Antifa Discussion Thread

[Cedoria]

Both sides exercised first amendment rights. One side drove a car into the other and committed murder to intimidate their opponents. Was it Antifa that did that?

You are the one with the false equivalency here.

No, we should really "both sides this" after nazis just murdered someone. After all, we are smart, sensible centrists.

Being non-judgemental is also a position in and of itself. Some centrists need to remember that neutrality is just as strong a choice as picking a side.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

No, we should really "both sides this" after nazis just murdered someone. After all, we are smart, sensible centrists.

Being non-judgemental is also a position in and of itself. Some centrists need to remember that neutrality is just as strong a choice as picking a side.

Tell me how well that worked out for Neville Chamberlain.

[Dorran]

They listen to violence against themselves? Perhaps, but all it does is give Nazis a chance to say, "Look, we're being attacked! We're being persecuted for our beliefs! Look at those bad guys over there!" and thus gives them extra leverage to win people who are not far-left over to their side. Using physical violence to shut down a group of people will just result in them trying harder to take over.

Except this doesnt happen. Look at history and look at right now. They're a bunch of nerds and pussies who get scared when actually confronted.

I've seen the videos, I don't see fascists running away from fights, but starting them and diving right into them. And really, if they're a bunch of "nerds and pussies," as you so eloquently put it, do we really need violence to scare them off? Seems a bit like an overreaction, if they're really so weak. Which we know they are not, or else the alt-right would have shut down the instant ANTIFA got started.

[Cedoria]

Being non-judgemental is also a position in and of itself. Some centrists need to remember that neutrality is just as strong a choice as picking a side.

Tell me how well that worked out for Neville Chamberlain.

Not well. Hence why I suggest not being like him... He's rather a good illustration of the point I was making.

[War Gears]

And the Right who rigged the Italian Elections in 1948 with CIA assistance after the partisans had given Mussolini just payment for his crimes...

Partisans who associated with the Soviets and who committed gruesome crimes in Italy against peasants (as well as attacking Germans in ways they knew would specifically result in reprisals on the populace). But that doesn't really fit the narrative does it?

[The Two Jerseys]

Because Americans exercising their First Amendment rights and foreign belligerents in a declared state of war are totally the same thing!

Seriously, this false equivalence needs to end.

Both sides exercised first amendment rights. One side drove a car into the other and committed murder to intimidate their opponents. Was it Antifa that did that?

You are the one with the false equivalency here.

And who showed up in Berkeley and started setting stuff on fire, attacking people with pepper spray, and throwing rocks at the police just because Milo Yiannopolous was scheduled to give a speech?

Yes, it was Antifa who did that.

And again: American citizens who hold Nazi beliefs are not Germans in a declared state of war against the US.

[Republic of the Cristo]

They listen to violence against themselves? Perhaps, but all it does is give Nazis a chance to say, "Look, we're being attacked! We're being persecuted for our beliefs! Look at those bad guys over there!" and thus gives them extra leverage to win people who are not far-left over to their side. Using physical violence to shut down a group of people will just result in them trying harder to take over.

Except this doesnt happen. Look at history and look at right now. They're a bunch of nerds and pussies who get scared when actually confronted.

... Aren't Antifa infamous for concealing their faces during their counter ' protests '? I am not with the white nationalists, but putting your face out there to see in front of a hated ideology and knowing that a bunch of adrenaline pumped hooligans are probably going to throw bricks at your for it is pretty brave to me.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Antifa is not group, terrorist or otherwise. It is a social movement. Some people who identify as antifa are willing to confront neofascists violently. Others (myself included) have never used violent tactics. Antifa is exactly what the acronym indicates: antifascism. No more, no less.

[MERIZoC]

Except this doesnt happen. Look at history and look at right now. They're a bunch of nerds and pussies who get scared when actually confronted.

I've seen the videos, I don't see fascists running away from fights, but starting them and diving right into them. And really, if they're a bunch of "nerds and pussies," as you so eloquently put it, do we really need violence to scare them off? Seems a bit like an overreaction, if they're really so weak. Which we know they are not, or else the alt-right would have shut down the instant ANTIFA got started.

https://www.gq.com/story/charlottesville-white-supremacist-strips-to-escape-protestors
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=lyeTj002DCo

These people are fundamentally cowards, and do not react well when met with the same violence they wish to inflict on groups they see as "lesser".

[Cedoria]

Except this doesnt happen. Look at history and look at right now. They're a bunch of nerds and pussies who get scared when actually confronted.

I've seen the videos, I don't see fascists running away from fights, but starting them and diving right into them. And really, if they're a bunch of "nerds and pussies," as you so eloquently put it, do we really need violence to scare them off? Seems a bit like an overreaction, if they're really so weak. Which we know they are not, or else the alt-right would have shut down the instant ANTIFA got started.

Exactly. They don't seem to be pussies crying when they get hurt. And since they've literally JUST butchered someone on the streets of Charlottesville, one would think some people would begin too wake up to the fact that when you've got people being butchered on the streets, the people doing the murdering are no longer just sad, pathetic ranters who can't do real damage.

But forgive me for disturbing the comfortable bubble of the centrists who continue happily along their merry world condemning both sides as equally bad even when one has just been publicly murdered by the other on the streets.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Being non-judgemental is also a position in and of itself. Some centrists need to remember that neutrality is just as strong a choice as picking a side.

Tell me how well that worked out for Neville Chamberlain.

How well that worked out for over a dozen million or so Soviet citizens, thousands of Frenchmen and Britons, millions of Jews, homosexuals, political dissidents and other "undesirable subhumans"?
Because the German national socialists also started out as mobs brawling with the leftists.

[Dorran]

No, we should really "both sides this" after nazis just murdered someone. After all, we are smart, sensible centrists.

Being non-judgemental is also a position in and of itself. Some centrists need to remember that neutrality is just as strong a choice as picking a side.

Well, no, I really don't think that being neutral in the subtle, nuanced "fascist v. not fascist" debate is an option. We've seen this government system before, and we know it needs to be shouted down and voted out before it has a chance to solidify control. Condemning violence is one thing, remaining silent when fascists scream in the streets is quite another.

[Republic of the Cristo]

Antifa is not group, terrorist or otherwise. It is a social movement. Some people who identify as antifa are willing to confront neofascists violently. Others (myself included) have never used violent tactics. Antifa is exactly what the acronym indicates: antifascism. No more, no less.

But there are self-identified anti-fascist groups, remember BAMN?

[MERIZoC]

Except this doesnt happen. Look at history and look at right now. They're a bunch of nerds and pussies who get scared when actually confronted.

... Aren't Antifa infamous for concealing their faces during their counter ' protests '? I am not with the white nationalists, but putting your face out there to see in front of a hated ideology and knowing that a bunch of adrenaline pumped hooligans are probably going to throw bricks at your for it is pretty brave to me.

At least one nazi has lost his job for his participation in the riots this past week. Don't confuse idiocy with bravery. Wearing masks is a smart idea when the police are far less sympathetic to you than the people on the other side.

[Cedoria]

I've seen the videos, I don't see fascists running away from fights, but starting them and diving right into them. And really, if they're a bunch of "nerds and pussies," as you so eloquently put it, do we really need violence to scare them off? Seems a bit like an overreaction, if they're really so weak. Which we know they are not, or else the alt-right would have shut down the instant ANTIFA got started.

https://www.gq.com/story/charlottesville-white-supremacist-strips-to-escape-protestors
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=lyeTj002DCo

These people are fundamentally cowards, and do not react well when met with the same violence they wish to inflict on groups they see as "lesser".

Perhaps we need more of that then. Not going too the same level that they would of course, but to a level necessary, (which given their still small numbers and relatively pathetic people, is probably not much).

[Cedoria]

Being non-judgemental is also a position in and of itself. Some centrists need to remember that neutrality is just as strong a choice as picking a side.

Well, no, I really don't think that being neutral in the subtle, nuanced "fascist v. not fascist" debate is an option. We've seen this government system before, and we know it needs to be shouted down and voted out before it has a chance to solidify control. Condemning violence is one thing, remaining silent when fascists scream in the streets is quite another.

That was precisely my point.

Except that the Fascists are doing more than just screaming in the streets, now they're murdering people with impunity. That's another level again.

[MERIZoC]

I've seen the videos, I don't see fascists running away from fights, but starting them and diving right into them. And really, if they're a bunch of "nerds and pussies," as you so eloquently put it, do we really need violence to scare them off? Seems a bit like an overreaction, if they're really so weak. Which we know they are not, or else the alt-right would have shut down the instant ANTIFA got started.

Exactly. They don't seem to be pussies crying when they get hurt. And since they've literally JUST butchered someone on the streets of Charlottesville, one would think some people would begin too wake up to the fact that when you've got people being butchered on the streets, the people doing the murdering are no longer just sad, pathetic ranters who can't do real damage.

But forgive me for disturbing the comfortable bubble of the centrists who continue happily along their merry world condemning both sides as equally bad even when one has just been publicly murdered by the other on the streets.

Oh, they absolutely are a threat, and that's why I think people need to confront them head on, with enough force that they're scared to organize.

[Redsection]

The fascists of the world remember what the anarchists , socialists , and communists did to the people's and clergy of Spain , we remember what you did in Italy , we remember the clashes had in Ireland and England. It's time to stop hiding behind the guise of proud vigilantes fighting the " fight "

And here I thought it was Franco who invaded and destroyed the Spanish republic... And the Right. who rigged the Italian Elections in 1948 with CIA assistance after the partisans had given Mussolini just payment for his crimes...

This is precisely the point I am making about ludicrously stupid false equivalencies. Can we just accept that Nazism is NOT the same thing as those who oppose it, and that the two are not equally valid but opposing viewpoints lying on a reasonable spectrum? This shouldn't be difficult to grasp.

If one does not listen to reason about why those who oppose Nazis are not as bad as those who favour them, yes, we are entitled to question why.

I wonder why Franco would do such a thing ......I wonder why the Carlists , Falange , traditionalists turned on a corrupted and ineffective government. I wonder why the spaniards hated the church burners and rapists. I also recall the leftist rubbish that had Mussolini's corpse hung to be desecrated after all he had done. He freed the Ethiopians from their savage government , drained marshland to create towns and farms for the people , modernized the Italian rail system , built successful and thriving colonies and infrastructure in Libya. Mussolini even had mercy shown to the Jews by sending them to concentration camps in southern Italy where they were rather safe compared to what the Germans pressured them to do. The Jews marched on Rome with our kind , served in the Italian military .......Mussolini even supported the idea of a Jewish state. He aided the Lehi and Avraham stern.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Well, no, I really don't think that being neutral in the subtle, nuanced "fascist v. not fascist" debate is an option. We've seen this government system before, and we know it needs to be shouted down and voted out before it has a chance to solidify control. Condemning violence is one thing, remaining silent when fascists scream in the streets is quite another.

That was precisely my point.

Except that the Fascists are doing more than just screaming in the streets, now they're murdering people with impunity again. That's another level again.

Let's fix that shall we? :P

[Cedoria]

Tell me how well that worked out for Neville Chamberlain.

How well that worked out for over a dozen million or so Soviet citizens, thousands of Frenchmen and Britons, millions of Jews, homosexuals, political dissidents and other "undesirable subhumans"?
Because the German national socialists also started out as mobs brawling with the leftists.

All of whom would likely have died in far greater numbers had the National Socialists been left too their work. Anybody who believes the persecution of those undesirables was just a consequence of war and not a core component of the National Socialist program (or in the case of Jews, the raison d'etre of it), is a complete moron.
This objection is the most contemptible I've seen today, and that's quite an achievement.

[Dorran]

I've seen the videos, I don't see fascists running away from fights, but starting them and diving right into them. And really, if they're a bunch of "nerds and pussies," as you so eloquently put it, do we really need violence to scare them off? Seems a bit like an overreaction, if they're really so weak. Which we know they are not, or else the alt-right would have shut down the instant ANTIFA got started.

Exactly. They don't seem to be pussies crying when they get hurt. And since they've literally JUST butchered someone on the streets of Charlottesville, one would think some people would begin too wake up to the fact that when you've got people being butchered on the streets, the people doing the murdering are no longer just sad, pathetic ranters who can't do real damage.

But forgive me for disturbing the comfortable bubble of the centrists who continue happily along their merry world condemning both sides as equally bad even when one has just been publicly murdered by the other on the streets.

I'm not certain if the last sentence was directed at myself or not, but I'd like to respond to it for the record. ANTIFA is NOT "equally bad" as the neo-nazis/alt-right/whatever-you-want-to-call-fascists. My point is simply that their methods create a false equivalence, making it really easy for centrists to make the statement "both sides are equally terrible and I'm just gonna keep out of it." We CANNOT afford neutrality in the fight against fascism, but using violence is going to create exactly that.

[Republic of the Cristo]

... Aren't Antifa infamous for concealing their faces during their counter ' protests '? I am not with the white nationalists, but putting your face out there to see in front of a hated ideology and knowing that a bunch of adrenaline pumped hooligans are probably going to throw bricks at your for it is pretty brave to me.

At least one nazi has lost his job for his participation in the riots this past week. Don't confuse idiocy with bravery. Wearing masks is a smart idea when the police are far less sympathetic to you than the people on the other side.

The police are against those who start violence, and more often then not it is the ANTIFA groups. Violent far-right ( I use that as an umbrella term, I get that strasserists might not fall under this but bear with me ) rarely show up to start violence in counter protests, and when they do they seldom come out in the numbers that ANTIFA does.

[Cedoria]

And here I thought it was Franco who invaded and destroyed the Spanish republic... And the Right. who rigged the Italian Elections in 1948 with CIA assistance after the partisans had given Mussolini just payment for his crimes...

This is precisely the point I am making about ludicrously stupid false equivalencies. Can we just accept that Nazism is NOT the same thing as those who oppose it, and that the two are not equally valid but opposing viewpoints lying on a reasonable spectrum? This shouldn't be difficult to grasp.

If one does not listen to reason about why those who oppose Nazis are not as bad as those who favour them, yes, we are entitled to question why.

I wonder why Franco would do such a thing ......I wonder why the Carlists , Falange , traditionalists turned on a corrupted and ineffective government. I wonder why the spaniards hated the church burners and rapists. I also recall the leftist rubbish that had Mussolini's corpse hung to be desecrated after all he had done. He freed the Ethiopians from their savage government , drained marshland to create towns and farms for the people , modernized the Italian rail system , built successful and thriving colonies and infrastructure in Libya. Mussolini even had mercy shown to the Jews by sending them to concentration camps in southern Italy where they were rather safe compared to what the Germans pressured them to do. The Jews marched on Rome with our kind , served in the Italian military .......Mussolini even supported the idea of a Jewish state. He aided the Lehi and Avraham stern.

Leave your fetishisation for Il Duce elsewhere thanks, I have no interest in people like you.


Mussolini's corpse was hung to be desecrated. Good. That's what he deserved, it's not like he was at a point where he was liable to care at that point anyway.


Literally every totalitarian apologist in history has used "the trains ran on time" as an excuse. Plenty of other nation's have done this without the need for tyranny. Take the fascist apologist shtick and put it where the moon don't shine.

[Republic of the Cristo]

That was precisely my point.

Except that the Fascists are doing more than just screaming in the streets, now they're murdering people with impunity again. That's another level again.

Let's fix that shall we?

that guy got arrested and is probably getting the death penalty. What do you mean impunity?

[Cedoria]

Exactly. They don't seem to be pussies crying when they get hurt. And since they've literally JUST butchered someone on the streets of Charlottesville, one would think some people would begin too wake up to the fact that when you've got people being butchered on the streets, the people doing the murdering are no longer just sad, pathetic ranters who can't do real damage.

But forgive me for disturbing the comfortable bubble of the centrists who continue happily along their merry world condemning both sides as equally bad even when one has just been publicly murdered by the other on the streets.

I'm not certain if the last sentence was directed at myself or not, but I'd like to respond to it for the record. ANTIFA is NOT "equally bad" as the neo-nazis/alt-right/whatever-you-want-to-call-fascists. My point is simply that their methods create a false equivalence, making it really easy for centrists to make the statement "both sides are equally terrible and I'm just gonna keep out of it." We CANNOT afford neutrality in the fight against fascism, but using violence is going to create exactly that.

The last sentence was a general point, not at you specifically.

What makes you think violence creates neutrality? If anything, it seems to have the opposite effect. Why is it that excuses and justifications are made when one side runs down a political opponent on the street and injures dozens, but when the other side commits (comparatively mild) actions it's worthy of condemnation and rants about Leftie terror?

There is something very sickly about this sort of non-judgementalism, and it'll be the death of us if we don't snap out of it.