Australian Government on Brink of Collapse

[Bears Armed]

Kind've like the USA's rule that you have to be born an American to be President. A kid born in Canada by Canadian parents, who moves to the US a few weeks after being born and is raised their entire life in America, can't be President. On the other hand, a kid who's born in Canada to American parents that own a cottage in the US (thus having American citizenship at birth) could not set foot in the US until they're a grown-ass man, and still be eligible for the presidency.

That rule used to be interpreted as requiring that the kid actually be born within the USA, not just to parents with US citizenship. Apparently [for example] there was a fuss raised when Mitt Romney's father was being considered as a possible candidate, because he might have been born at a LDS settlement in Mexico rather than in the USA...

[AiliailiA]

Kind've like the USA's rule that you have to be born an American to be President. A kid born in Canada by Canadian parents, who moves to the US a few weeks after being born and is raised their entire life in America, can't be President. On the other hand, a kid who's born in Canada to American parents that own a cottage in the US (thus having American citizenship at birth) could not set foot in the US until they're a grown-ass man, and still be eligible for the presidency.

That rule used to be interpreted as requiring that the kid actually be born within the USA, not just to parents with US citizenship. Apparently [for example] there was a fuss raised when Mitt Romney's father was being considered as a possible candidate, because he might have been born at a LDS settlement in Mexico rather than in the USA...

Yah, I defy any constitutional literalist to explain how "natural born citizen" means either of those things, when the literal meaning is any citizen other than one born by caesarian section. Anyway, that's the US, this thread is for making fun of the Australian constitution

[Cedoria]

That rule used to be interpreted as requiring that the kid actually be born within the USA, not just to parents with US citizenship. Apparently [for example] there was a fuss raised when Mitt Romney's father was being considered as a possible candidate, because he might have been born at a LDS settlement in Mexico rather than in the USA...

Yah, I defy any constitutional literalist to explain how "natural born citizen" means either of those things, when the literal meaning is any citizen other than one born by caesarian section. Anyway, that's the US, this thread is for making fun of the Australian constitution

Too be fair, it's pretty easy to mock our Constitution compared to the US...

[Southeastern Xiatao]

The Australian government won't collapse it just is going to change simply. I honestly doubt that the government of Australia would collapse.

Not to mention what do you mean by the Australian government collapsing over dual citizenship issue? Do you mean as in a change in government and politics? Or do you mean (which highly I doubt) Australian government collapsing resulting in it becoming like Somalia?

[Southeastern Xiatao]

Kind've like the USA's rule that you have to be born an American to be President. A kid born in Canada by Canadian parents, who moves to the US a few weeks after being born and is raised their entire life in America, can't be President. On the other hand, a kid who's born in Canada to American parents that own a cottage in the US (thus having American citizenship at birth) could not set foot in the US until they're a grown-ass man, and still be eligible for the presidency.

That rule used to be interpreted as requiring that the kid actually be born within the USA, not just to parents with US citizenship. Apparently [for example] there was a fuss raised when Mitt Romney's father was being considered as a possible candidate, because he might have been born at a LDS settlement in Mexico rather than in the USA...

Birthright citizenship doesn't exist in Australia (even though I think it should), if you are born in Australia or overseas to Australian parents or at least a parent that is Australian you pretty much are given automatic citizenship at birth. However if you were born in Australia to parents that both aren't Australian citizens you don't automatically become a citizen at birth.

In this case basically in Australia people born to non-citizens in Australia basically become Australian citizens once they are 10 years old (that is if you are still living in Australia and haven't moved overseas either).

Though in my opinion I would argue that Australia should adopt birthright citizenship, but then again there are plenty of cons with it especially with the fact that some refugees in Australia would abuse birthright citizenship.

[Southeastern Xiatao]

Fun fact almost all nations in the Americas have birthright citizenship including Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Peru, Canada, and the US. It is interesting to note how most of the Americas use birthright citizenship.

[Southeastern Xiatao]

I always favor a center-left party over a center-right one, but I must say Turnbull's a pretty good prime minister and Shorten's about the dullest guy on Earth.

Turnbull is probably more left wing then either recent Labor PM (Gillard or Rudd).

Turnbull so far is an alright PM, but then again I argue that Rudd was a good PM for preventing Australia from get into the Great Recession. Gillard I think she was an alright prime minister too, sure she had some conservative views (especially with same-sex marriage) but overall she is basically a moderate the way I see her. I honestly do wish she didn't lose against Abbott in 2013.

[Yugosia]

The Australian constitution states that New Zealand is a state of Australia, from the perspective of the constitution a New Zealand citizenship cannot exist.

www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_ ... 30/s6.html

[Southeastern Xiatao]

The Australian constitution states that New Zealand is a state of Australia, from the perspective of the constitution a New Zealand citizenship cannot exist.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/ ... 30/s6.html

That is because that when Australia was formed in 1901 as a British dominion, Australia proposed that New Zealand should become a state (along with Fiji as well, NO JOKE LOOK IT UP!). However New Zealand pretty much rejected it due to Australia's White Australia Policy, its mistreatment toward Aborigines (and if New Zealand had joined Australia the same mistreatment would go towards the Maori as well), and also the fact that New Zealanders had already had their own separate identity differing slightly from Australians.

This of course resulted in New Zealand being made its own dominion as a result.

[Arvug]

The Australian constitution states that New Zealand is a state of Australia, from the perspective of the constitution a New Zealand citizenship cannot exist.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/ ... 30/s6.html

That is because that when Australia was formed in 1901 as a British dominion, Australia proposed that New Zealand should become a state (along with Fiji as well, NO JOKE LOOK IT UP!). However New Zealand pretty much rejected it due to Australia's White Australia Policy, its mistreatment toward Aborigines (and if New Zealand had joined Australia the same mistreatment would go towards the Maori as well), and also the fact that New Zealanders had already had their own separate identity differing slightly from Australians.

This of course resulted in New Zealand being made its own dominion as a result.

I'm aware of this, i'm Australian myself.

However the legal language still exists within our constitution, and pathways still exist for New Zealand to join the federation if they want to.

Edit: Yugosia is an alt account, i must of switched at some point

[Southeastern Xiatao]

That is because that when Australia was formed in 1901 as a British dominion, Australia proposed that New Zealand should become a state (along with Fiji as well, NO JOKE LOOK IT UP!). However New Zealand pretty much rejected it due to Australia's White Australia Policy, its mistreatment toward Aborigines (and if New Zealand had joined Australia the same mistreatment would go towards the Maori as well), and also the fact that New Zealanders had already had their own separate identity differing slightly from Australians.

This of course resulted in New Zealand being made its own dominion as a result.

I'm aware of this, i'm Australian myself.

However the legal language still exists within our constitution, and pathways still exist for New Zealand to join the federation if they want to.

Edit: Yugosia is an alt account, i must of switched at some point

You are correct, New Zealand can if it wanted to still join as apart of Australia. But when it comes to regard to same-sex marriage (which New Zealand legalized in 2013) would it be repealed by the Australian parliament or would it be kept? I mean I was informed by Aussie friends of my online Garry's Mod that many Australian same-sex couples move to New Zealand so they can be married and recognized as married couples by the NZ government thus remaining in NZ.

[San Lumen]

The Australian government won't collapse it just is going to change simply. I honestly doubt that the government of Australia would collapse.

Not to mention what do you mean by the Australian government collapsing over dual citizenship issue? Do you mean as in a change in government and politics? Or do you mean (which highly I doubt) Australian government collapsing resulting in it becoming like Somalia?

When someone refers to the government collapsing it usually means a dissolving of parliament and a new election held.

[Arvug]

The Australian government won't collapse it just is going to change simply. I honestly doubt that the government of Australia would collapse.

Not to mention what do you mean by the Australian government collapsing over dual citizenship issue? Do you mean as in a change in government and politics? Or do you mean (which highly I doubt) Australian government collapsing resulting in it becoming like Somalia?

When someone refers to the government collapsing it usually means a dissolving of parliament and a new election held.

pretty much this.

We just can't have a full term of government can we?

[Arvug]

I'm aware of this, i'm Australian myself.

However the legal language still exists within our constitution, and pathways still exist for New Zealand to join the federation if they want to.

Edit: Yugosia is an alt account, i must of switched at some point

You are correct, New Zealand can if it wanted to still join as apart of Australia. But when it comes to regard to same-sex marriage (which New Zealand legalized in 2013) would it be repealed by the Australian parliament or would it be kept? I mean I was informed by Aussie friends of my online Garry's Mod that many Australian same-sex couples move to New Zealand so they can be married and recognized as married couples by the NZ government thus remaining in NZ.

i believe in some states same sex couples can have civil unions.

plus because of the Trans-Tasman travel arrangement Aussie and Kiwi citizens can move to other countries and work without visa's(with some stipulations)

[Southeastern Xiatao]

The Australian government won't collapse it just is going to change simply. I honestly doubt that the government of Australia would collapse.

Not to mention what do you mean by the Australian government collapsing over dual citizenship issue? Do you mean as in a change in government and politics? Or do you mean (which highly I doubt) Australian government collapsing resulting in it becoming like Somalia?

When someone refers to the government collapsing it usually means a dissolving of parliament and a new election held.

Well that surely isn't anything to worry about. I mean Hanson (that bitch, yes in my opinion she is a bitch) has literally no way in gaining majority in parliament no matter what. So with that said I can say that a new election wouldn't be a big deal.

Bear in mind I am American, I do know a lot about most of Australia's history and some of its politics. But when it comes to how it fucking works (like how a PM is elected) then I get confused.

(Popular vote exists in Australia so I assume that whoever has the most popular votes becomes the PM)

[Southeastern Xiatao]

You are correct, New Zealand can if it wanted to still join as apart of Australia. But when it comes to regard to same-sex marriage (which New Zealand legalized in 2013) would it be repealed by the Australian parliament or would it be kept? I mean I was informed by Aussie friends of my online Garry's Mod that many Australian same-sex couples move to New Zealand so they can be married and recognized as married couples by the NZ government thus remaining in NZ.

i believe in some states same sex couples can have civil unions.

Civil union is still very different than actual marriage. You still don't have many things like married couples have.

[Cedoria]

The Australian government won't collapse it just is going to change simply. I honestly doubt that the government of Australia would collapse.

Not to mention what do you mean by the Australian government collapsing over dual citizenship issue? Do you mean as in a change in government and politics? Or do you mean (which highly I doubt) Australian government collapsing resulting in it becoming like Somalia?

Obviously the latter, in Parliamentary terms 'government' refers too the Party or Coalition with the most seats in the lower house. I wasn't referring to the literal institution of government itself (Westminster parliamentary terms are confusing for those who don't live with them constantly I know),

[Southeastern Xiatao]

And just as something to remind us is that the 3rd PM of Australia, Chris Watson was born in Chile to a New Zealander mother and a German father (If I remember correctly I think his father was a German living in Chile, Chris Watson just didn't realize he was part German until later life). In other words Australia had prime ministers born outside Australia and the British Empire for that matter.

Though I do wonder how Chileans think about Chris Watson being born in Chile.

[Arvug]

When someone refers to the government collapsing it usually means a dissolving of parliament and a new election held.

Well that surely isn't anything to worry about. I mean Hanson (that bitch, yes in my opinion she is a bitch) has literally no way in gaining majority in parliament no matter what. So with that said I can say that a new election wouldn't be a big deal.

Bear in mind I am American, I do know a lot about most of Australia's history and some of its politics. But when it comes to how it fucking works (like how a PM is elected) then I get confused.

(Popular vote exists in Australia so I assume that whoever has the most popular votes becomes the PM)

Australia uses the preferential voting system.

In our electorate, we elect a representative

you have several canidates

• Canidate A: From the kill all babies party
• Canidate B: From the Save the babies party
• Canidate C: From the assholes party

If my order of preference was A as first, then B second, and then C last and A got the least votes overall, then the vote i put towards A goes to B.

How a PM is chosen is a bit weird, but the Australian people don't elect a PM, the political party or coalition in power do.

[Cedoria]

When someone refers to the government collapsing it usually means a dissolving of parliament and a new election held.

Well that surely isn't anything to worry about. I mean Hanson (that bitch, yes in my opinion she is a bitch) has literally no way in gaining majority in parliament no matter what. So with that said I can say that a new election wouldn't be a big deal.

Bear in mind I am American, I do know a lot about most of Australia's history and some of its politics. But when it comes to how it fucking works (like how a PM is elected) then I get confused.

(Popular vote exists in Australia so I assume that whoever has the most popular votes becomes the PM)

Nope.Constitutionally the PM doesn't exist. The party elects their leader, the party which wins a majority in the House of Reps gets too form government, and the leader of that party or Coalition then de facto becomes the PM. We don't vote for the PM directly at all, except as a representative of their local electorate for those who live in it.

[Southeastern Xiatao]

The Australian government won't collapse it just is going to change simply. I honestly doubt that the government of Australia would collapse.

Not to mention what do you mean by the Australian government collapsing over dual citizenship issue? Do you mean as in a change in government and politics? Or do you mean (which highly I doubt) Australian government collapsing resulting in it becoming like Somalia?

Obviously the latter, in Parliamentary terms 'government' refers too the Party or Coalition with the most seats in the lower house. I wasn't referring to the literal institution of government itself (Westminster parliamentary terms are confusing for those who don't live with them constantly I know),

[Cedoria]

And just as something to remind us is that the 3rd PM of Australia, Chris Watson was born in Chile to a New Zealander mother and a German father (If I remember correctly I think his father was a German living in Chile, Chris Watson just didn't realize he was part German until later life). In other words Australia had prime ministers born outside Australia and the British Empire for that matter.

Though I do wonder how Chileans think about Chris Watson being born in Chile.

Gillard and Abbott were both born overseas too, but birth and citizenship are not necessarily the same thing, as we know. The issue here has nothing to do with Joyce's place of birth (and for all those arguing about the silliness of the rule, it is LESS silly than the US requirement that exists I would argue, at least immigrants can be PM here, so long as they renounce dual citizenship).

[Southeastern Xiatao]

Well that surely isn't anything to worry about. I mean Hanson (that bitch, yes in my opinion she is a bitch) has literally no way in gaining majority in parliament no matter what. So with that said I can say that a new election wouldn't be a big deal.

Bear in mind I am American, I do know a lot about most of Australia's history and some of its politics. But when it comes to how it fucking works (like how a PM is elected) then I get confused.

(Popular vote exists in Australia so I assume that whoever has the most popular votes becomes the PM)

Nope.Constitutionally the PM doesn't exist. The party elects their leader, the party which wins a majority in the House of Reps gets too form government, and the leader of that party or Coalition then de facto becomes the PM. We don't vote for the PM directly at all, except as a representative of their local electorate for those who live in it.

Then in my opinion I would argue that Australians should have the power in who they wish to become PM. I mean sure I understand that the same way it works in UK, New Zealand, and Canada. But in my opinion I still think that the people should always have the say in elections.

[Southeastern Xiatao]

And just as something to remind us is that the 3rd PM of Australia, Chris Watson was born in Chile to a New Zealander mother and a German father (If I remember correctly I think his father was a German living in Chile, Chris Watson just didn't realize he was part German until later life). In other words Australia had prime ministers born outside Australia and the British Empire for that matter.

Though I do wonder how Chileans think about Chris Watson being born in Chile.

Gillard and Abbott were both born overseas too, but birth and citizenship are not necessarily the same thing, as we know. The issue here has nothing to do with Joyce's place of birth (and for all those arguing about the silliness of the rule, it is LESS silly than the US requirement that exists I would argue, at least immigrants can be PM here, so long as they renounce dual citizenship).

It basically the same issue in the US when it comes to wanting to become president. Ted Cruz during 2016 Presidential Election was often under question if he was an American natural born citizen or not. But he was born in Alberta, Canada to an American mother and a Cuban father. So in US it varies I think my country should change that where it allows anyone to become president if they are born to at least one American parent even if they are overseas.

Heck had Ted Cruz and his family stayed in Canada instead of going to US, he would be eligible in becoming PM of Canada if he gives up his American citizenship.

[San Lumen]

When someone refers to the government collapsing it usually means a dissolving of parliament and a new election held.

Well that surely isn't anything to worry about. I mean Hanson (that bitch, yes in my opinion she is a bitch) has literally no way in gaining majority in parliament no matter what. So with that said I can say that a new election wouldn't be a big deal.

Bear in mind I am American, I do know a lot about most of Australia's history and some of its politics. But when it comes to how it fucking works (like how a PM is elected) then I get confused.

(Popular vote exists in Australia so I assume that whoever has the most popular votes becomes the PM)

A prime minster is the leader of their party. Whichever party gets the most seats forms the government. its quite possible for a party to win the most seats but the party leader or the PM doesn't win their own seat.