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Why does everyone think democracy is so great?

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Nuevo Dixie
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Why does everyone think democracy is so great?

Postby Nuevo Dixie » Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:29 pm

Democracy is an utterly overrated system of government because having uneducated turds make important national decisions seems like it would be detrimental to a country. As Socrates once said, "Who would you want want steering a boat; an educated Captain, who has spent his life learning to sail, or an uneducated peasant mob?". That same logic should go for countries as well, right? Wouldn't it be better if educated elites ran a country?

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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:47 pm

Democracy can be two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for dinner.. however it's still better than any historic form of government - the inability to vote out a bad administration leads to oppression and violence - the key point of democracy is not that they vote in the best but that they can vote out the worst.

Having said that, I think there's scope for real debate about whether democracy will be sufficient for the future, when we have machines making decisions faster than democracy can react we will probably encounter some issues.

There's already a philosophy in this centred in the VC/tech community, that a company-style hierarchy is better suited to govern in this world - it's very much part of the current political scene we're seeing played out today.
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Adirondack Commonwealth
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Postby Adirondack Commonwealth » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:49 pm

Yeah, it's not great.
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Lexicor
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Postby Lexicor » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:52 pm

Democracy leads to the scenario where 51% of the population can take away the resources and freedoms of the other 49% using the monopoly of force granted to the state.

Constitutional Republic + Laissez Faire is the best system we have.
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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:54 pm

The Ancien Regime was established by God.
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Adirondack Commonwealth
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Postby Adirondack Commonwealth » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:57 pm

Bombadil wrote: the key point of democracy is not that they vote in the best but that they can vote out the worst.
.


If the big whigs decide to actually do that of course.
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Omnonia
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Postby Omnonia » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:00 pm

I'll go with C.S.Lewis:

I am a democrat [proponent of democracy] because I believe in the Fall of Man.

I think most people are democrats for the opposite reason. A great deal of democratic enthusiasm descends from the ideas of people like Rousseau, who believed in democracy because they thought mankind so wise and good that every one deserved a share in the government.

The danger of defending democracy on those grounds is that they’re not true. . . . I find that they’re not true without looking further than myself. I don’t deserve a share in governing a hen-roost. Much less a nation. . . .

The real reason for democracy is just the reverse. Mankind is so fallen that no man can be trusted with unchecked power over his fellows. Aristotle said that some people were only fit to be slaves. I do not contradict him. But I reject slavery because I see no men fit to be masters.
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The Widening Gyre
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Postby The Widening Gyre » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:01 pm

That was Plato speaking through the literary Socrates, not Socrates himself. EDIT: Or more accurately, you paraphrasing Plato since I can't actually find that specific quote anywhere. And of course if were indulging in argumentum ad Graecam I could equally say that Aristotle pointed out that it was completely unnecessary for the rulers of the state to be philosophers - they merely needed to listen to the wise and have their decisions be informed by their wisdom. Democracies have dedicated civil services that can perform that task more than adequately.
Last edited by The Widening Gyre on Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Imperium Eurasium
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Postby Imperium Eurasium » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:02 pm

Bombadil wrote: the key point of democracy is not that they vote in the best but that they can vote out the worst.

You say this, but then try living in a place like Lebanon. Or Greece. Or Germany. Or Italy.
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The Widening Gyre
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Postby The Widening Gyre » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:02 pm

*accidental double post*
Last edited by The Widening Gyre on Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:02 pm

Nuevo Dixie wrote:Democracy is an utterly overrated system of government because having uneducated turds make important national decisions seems like it would be detrimental to a country. As Socrates once said, "Who would you want want steering a boat; an educated Captain, who has spent his life learning to sail, or an uneducated peasant mob?". That same logic should go for countries as well, right? Wouldn't it be better if educated elites ran a country?

It seems to me that many politicians have college degrees.
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:03 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:The Ancien Regime was established by God.

That didn't certainly didn't help preserve it.
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:03 pm

Imperium Eurasium wrote:
Bombadil wrote: the key point of democracy is not that they vote in the best but that they can vote out the worst.

You say this, but then try living in a place like Lebanon. Or Greece. Or Germany. Or Italy.

You went from bad to kinda bad to good straight back to bad.
:p
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The DNC is better than the GOP like Manslaughter is better than Murder: Seems like a lesser crime, but the victim can't tell the difference.

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The Widening Gyre
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Postby The Widening Gyre » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:03 pm

Genivaria wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:The Ancien Regime was established by God.

That didn't certainly didn't help preserve it.


Clearly the National Razor was guided by the hand of God when it parted Louis' head from his shoulders.
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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:04 pm

Imperium Eurasium wrote:
Bombadil wrote: the key point of democracy is not that they vote in the best but that they can vote out the worst.

You say this, but then try living in a place like Lebanon. Or Greece. Or Germany. Or Italy.


The ability is there regardless of one's partisan views of worst.
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Imperium Eurasium
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Postby Imperium Eurasium » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:05 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Imperium Eurasium wrote:You say this, but then try living in a place like Lebanon. Or Greece. Or Germany. Or Italy.

You went from bad to kinda bad to good straight back to bad.
:p

The last German Chancellor worthy of respect was Adenauer imo.
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:05 pm

The Widening Gyre wrote:
Genivaria wrote:That didn't certainly didn't help preserve it.


Clearly the National Razor was guided by the hand of God when it parted Louis' head from his shoulders.

What was it Benjamin Franklin said?
Ah right. "Defiance of Tyranny is Obedience to God."
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The DNC is better than the GOP like Manslaughter is better than Murder: Seems like a lesser crime, but the victim can't tell the difference.

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Imperium Eurasium
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Postby Imperium Eurasium » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:06 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Imperium Eurasium wrote:You say this, but then try living in a place like Lebanon. Or Greece. Or Germany. Or Italy.


The ability is there regardless of one's partisan views of worst.

"Ability". There is no ability. What ability there may have been was snuffed out by the Syrians in 1982.
Eurasian Empire inspired by Rome, Sassanid Persia, and China. Falangist ideology. Bachir Gemayel did nothing wrong. France shouldn't have left Lebanon.

Pros: Falangism, Italian Fascism, Non-Racism, Christianity, Judaism, Phoenicia, Mediterranean Civilization, Classicism, Corporatism, Nationalist Syndicalism, Monogamy, cats. Byzantine Empire

Neutral: Islam, Transgender people, dogs, Protestantism, Republicans

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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:10 pm

Imperium Eurasium wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
The ability is there regardless of one's partisan views of worst.

"Ability". There is no ability. What ability there may have been was snuffed out by the Syrians in 1982.


Jesus..

EDIT: To be clear, I'm expressing despair at your utterly pointless irrelevancy.
Last edited by Bombadil on Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mike the Progressive
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Postby Mike the Progressive » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:12 pm

I don't. I think it's shit and I've been saying so for some time. Want an example? Look at Switzerland. They fucking banned minarets for Allah's sake.

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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:23 pm

Mike the Progressive wrote:I don't. I think it's shit and I've been saying so for some time. Want an example? Look at Switzerland. They fucking banned minarets for Allah's sake.

...? *Googles*
....A...lighthouse?
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Mike the Progressive
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Postby Mike the Progressive » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:26 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Mike the Progressive wrote:I don't. I think it's shit and I've been saying so for some time. Want an example? Look at Switzerland. They fucking banned minarets for Allah's sake.

...? *Googles*
....A...lighthouse?


What? I'm talking about this.

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Great Sofannia
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Postby Great Sofannia » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:28 pm

A country is not a ship; its' failure does not necessitate the destruction of all life within its' borders. smh

Democracy is good because it keeps the populace from having to put up with shitbaggery for long enough to eventually revolt. No, it's not the best, but that's because humans are flawed.
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Computer Lab
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Postby Computer Lab » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:38 pm

^This

There isn't a political system that truly works, but in my book a stable decent country is better than continuous violent revolution to achieve a perfect country.
Democracy allows the people to show their disapproval and outrage in a nonviolent way. If it isn't released somehow, then it will become a revolution; history is clear enough on that.
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Kostemetsia
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Postby Kostemetsia » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:52 pm

Bombadil wrote:Democracy can be two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for dinner.. however it's still better than any historic form of government - the inability to vote out a bad administration leads to oppression and violence - the key point of democracy is not that they vote in the best but that they can vote out the worst.

Having said that, I think there's scope for real debate about whether democracy will be sufficient for the future, when we have machines making decisions faster than democracy can react we will probably encounter some issues.

There's already a philosophy in this centred in the VC/tech community, that a company-style hierarchy is better suited to govern in this world - it's very much part of the current political scene we're seeing played out today.

Forgive me for thinking capitalists liking capitalism might be a little biased. :P

I definitely think a more agile executive is important, though, but also one that's more strongly regulated and held to higher ethical standards while it's in.
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