NationStates

Baltimore has now become the next municipality to announce they are going to remove confederate monuments

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/in ... a14d4e2627

Some on the city council have called for the monuments to not only be removed but be destroyed.

Im very conflicted about this. On the one hand these were people who fought against the country and fought a rebellion but it is a part of history and history should never be forgotten.
But on the other they are memorializing people who fought against what the country stands for. People like Justice Roger Taney whom one of the monuments in Baltimore is of authored the infamous Dred Scott decision. A bust or statue of him should not be destroyed as it was the Dred Scott decision that helped lead to the civil war.

If places want to remove them they should be put in museums but certainly not destroyed.

Update: the statues have been removed. Their future has not been decided yet. http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryla ... story.html

What's your thoughts NSG on this contentious issue?

If they're going to, stick em in a museum somewhere.

Alvecia wrote:If they're going to, stick em in a museum somewhere.

I don't disagree. Destroying them is wrong.

As I said in the other umpteen iterations of this thread, they're cheap Jim Crow era propaganda pieces that should have been destroyed years ago. Good riddance.

Alvecia wrote:If they're going to, stick em in a museum somewhere.

That would be preferable to destruction, in my opinion.

The Widening Gyre wrote:As I said in the other umpteen iterations of this thread, they're cheap Jim Crow era propaganda pieces that should have been destroyed years ago. Good riddance.

No they should not be destroyed. How far do you want to take that? Should confederate cemeteries be destroyed? Should the home of Jefferson Davis be demolished?

Should counties named for the confederate leaders be changed?

Many of the people don't understand that many of these statues, especially in the northern states, are not the glorification of the confederacy. Rather, they are a tribute to the hundreds of thousands of soldiers that died for a cause many were forced to join. As you can see here with the Baltimore monument. Removing these kind of statues is honestly stupid, but if removed, should at least be kept in a safe location, like a museum.

I am extremely opposed to this idea. All historical artefacts need to be preserved and kept so that future generations can learn from them. Even if the artifices were the most morally reprehensible things in the world there is still something future people could learn them. In fact, this is escpecially important with artifacts celebrating evil because they remind us not to repeat the same mistakes again.

Save a few of the oldest but most can just be tossed.

Kenmoria wrote:I am extremely opposed to this idea. All historical artefacts need to be preserved and kept so that future generations can learn from them. Even if the artifices were the most morally reprehensible things in the world there is still something future people could learn them. In fact, this is escpecially important with artifacts celebrating evil because they remind us not to repeat the same mistakes again.

It's probably easier to preserve artifacts in a museum

Vivida Vis Animi wrote:Save a few of the oldest but most can just be tossed.

History should never be tossed.

Welp, how long until they're graced with heavily armed "peaceful protesters" from far right and far left and swivel-eyed numpties practicing their Carmageddon doriftu?

By the grace of the gods I'm not American, but my opinion...take them out of open ground to protect them from vandalism and becoming rally points for radicals, but be very clear early on that they're going to a museum. Destroying them is needlessly provocative and like trying to snuff candles with petrol and a flamethrower.

Oh for crying out loud, what is it with these people? History is history, whether you like it or not.

San Lumen wrote:

Vivida Vis Animi wrote:Save a few of the oldest but most can just be tossed.

History should never be tossed.

Considering a good lot of them were placed simply to intimidate black people I think it's safe to say that this part of history in particular doesn't need to be preserved to its fullest extent. Besides, you don't need to save every last statue (especially when they were produced en masse) to tell the story of the South, slavery, Jim Crow, Civil Rights movement, etc.

Vivida Vis Animi wrote:

San Lumen wrote:History should never be tossed.

Considering a good lot of them were placed simply to intimidate black people I think it's safe to say that this part of history in particular doesn't need to be preserved to its fullest extent. Besides, you don't need to save every last statue (especially when they were produced en masse) to tell the story of the South, slavery, Jim Crow, Civil Rights movement, etc.

Should we have destroyed the Concentration Camps after World War 2?

I think that these monuments need to be preserved and kept in their original locations. Yes, I don't support white supremacy, but, future generations need to be taught about their country's history, even all the terrible, tragic events. After all, those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

As long as the people agree to it, I'm good with whatever happens to them.

Alvecia wrote:If they're going to, stick em in a museum somewhere.

Agreed.

Dylar wrote:I think that these monuments need to be preserved and kept in their original locations. Yes, I don't support white supremacy, but, future generations need to be taught about their country's history, even all the terrible, tragic events. After all, those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

I agree and if you absolutely want to remove them they should be put in museums so they are not forgotten.

San Lumen wrote:

Vivida Vis Animi wrote:Considering a good lot of them were placed simply to intimidate black people I think it's safe to say that this part of history in particular doesn't need to be preserved to its fullest extent. Besides, you don't need to save every last statue (especially when they were produced en masse) to tell the story of the South, slavery, Jim Crow, Civil Rights movement, etc.

Should we have destroyed the Concentration Camps after World War 2?

Are we seriously comparing statues of confederates to concentration camps? There's a difference between "symbols meant to intimidate" and "literal death camps." Perhaps you should take a moment to think about what you just said and how absolutely ridiculous it is before you say anything else.

San Lumen wrote:

Dylar wrote:I think that these monuments need to be preserved and kept in their original locations. Yes, I don't support white supremacy, but, future generations need to be taught about their country's history, even all the terrible, tragic events. After all, those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

I agree and if you absolutely want to remove them they should be put in museums so they are not forgotten.

I mean, let's be honest. No-one's gonna be forgetting the Civil War any time soon.

#teamstark

San Lumen wrote:No they should not be destroyed. How far do you want to take that? Should confederate cemeteries be destroyed? Should the home of Jefferson Davis be demolished?

Confederate cemetaries and era-homes are actual historical sites from the period. These statues were put up 50-100 years after the fact.

San Lumen wrote:Should counties named for the confederate leaders be changed?

Yeah, quite frankly. We'd look askance at a Goebelstrasse in Berlin, why should we tolerate the same thing here?

Alvecia wrote:

San Lumen wrote:I agree and if you absolutely want to remove them they should be put in museums so they are not forgotten.

I mean, let's be honest. No-one's gonna be forgetting the Civil War any time soon.

#teamstark

True but important people from the time period shouldn't be forgotten either.

San Lumen wrote:

Alvecia wrote:I mean, let's be honest. No-one's gonna be forgetting the Civil War any time soon.

#teamstark

True but important people from the time period shouldn't be forgotten either.

Yeah, but statues aren't the only reason we know about them.