Charlottesville: Where Do We Go From Here?

[Napkiraly]

Ostro and Nap, what do you gain from defending this man who hit a crowd not once but twice and killed someone?

It's odd and kinda telling that you are willing to defend someone of murder. If he was acting in self defense, he also didn't have to turn around.

I'm not defending him. Personally I have yet to see ample evidence that he was being attacked or in such a manner to have a legitimate claim to fear for his life. As such I find the second-degree murder charge to be currently appropriate. I'm saying that in the event that it can be shown that he was being attacked and had reasonable fears for his life, then the charge of second-degree murder most likely wouldn't stick.

[Liriena]

How much?

You want the full list of socialists committing acts of terrorism and then starting civil wars and the numerous atrocities carried out by socialists in pursuit of their goals? I mean because that is a long list. We can start with the Red Terror (USSR), Red Terror (Spain), Cambodian Genocide, St Nedelya Church assault, the Great Terror, assassination of William McKinley, LA Times Bombing, Wall Street Bombing, assassination of Tsar Alexander II. That's a small piece of the pie.

Dominic Purcell did nothing wrong!

[Bannedbytomorrow]

Yes you do, deep down, you don't want to convince national socialists and white supremacists of your beliefs, you just want to get rid of them. It's a natural feeling. Things have been killing each other since the dawn of time, it's nothing to be ashamed of.

I'd very much rather we rehabilitated all racist scum, but if I see them intimidating others, invading college campuses and city streets, and harassing innocent people online, I have few qualms with someone who decides to deliver a good punch to their faces.

Rehabilitate is a nice way of saying "make it someone else's problem." You don't want to negotiate, you want to remove them. You don't want to debate them, you want to shut them up. Face it, everyone here wants another person here dead.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

I fully agree.

Everyone needs to calm down. This is just crazyness.

It's like something I saw earlier in the thread, nobody's trying to be a decent human anymore. I like you. You're a good kid.

Ostro and Nap, what do you gain from defending this man who hit a crowd not once but twice and killed someone?

It's odd and kinda telling that you are willing to defend someone of murder. If he was acting in self defense, he also didn't have to turn around.

They're probably bait but if not I'm dying to hear their explanations.

Thanks! Your a good guy too.
I don't think they are baiting.

Ostro and Nap, what do you gain from defending this man who hit a crowd not once but twice and killed someone?

It's odd and kinda telling that you are willing to defend someone of murder. If he was acting in self defense, he also didn't have to turn around.

If we didn't defend him it would be up to nazis to do it and they don't seem up to the job, so it wouldn't be a very good discussion. For another, i am disturbed by the progressive attempt to cast themselves as a moral side in this conflict. This was the eastern front in WW2, not a clash between heaven and hell.

Denying the progressives on this forum an opportunity to act like this is something fascists do rather than something political authoritarians and extremists do (Like many progressives) is also worthwhile since it undermines the whole with us or with them attitude that tends to be fostered otherwise.

No, hey guys, allies here, you're both terrible ideologies.

So, devil's advocate?

Also, it's hard to see the left in this as anything but victims in this attack.

The lady who died was just peacefully protesting unless any evidence in the court case says other wise.

[Napkiraly]

You want the full list of socialists committing acts of terrorism and then starting civil wars and the numerous atrocities carried out by socialists in pursuit of their goals? I mean because that is a long list. We can start with the Red Terror (USSR), Red Terror (Spain), Cambodian Genocide, St Nedelya Church assault, the Great Terror, assassination of William McKinley, LA Times Bombing, Wall Street Bombing, assassination of Tsar Alexander II. That's a small piece of the pie.

If we say advocating for socialism is violence, can we finally say advocating for capitalism is violence too?

You mean like leftists who have said that? "Capitalism is violence" etc etc.

[Liriena]

You want the full list of socialists committing acts of terrorism and then starting civil wars and the numerous atrocities carried out by socialists in pursuit of their goals? I mean because that is a long list. We can start with the Red Terror (USSR), Red Terror (Spain), Cambodian Genocide, St Nedelya Church assault, the Great Terror, assassination of William McKinley, LA Times Bombing, Wall Street Bombing, assassination of Tsar Alexander II. That's a small piece of the pie.

If we say advocating for socialism is violence, can we finally say advocating for capitalism is violence too?

Lordy, yes.

[Crazed Pirates]

You want the full list of socialists committing acts of terrorism and then starting civil wars and the numerous atrocities carried out by socialists in pursuit of their goals? I mean because that is a long list. We can start with the Red Terror (USSR), Red Terror (Spain), Cambodian Genocide, St Nedelya Church assault, the Great Terror, assassination of William McKinley, LA Times Bombing, Wall Street Bombing, assassination of Tsar Alexander II. That's a small piece of the pie.

If we say advocating for socialism is violence, can we finally say advocating for capitalism is violence too?

I somehow doubt socialists tried ruling most of the bloody planet and had a lower death toll while doing that.

[Torrocca]

If we say advocating for socialism is violence, can we finally say advocating for capitalism is violence too?

You mean like leftists who have said that? "Capitalism is violence" etc etc.

I mean, it's not like they're wrong about that considering capitalism inherently is a system built on exploitation.

[Nuevo Libera]

I'd very much rather we rehabilitated all racist scum, but if I see them intimidating others, invading college campuses and city streets, and harassing innocent people online, I have few qualms with someone who decides to deliver a good punch to their faces.

Rehabilitate is a nice way of saying "make it someone else's problem." You don't want to negotiate, you want to remove them. You don't want to debate them, you want to shut them up. Face it, everyone here wants another person here dead.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but everything he says you're going to change into a convoluted way of arguing he wants a removal of his enemy, right?


I find your lack of faith in humanity and our ability to have tolerance a little disheartening.

[Napkiraly]

Considering the amount of violence that has been done in the name of socialism, does that mean we can say advocating for socialism is violence?

Dude, you could say that about every single ideology. I mean, liberalism was founded on decapitations and tea-vandalism, monarchism gave us endless wars of succession, conservatism is the master of violently suppressing everything new and weird, and even Buddhism somehow manages to have a violent history of its own.

Indeed you could do that.

[Hakons]

You want the full list of socialists committing acts of terrorism and then starting civil wars and the numerous atrocities carried out by socialists in pursuit of their goals? I mean because that is a long list. We can start with the Red Terror (USSR), Red Terror (Spain), Cambodian Genocide, St Nedelya Church assault, the Great Terror, assassination of William McKinley, LA Times Bombing, Wall Street Bombing, assassination of Tsar Alexander II. That's a small piece of the pie.

If we say advocating for socialism is violence, can we finally say advocating for capitalism is violence too?

So any death in poor nations that probably don't have free markets is now the fault of capitalism?

[Ostroeuropa]

It's like something I saw earlier in the thread, nobody's trying to be a decent human anymore. I like you. You're a good kid.


They're probably bait but if not I'm dying to hear their explanations.

Thanks! Your a good guy too.
I don't think they are baiting.

If we didn't defend him it would be up to nazis to do it and they don't seem up to the job, so it wouldn't be a very good discussion. For another, i am disturbed by the progressive attempt to cast themselves as a moral side in this conflict. This was the eastern front in WW2, not a clash between heaven and hell.

Denying the progressives on this forum an opportunity to act like this is something fascists do rather than something political authoritarians and extremists do (Like many progressives) is also worthwhile since it undermines the whole with us or with them attitude that tends to be fostered otherwise.

No, hey guys, allies here, you're both terrible ideologies.

So, devil's advocate?

Also, it's hard to see the left in this as anything but victims in this attack.

The lady who died was just peacefully protesting unless any evidence in the court case says other wise.

The lady in question is almost certainly not at fault, even if the car was struck first by someone else.
But it's gone beyond a discussion on the individuals involved.

By attempting to cast this individuals actions as a condemnation of a group, the fascist protestors, it seems appropriate to bring up the actions of the counter-protestors collectively as a counter point.

Regardless of the murder charge, I don't think this qualifies as terrorism. It's an escalation of violence during a riot, and unless it's all terrorism, i don't see a rationale for singling this out.

[Bannedbytomorrow]

Rehabilitate is a nice way of saying "make it someone else's problem." You don't want to negotiate, you want to remove them. You don't want to debate them, you want to shut them up. Face it, everyone here wants another person here dead.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but everything he says you're going to change into a convoluted way of arguing he wants a removal of his enemy, right?


I find your lack of faith in humanity and our ability to have tolerance a little disheartening.

Boo fucking hoo.

[Napkiraly]

You mean like leftists who have said that? "Capitalism is violence" etc etc.

I mean, it's not like they're wrong about that considering capitalism inherently is a system built on exploitation.

So then what exactly is the opposition to saying advocating for socialism is violence?

[Hakons]

You mean like leftists who have said that? "Capitalism is violence" etc etc.

I mean, it's not like they're wrong about that considering capitalism inherently is a system built on exploitation.

Communism is built on genocide, so...

[Nuevo Libera]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but everything he says you're going to change into a convoluted way of arguing he wants a removal of his enemy, right?


I find your lack of faith in humanity and our ability to have tolerance a little disheartening.

Boo fucking hoo.

What's that supposed to mean? I don't quite understand.

[Zeinbrad]

Ostro and Nap, what do you gain from defending this man who hit a crowd not once but twice and killed someone?

It's odd and kinda telling that you are willing to defend someone of murder. If he was acting in self defense, he also didn't have to turn around.

If we didn't defend him it would be up to nazis to do it and they don't seem up to the job, so it wouldn't be a very good discussion. For another, i am disturbed by the progressive attempt to cast themselves as a moral side in this conflict. This was the eastern front in WW2, not a clash between heaven and hell.

Denying the progressives on this forum an opportunity to act like this is something fascists do rather than something political authoritarians and extremists do (Like many progressives) is also worthwhile since it undermines the whole with us or with them attitude that tends to be fostered otherwise.

No, hey guys, allies here, you're both terrible ideologies.

As yes, the Eastern front of this conflict with all.....one person dead and no one starving to death or being forced to charge into enemy tanks under the threat of death.

You are so eager to argue with people with opposing views you don't like that you are willing to defend a murderer? Really? That's your reasoning? Also, aren't you yourself trying to gain the morale high ground by 'showing these leftist that is man was ramming into a crowd twice and killed a women' also?

You really should reevaluate your priorities and self if you are willing to defend anyone as long as the progressives aren't doing it. For you are fostering the 'us vs them' attitude yourself.

[Zeinbrad]

Ostro and Nap, what do you gain from defending this man who hit a crowd not once but twice and killed someone?

It's odd and kinda telling that you are willing to defend someone of murder. If he was acting in self defense, he also didn't have to turn around.

I'm not defending him. Personally I have yet to see ample evidence that he was being attacked or in such a manner to have a legitimate claim to fear for his life. As such I find the second-degree murder charge to be currently appropriate. I'm saying that in the event that it can be shown that he was being attacked and had reasonable fears for his life, then the charge of second-degree murder most likely wouldn't stick.

Ah, I see.

[Torrocca]

If we say advocating for socialism is violence, can we finally say advocating for capitalism is violence too?

I somehow doubt socialists tried ruling most of the bloody planet and had a lower death toll while doing that.

The 100 million over 80 years socialism dominated is matched every five years by capitalistic policies.

[Liriena]

I'd very much rather we rehabilitated all racist scum, but if I see them intimidating others, invading college campuses and city streets, and harassing innocent people online, I have few qualms with someone who decides to deliver a good punch to their faces.

Rehabilitate is a nice way of saying "make it someone else's problem." You don't want to negotiate, you want to remove them. You don't want to debate them, you want to shut them up. Face it, everyone here wants another person here dead.

I don't want them dead. I want them to become decent human beings.

You are entirely wrong... save for one thing: I don't want to debate them, because there is nothing to debate. There is no debate to be had with Holocaust deniers, Confederate revisionists or genocide supporters. There is no debate to be had with people who think darker skin makes you "subhuman", that "Hitler did nothing wrong", or that "slavery was actually good". There is nothing to debate with someone who believes that "the International Jewry is conspiring against the white male" or that LGBT rights are the doom of Western civilization. None of those positions is even remotely legitimate or worthy of the pretense of legitimacy that a debate would grant them. Those ideas only deserve one thing: to be permanently suppressed. They have no place in humanity. And those who believe those ideas need to change or face exclusion.

[Torrocca]

I mean, it's not like they're wrong about that considering capitalism inherently is a system built on exploitation.

Communism is built on genocide, so...

The horseshoe theory of communists = nazis strikes again.

If we say advocating for socialism is violence, can we finally say advocating for capitalism is violence too?

So any death in poor nations that probably don't have free markets is now the fault of capitalism?

It certainly is, considering it's a problem that America alone - a capitalist nation - has the resources to easily solve.

[Crazed Pirates]

By attempting to cast this individuals actions as a condemnation of a group, the fascist protestors, it seems appropriate to bring up the actions of the counter-protestors collectively as a counter point.

The most appropriate counterpoint is bringing up actions of the police/ Seriously, funneling the protesters into the lines guys who want to see them dead, then shutting the rally because it vent "violent"? I'm not exactly a "know-it-all" guy, but this stuff? I saw anything similar only in Ukraine.

[Hakons]

I somehow doubt socialists tried ruling most of the bloody planet and had a lower death toll while doing that.

The 100 million over 80 years socialism dominated is matched every five years by capitalistic policies.

Those capitalist nations being? Those policies being? You can't blame the word's problems on capitalism. Deaths due to limited resources predate capitalism by millennia.

[Napkiraly]

I somehow doubt socialists tried ruling most of the bloody planet and had a lower death toll while doing that.

The 100 million over 80 years socialism dominated is matched every five years by capitalistic policies.

The same ones that are reducing poverty globally? Not mention, it's jumping the gun a bit. A lot of these countries haven't developed into advanced industrial capitalist societies yet therefore are not ready to have a proletarian revolution.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Thanks! Your a good guy too.
I don't think they are baiting.



So, devil's advocate?

Also, it's hard to see the left in this as anything but victims in this attack.

The lady who died was just peacefully protesting unless any evidence in the court case says other wise.

The lady in question is almost certainly not at fault, even if the car was struck first by someone else.
But it's gone beyond a discussion on the individuals involved.

By attempting to cast this individuals actions as a condemnation of a group, the fascist protestors, it seems appropriate to bring up the actions of the counter-protestors collectively as a counter point.

Regardless of the murder charge, I don't think this qualifies as terrorism. It's an escalation of violence during a riot, and unless it's all terrorism, i don't see a rationale for singling this out.

I mean, the group that the guy in the car was with didn't try to stop him, I think.

The thing about bring up the actions of the counter-protesters collectively as a counter point is that you must put that poor woman who died as part of them. Who where, until the car struck, protesting peacefully. At least the majority at the very least where a peacefully protesting until the car hit, but I'm not sure.

As for the Terrorism bit,

According to the definitions of Terrorism:


"a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims." (noun)

"unlawfully using violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims." (adjective)

What this is a politically motivated attack designed to cause terror in other people.


So, yes, it is a terrorist attack.