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by Mike the Progressive » Mon May 07, 2018 9:04 am
by Free Arabian Nation » Mon May 07, 2018 9:54 am
Dogmeat wrote:Did the God of Communism raise this thread from the Grave?
by John1565 » Sat May 12, 2018 3:07 am
by Venetorria » Sat May 12, 2018 8:34 am
Neanderthaland wrote:Uinted Communist of Africa wrote:He did believe at one point or his morals wouldn't ally so closely to Christianity
He. Was. JEWISH. I don't know if he ever believed in a God or not, but if he had, it wouldn't have been the Christian one.
As for your claim that his "morals closely ally Christianity:" I just systematically demolished that argument.
At this point you are being willfully ignorant.
by Thanatttynia » Sat May 12, 2018 9:12 am
Venetorria wrote:Neanderthaland wrote:He. Was. JEWISH. I don't know if he ever believed in a God or not, but if he had, it wouldn't have been the Christian one.
As for your claim that his "morals closely ally Christianity:" I just systematically demolished that argument.
At this point you are being willfully ignorant.
You are the one being ignorant, he might be of Jewish origin, but his father became a Lutheran, and Marx himself was raised a Lutheran. In fact, some of his sayings border on anti-Semitism (plus others which have a high dose of ethnic chauvinism and bigotry).
The only parallel to be drawn between Communism and Abrahamic religions is moral absolutism. In the mainstream monotesitic faiths of the world we have a clear cut line between god and evil, with God, angels and heaven on one side, and the devil, demons, and hell on the other. Marx, while not so direct, tried to simplify the world, where he tried to present all capitalists, regardless of how decent, hardworking or overqualified, as evil, while any worker, be they lazy, wicked or worse, as good.
Then again, capitalism in those days was far from perfect, but people who follow his teachings to this day forget that modern capitalism is worlds apart from the one Marx used to criticize. While not so harsh in moral absolutism, modern followers of his still apply a black and white "exploiter vs expolited" view to things.
by Venetorria » Sat May 12, 2018 10:01 am
Thanatttynia wrote:Marx's criticisms of capitalism were inspired by the rampant abuses of it going on in 19th century Europe, but they fit as well today as they ever did. Exploitation is the basis of capitalism - without making a moral judgment on whether it's good or bad, it simply is. Workers don't get to keep 100% of what they produce, therefore they are being exploited.
Is modern capitalism really so far from what was around in Marx's day? In the West, sure, we've used socialist ideas to get to a 'nicer'/more presentable form of it (though the basic problems remain the same), but I'd suggest you try telling a six-year-old in Bangladesh making clothes for GAP or w/e that people in 19th century Europe had it way worse than them.
by Thanatttynia » Sat May 12, 2018 1:22 pm
Venetorria wrote:Thanatttynia wrote:Marx's criticisms of capitalism were inspired by the rampant abuses of it going on in 19th century Europe, but they fit as well today as they ever did. Exploitation is the basis of capitalism - without making a moral judgment on whether it's good or bad, it simply is. Workers don't get to keep 100% of what they produce, therefore they are being exploited.
Is modern capitalism really so far from what was around in Marx's day? In the West, sure, we've used socialist ideas to get to a 'nicer'/more presentable form of it (though the basic problems remain the same), but I'd suggest you try telling a six-year-old in Bangladesh making clothes for GAP or w/e that people in 19th century Europe had it way worse than them.
I wish to clarify that I am arguing in regards to Western capitalism and the standard of working there. Hopefully, as those other places develop, the problems they have will vanish.
Yet the workers enter the process without a risk on their part. For instance, even if the company would fail, the worker will not lose anything (aside the job of course), being in demand, the worker could find new employment quite quickly, where as the investor or owner would stand to lose parts of their own fortune, which they had previously injected into the business.
It is not the workers that pay for the workspace, machines, tools and other things used to do the job.
Another thing which is wastly different than it was in the times of Marx is the share of working sectors. The primary and secondary sectors dominated the job sphere, but today, it is no longer so.
It would be easily to calculate how much a miner or industry worker produce, but, how much does the teacher, the doctor, the manager, and such, produce?
Labor assosiation is performed on a voluntary basis, no one forces you to take or keep a job you are not happy with, if able to, you are free to find a better contract.
I will also address a major perk capitalism has over any other form, you can model your own company as you see fit (without infringing on your worker's, or the market's, rights and laws). You are free to make a company where you let workers "keep 100% of their labor". Structure your company as you see fit, but, and which is the best part of it, you are not able to force that model upon others.
by Uinted Communist of Africa » Wed May 23, 2018 6:38 am
by Sovaal » Wed May 23, 2018 6:50 am
Uinted Communist of Africa wrote:XD
who ever raised this thread had no life..
by Uinted Communist of Africa » Wed May 23, 2018 6:50 am
by Sovaal » Wed May 23, 2018 6:53 am
by Reikoku » Wed May 23, 2018 7:36 am
Uinted Communist of Africa wrote:Now this might sound like complete heresy but I personally think that Marx was extremely religious at one point and something happened to him which cause him to hate god (maybe a family death?)
Uinted Communist of Africa wrote:and when he published his manifesto he made sure some of it was dedicated to destroying god.
Uinted Communist of Africa wrote:why else would Marx's works look so similar to Christianity? ....it just all adds up.
by The Official United Nations » Tue May 29, 2018 6:41 am
by Uinted Communist of Africa » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:55 am
The Official United Nations wrote:As noted, Marx did draw on Christian thinkers like Hegel. That might be a matter of his Christian context.
However, that need not imply that he sought to 'destroy God.' Marx was atheistic, he was rarely keen to advocate conflict between spiritual beings. He wasn't even that keen to destroy religion, assuming that it would die out on its own. In his works, there was certainly little rush to promote some 'anti-God' agenda.
That said, works like Das Kapital often resemble economic or philosophical works rather than Christianity.
by Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft » Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:12 am
Uinted Communist of Africa wrote:(Image)
Now this might sound like complete heresy but I personally think that Marx was extremely religious at one point and something happened to him which cause him to hate god (maybe a family death?) and when he published his manifesto he made sure some of it was dedicated to destroying god. I'm not saying his whole purpose of the manifesto was to destroy god....I'm just saying that he knew his works would be respected so why not push a few hidden agendas under it? why else would Marx's works look so similar to Christianity? ....it just all adds up.
What do you guys think?
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