Charlottesville: Where Do We Go From Here?

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

I never said that it warranted death. Really, Christopher Columbus statues and The Confederate flag should all be put into Museums too.

I'm not making a mountain out of a mole hill, these events can be done at a later date, and they are not the most important things America needs to do right now.

Just that maybe do it sometime in the future.

I never said you did. Anywhere.

Then, why did you say "This didn't warrant the death of people"?


I don't understand.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I never said you did. Anywhere.

Then, why did you say "This didn't warrant the death of people"?


I don't understand.

I'm talking about what happened in Charlottesville, Derps.

[San Lumen]

I am not an American historian and cannot answer this question. I will leave it to the Americans to answer. But I'm fairly sure it is quite a few, considering that he led significant battle against America.

Allow me to answer that for you.

...Vladimir Lenin, who personally ordered the killing of local groups of class enemy hostages. Alexander Yakovlev, architect of perestroika and glasnost and later head of the Presidential Commission for the Victims of Political Repression, elaborates on this point, stating that "The truth is that in punitive operations Stalin did not think up anything that was not there under Lenin: executions, hostage taking, concentration camps, and all the rest." Historian Robert Gellately concurs, saying: "To put it another way, Stalin initiated very little that Lenin had not already introduced or previewed." Said Lenin to his colleagues in the Bolshevik government: "If we are not ready to shoot a saboteur and White Guardist, what sort of revolution is that?"

Anne Applebaum asserts that, "without exception, the Leninist belief in the one-party state was and is characteristic of every communist regime," and "the Bolshevik use of violence was repeated in every Communist revolution." (¹)

So I ask you again, why is it ok to display Lenin's body to the public but it's bad to have a statue of Lee displayed in public?

Lenin was political leader. Robert E. Lee was a traitor and should not be celebrated with a statue.

[Olerand]

I am not an American historian and cannot answer this question. I will leave it to the Americans to answer. But I'm fairly sure it is quite a few, considering that he led significant battle against America.

Allow me to answer that for you.

...Vladimir Lenin, who personally ordered the killing of local groups of class enemy hostages. Alexander Yakovlev, architect of perestroika and glasnost and later head of the Presidential Commission for the Victims of Political Repression, elaborates on this point, stating that "The truth is that in punitive operations Stalin did not think up anything that was not there under Lenin: executions, hostage taking, concentration camps, and all the rest." Historian Robert Gellately concurs, saying: "To put it another way, Stalin initiated very little that Lenin had not already introduced or previewed." Said Lenin to his colleagues in the Bolshevik government: "If we are not ready to shoot a saboteur and White Guardist, what sort of revolution is that?"

Anne Applebaum asserts that, "without exception, the Leninist belief in the one-party state was and is characteristic of every communist regime," and "the Bolshevik use of violence was repeated in every Communist revolution." (¹)

So I ask you again, why is it ok to display Lenin's body to the public but it's bad to have a statue of Lee displayed in public?

Again, it is not the fact that he killed hundreds, or thousands, or hundreds of thousands, or millions of Americans, but that he rose up against America, and shot at America, and raised his flag in rebellion.
That Lenin is memorialized in Russia is Russia's problem, but it is a fact that Lenin never rose up against Russia. He was never a Tatar nationalist who rose his flag in rebellion. To Russia, Lenin is no traitor.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Allow me to answer that for you.



So I ask you again, why is it ok to display Lenin's body to the public but it's bad to have a statue of Lee displayed in public?

Lenin was political leader. Robert E. Lee was a traitor and should not be celebrated with a statue.

Lenin ordered the deaths of hundreds of people during his tenure, he should not be celebrated either and yet, it seems it's ok to display his corpse.

[The East Marches II]

Allow me to answer that for you.



So I ask you again, why is it ok to display Lenin's body to the public but it's bad to have a statue of Lee displayed in public?

Lenin was political leader. Robert E. Lee was a traitor and should not be celebrated with a statue.

You cry treason over voter suppression and elections yet he is the man who lead a coup to prevent election results. Then murdered anybody who got in his way (million plus or minus a few hundred thousand). Pretty much the same.

[Vassenor]

Antofa is stirring shit in seattle if anyones interested btw.

Yes, yes, the other side is bad too so we're not allowed to talk about all this. We get it.

[Torrocca]

Allow me to answer that for you.



So I ask you again, why is it ok to display Lenin's body to the public but it's bad to have a statue of Lee displayed in public?

Lenin was political leader. Robert E. Lee was a traitor and should not be celebrated with a statue.

Yeah, basically this. How come Germany can come along just fine and dandy without having statues that glorify Hitler and the Nazi leadership, but half of America has a collective, pants-shitting meltdown because a statue that celebrates a slave-owning traitor of America is put into consideration for removal?

[Olerand]

I am not an American historian and cannot answer this question. I will leave it to the Americans to answer. But I'm fairly sure it is quite a few, considering that he led significant battle against America.

He did a pretty good job all things considered. He has earned a statue as much as the next. At least more than Grant :^)

Grant being the one who became president? He has no statues? Or he did not kill enough Americans?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Allow me to answer that for you.



So I ask you again, why is it ok to display Lenin's body to the public but it's bad to have a statue of Lee displayed in public?

Again, it is not the fact that he killed hundreds, or thousands, or hundreds of thousands, or millions of Americans, but that he rose up against America, and shot at America, and raised his flag in rebellion.
That Lenin is memorialized in Russia is Russia's problem, but it is a fact that Lenin never rose up against Russia. He was never a Tatar nationalist who rose his flag in rebellion. To Russia, Lenin is no traitor.

It's the same thing, really. Lenin, much like Lee, rose against the establishment and ordered the deaths of many. Much like Lee, who wanted to maintain slavery. So why is it ok to display Lenin's body but it's bad to keep a statue of Lee in public?

[War Gears]

As usual, Fascists and Antifa have to drag their petty little fights out into the public's eye in place of the more important situation of people trying to remove a statue of one of Virginia's most loyal sons.

>Fascists are the Fascists
>Antifascists are the Fascists
Why not both?

One group doesn't drive cars into crowds....

Nazi scum like this have a lot in common with Islamist terrorists they say they hate so much.

You're right, Antifa tend to like to send bombs to people instead.

Why is it when Antifa engage in violence, we tend to hear "bash the fash!" but when Neo Nazis retaliate, it's suddenly all appeals to sentiment?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Lenin was political leader. Robert E. Lee was a traitor and should not be celebrated with a statue.

You cry treason over voter suppression and elections yet he is the man who lead a coup to prevent election results. Then murdered anybody who got in his way (million plus or minus a few hundred thousand). Pretty much the same.

Thank you, Marches. Precisely.

[The East Marches II]

He did a pretty good job all things considered. He has earned a statue as much as the next. At least more than Grant :^)

Grant being the one who became president? He has no statues? Or he did not kill enough Americans?

Grant killed too many Americans, that's why he doesn't get as many statues.

*cough* also corrupt presidency so we buried him

My own area, each town has a memorial to the dead of the civil war. It's a cultural resentment. He didn't get statues because he was a perceived butcher.

[Genivaria]

Lenin was political leader. Robert E. Lee was a traitor and should not be celebrated with a statue.

Yeah, basically this. How come Germany can come along just fine and dandy without having statues that glorify Hitler and the Nazi leadership, but half of America has a collective, pants-shitting meltdown because a statue that celebrates a slave-owning traitor of America is put into consideration for removal?

Even though the American Civil War cost more American lives than every war from then till WW2 combined.

[Zeinbrad]

I assume the march went the exact opposite way they wanted it too?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I assume the march went the exact opposite way they wanted it too?

There's one death reported and several injured.

[Torrocca]

Yeah, basically this. How come Germany can come along just fine and dandy without having statues that glorify Hitler and the Nazi leadership, but half of America has a collective, pants-shitting meltdown because a statue that celebrates a slave-owning traitor of America is put into consideration for removal?

Even though the American Civil War cost more American lives than every war from then till WW2 combined.

And yet the ones that fight against the removal of a traitor's statue call themselves patriots, ignoring the American blood shed to put an end to such treachery.

[Proctopeo]

He did a pretty good job all things considered. He has earned a statue as much as the next. At least more than Grant :^)

Grant being the one who became president? He has no statues? Or he did not kill enough Americans?

He's also not that popular in hindsight. At least he's above the guy who died a month in.

[Olerand]

Again, it is not the fact that he killed hundreds, or thousands, or hundreds of thousands, or millions of Americans, but that he rose up against America, and shot at America, and raised his flag in rebellion.
That Lenin is memorialized in Russia is Russia's problem, but it is a fact that Lenin never rose up against Russia. He was never a Tatar nationalist who rose his flag in rebellion. To Russia, Lenin is no traitor.

It's the same thing, really. Lenin, much like Lee, rose against the establishment and ordered the deaths of many. Much like Lee, who wanted to maintain slavery. So why is it ok to display Lenin's body but it's bad to keep a statue of Lee in public?

The establishment being the Imperial regime. Robespierre killed many, and rose up against the Monarchy, but he is not a traitor to this nation, as we are no longer the Kingdom. We are a Republic, that Robespierre himself had a hand in creating.

If Russia were an Empire, Lenin would be a traitor. It is not, and he is not. Had the Confederacy continued to exist, Lee would not be a traitor. It does not, and he is.

Grant being the one who became president? He has no statues? Or he did not kill enough Americans?

Grant killed too many Americans, that's why he doesn't get as many statues.

*cough* also corrupt presidency so we buried him

My own area, each town has a memorial to the dead of the civil war. It's a cultural resentment. He didn't get statues because he was a perceived butcher.

Grant killed Americans? Through incompetence or? Did he not fight on the American side?

Also, this all ends today right? These people have jobs to go back to, no?

[Vassenor]

You're right, Antifa tend to like to send bombs to people instead.

Well that sounds like a thing you can source.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

It's the same thing, really. Lenin, much like Lee, rose against the establishment and ordered the deaths of many. Much like Lee, who wanted to maintain slavery. So why is it ok to display Lenin's body but it's bad to keep a statue of Lee in public?

The establishment being the Imperial regime. Robespierre killed many, and rose up against the Monarchy, but he is not a traitor to this nation, as we are no longer the Kingdom. We are a Republic, that Robespierre himself had a hand in creating.

If Russia were an Empire, Lenin would be a traitor. It is not, and he is not. Had the Confederacy continued to exist, Lee would not be a traitor. It does not, and he is.

Comparison wise, it's the exact same thing. Lee ordered the deaths of many, so did Lenin. And yet to you, the displaying of a butcher like that is ok but not Lee's statue. I detect a huge disconnect here.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Then, why did you say "This didn't warrant the death of people"?


I don't understand.

I'm talking about what happened in Charlottesville, Derps.

Oh. I was confused.

In that case, yes, a statue does not warrant the death of people.

[Ostroeuropa]

It's the same thing, really. Lenin, much like Lee, rose against the establishment and ordered the deaths of many. Much like Lee, who wanted to maintain slavery. So why is it ok to display Lenin's body but it's bad to keep a statue of Lee in public?

The establishment being the Imperial regime. Robespierre killed many, and rose up against the Monarchy, but he is not a traitor to this nation, as we are no longer the Kingdom. We are a Republic, that Robespierre himself had a hand in creating.

If Russia were an Empire, Lenin would be a traitor. It is not, and he is not. Had the Confederacy continued to exist, Lee would not be a traitor. It does not, and he is.

I wouldn't call the confederates traitors tbh, unless they came from union states. Lee is an example of a traitor.

They were rebels. They didn't seek to sell out the union to a foreign power, only to achieve independence (for dubious reasons.), and I don't think that qualifies as treachery personally.

[Olerand]

The establishment being the Imperial regime. Robespierre killed many, and rose up against the Monarchy, but he is not a traitor to this nation, as we are no longer the Kingdom. We are a Republic, that Robespierre himself had a hand in creating.

If Russia were an Empire, Lenin would be a traitor. It is not, and he is not. Had the Confederacy continued to exist, Lee would not be a traitor. It does not, and he is.

Comparison wise, it's the exact same thing. Lee ordered the deaths of many, so did Lenin. And yet to you, the displaying of a butcher like that is ok but not Lee's statue. I detect a huge disconnect here.

Again, it's not a comparison of who killed who and how many. Most great leaders in history were responsible for massive slaughters, sometimes of their enemies, and sometimes of their own countrymen.

It is a fact that Lee is a traitor to the United States. Not that he was particularly bloodthirsty, or otherwise, but that he was a traitor.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I'm talking about what happened in Charlottesville, Derps.

Oh. I was confused.

In that case, yes, a statue does not warrant the death of people.

Pretty much.

I want to add that your country should be focusing in other more important things than statuary too. Sure, I get it, Lee's statue represents something rather negative. But it happened. If you do want to remove it, this is not the moment, as you well said.