism not an organization like BLM or the KKK. Everyone who fights fascism, hell everyone opposed to fascism, is antifa. Food Not Bombs is just anarchists, mostly mutualists I believe, but I could be wrong.
It's this kind of nonsense spiel like "you are either with us or against us" which demonstrates how antifa has become the monster it claims to fight.
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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:35 am

Autonomous Titoists wrote:
The Confederacy of American-States wrote:The idea of Anti-fascism at it's core, is good, the means of achieving it, are bad.

The means of achieving it are bad? So...we should let Nazis talk about killing the Jews? Allow them to legitimize and spread. They are literal cancer.

We've been doing that for seventy years, nobody paid than any kind until some cunts decided they were still a problem.
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Postby Autonomous Titoists » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:35 am

Community Values wrote:So even Trump is antifa, then?

Trump's a statist, he's also done piss poor at denouncing Nazism. Which I know thats a really overused argument but regardless its still embarrassing to see a sitting president say anything other thanNazis are bad.

Edit: also he banked his whole campaign off of riling up white supremacists and legitimizing their position.
Last edited by Autonomous Titoists on Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby The Grene Knyght » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:37 am

Hirota wrote:
Autonomous Titoists wrote:No one's part of antifa. Its a stand against fascism not an organization like BLM or the KKK. Everyone who fights fascism, hell everyone opposed to fascism, is antifa. Food Not Bombs is just anarchists, mostly mutualists I believe, but I could be wrong.
It's this kind of nonsense spiel like "you are either with us or against us" which demonstrates how antifa has become the monster it claims to fight.

Is nonsense spiel such as "you are either with us or against us" the only prerequisite for fascism? If so, I think you're throwing the term around a bit to lightly there, pal.
Last edited by The Grene Knyght on Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Community Values » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:39 am

Autonomous Titoists wrote:
Community Values wrote:So even Trump is antifa, then?

Trump's a statist, he's also done piss poor at denouncing Nazism. Which I know thats a really overused argument but regardless its still embarrassing to see a sitting president say anything other thanNazis are bad.

He still denounces nazism, and he's still against fascism. Just because he does a "piss poor" job at it doesn't mean he doesn't. That being said, going by your definition, isn't he antifa?
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Postby Community Values » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:40 am

Autonomous Titoists wrote:
Edit: also he banked his whole campaign off of riling up white supremacists and legitimizing their position.

Doesn't make him a fascist, and I'm pretty sure if some of those nazi thugs did a march on washington, Trump would send in the army.
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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:41 am

Autonomous Titoists wrote:Edit: also he banked his whole campaign off of riling up white supremacists and legitimizing their position.

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Postby Autonomous Titoists » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:44 am

Community Values wrote:
Autonomous Titoists wrote:
Edit: also he banked his whole campaign off of riling up white supremacists and legitimizing their position.

Doesn't make him a fascist, and I'm pretty sure if some of those nazi thugs did a march on washington, Trump would send in the army.

I agree, Trump's not a fascist, I doubt he'd send the Army against a coalition of Nazis (he didn't use them for the J20 protests), but he's no friend of the people. He literally shits on gold toilets.

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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:45 am

Autonomous Titoists wrote:
Community Values wrote:Doesn't make him a fascist, and I'm pretty sure if some of those nazi thugs did a march on washington, Trump would send in the army.

I agree, Trump's not a fascist, I doubt he'd send the Army against a coalition of Nazis (he didn't use them for the J20 protests)

He was in Germany.
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Postby Community Values » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:47 am

Autonomous Titoists wrote:
Community Values wrote:Doesn't make him a fascist, and I'm pretty sure if some of those nazi thugs did a march on washington, Trump would send in the army.

I agree, Trump's not a fascist, I doubt he'd send the Army against a coalition of Nazis (he didn't use them for the J20 protests), but he's no friend of the people. He literally shits on gold toilets.

That wasn't the point. The point is he's against fascism, however meager that is. And by your definition, that makes him antifa.
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Postby The Confederacy of American-States » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:47 am

Autonomous Titoists wrote:
The Confederacy of American-States wrote:The idea of Anti-fascism at it's core, is good, the means of achieving it, are bad.

The means of achieving it are bad? So...we should let Nazis talk about killing the Jews? Allow them to legitimize and spread. They are literal cancer.

Hitting people and macing them are bad means of achieving what you want, it's hypocritical for antifa to use fascist tactics to fight fascism.

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Postby Autonomous Titoists » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:51 am

The Confederacy of American-States wrote:
Autonomous Titoists wrote:The means of achieving it are bad? So...we should let Nazis talk about killing the Jews? Allow them to legitimize and spread. They are literal cancer.

Hitting people and macing them are bad means of achieving what you want, it's hypocritical for antifa to use fascist tactics to fight fascism.

I'd say they're great means, it prevents them from getting their point across. Why are you treating fascists like they deserve the same respect as the rest of society? And when it comes down to it, its up to the community fighting fascism to decide how best to fight it, if black bloc tactics work then it is their decision. I think it was Huey Newton who said something along the lines of you don't tell the oppressed how to fight off the oppressor.

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Postby Autonomous Titoists » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:52 am

Community Values wrote:
Autonomous Titoists wrote:I agree, Trump's not a fascist, I doubt he'd send the Army against a coalition of Nazis (he didn't use them for the J20 protests), but he's no friend of the people. He literally shits on gold toilets.

That wasn't the point. The point is he's against fascism, however meager that is. And by your definition, that makes him antifa.

I genuinely don't know how to answer you my man (or whatever gender you go with).

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Postby Hirota » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:53 am

The Grene Knyght wrote:
Hirota wrote:It's this kind of nonsense spiel like "you are either with us or against us" which demonstrates how antifa has become the monster it claims to fight.

Is nonsense spiel such as "you are either with us or against us" the only prerequisite for fascism? If so, I think you're throwing the term around a bit to lightly there, pal.
Given that one of the prerequisites for both forms of collectivism in government appears to be a one-party state*, you could argue I'm falling prone to hyperbole (and I'd agree since I know it's one of my many character flaws), but not not by as quite much as you might think.

* the third most likely cause for a one party state tends to be decolonization where the party had an overwhelming role in independence.
Last edited by Hirota on Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Isn't it curious how people will claim they are against tribalism, then pigeonhole themselves into tribes?

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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:55 am

Autonomous Titoists wrote:
The Confederacy of American-States wrote:Hitting people and macing them are bad means of achieving what you want, it's hypocritical for antifa to use fascist tactics to fight fascism.

I'd say they're great means, it prevents them from getting their point across.

No it's not. Common sense and human decency prevent their points from getting across. All is doing is preventing Antifa from getting a positive image.
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:01 am

Autonomous Titoists wrote:But....but they're breaking muh property! Those terrorists.
Break a few bank windows and everyone loses their mind, despite the fact that they are currently and constantly in debt to the bank.

Saw something on Twitter last night. Homeless man robbed a $100 bill from a bank, but was overcome with guilt and turned himself in to the police and returned the money. 15 years in prison. Some guy commits multi-billion dollar fraud. 40 months.


Community Values wrote:
Autonomous Titoists wrote:Trump's a statist, he's also done piss poor at denouncing Nazism. Which I know thats a really overused argument but regardless its still embarrassing to see a sitting president say anything other thanNazis are bad.

He still denounces nazism, and he's still against fascism. Just because he does a "piss poor" job at it doesn't mean he doesn't. That being said, going by your definition, isn't he antifa?

Trump denounces fascism like I apologised for hitting my sister when we were kids. He isn't anti-fascist. He isn't a fascist himself either, I personally don't believe he has any strong political convictions, but he clearly sees fascists as being his people.

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Postby Hirota » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:01 am

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Autonomous Titoists wrote:I'd say they're great means, it prevents them from getting their point across.

No it's not. Common sense and human decency prevent their points from getting across. All is doing is preventing Antifa from getting a positive image.
You know when two kids are fighting in a playground and they blame one another for starting it?

Normally an adult won't give a toss which one is to blame, since they were both acting like dumb kids, and will blame them equally and punish them equally.

Thats similar to what we have here both in micro and macroscopic scales - one dumb kid is blaming the other dumb kid for "starting it," and lacks the self-awareness to understand their own responsibility and how their actions contributed. Hopefully they'll grow out of it one day.
Last edited by Hirota on Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Liriena » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:35 am

Mehreen wrote:ANTIFA should be branded as what they are, a terrorist organization.

How can it be a "terrorist organization" if there is no organization?
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