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Nonprofit pays addicts for sterilization/l. term birth ctrl.

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Hurdergaryp
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Postby Hurdergaryp » Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:32 am

Great Nepal wrote:
Vassenor wrote:Or we could just, you know, not do eugenics. Leave the Natural in Natural Selection and stop trying to play God.

"Playing god!" opposition is equally silly regardless of who does it.

Only amateurs try to play god. Dedicated biotechnicians will do their best to upgrade and improve the flawed human design, making them surpass the mythological creator in every way.

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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:59 am

Hurdergaryp wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:"Playing god!" opposition is equally silly regardless of who does it.

Only amateurs try to play god. Dedicated biotechnicians will do their best to upgrade and improve the flawed human design, making them surpass the mythological creator in every way.

The Rapture of the Nerds.
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Sovaal
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Postby Sovaal » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:01 am

Bakery Hill wrote:
Hurdergaryp wrote:Only amateurs try to play god. Dedicated biotechnicians will do their best to upgrade and improve the flawed human design, making them surpass the mythological creator in every way.

The Rapture of the Nerds.

Where's my laser vision?

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:47 am

Ifreann wrote:So what happens when people want to reverse their sterilisation?

So, I guess the answer is nothing.


Bakery Hill wrote:She thinks drug addicts should be treated like animals. She's the scum of the Earth.

"We don’t allow dogs to breed. We spay them. We neuter them. We try to keep them from having unwanted puppies, and yet these women are literally having litters of children. Well, you know my son that goes to Stanford said ‘mom, please don’t ever say that again, but it’s the truth, they don’t just have one and two babies, they have litters."

At least she's doing something? :unsure:
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It’s likely that one or two of you who’ll listen to this enjoy the liberal administration of a social lubricant in it’s many wonderful forms. I can tell by the head on ya. A drop o’ Buckfast, a bump a’ Marvyn K, a cup o’ psilocybin scald, an opium suppository or whatever you’re havin’ yourself. And we’re right there with ya, rubbin’ in the commotion lotion and chasing blue ghosts. Fuck it, d’ya know what I mean?

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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:12 am

The sterilization I don't think is a problem tbh, it's the paying people to get sterilized and specifically targeting drug addicts is my concern.

This seems like something that should be offered freely.
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Gauthier
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Postby Gauthier » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:47 am

I notice that pro-lifers that would throw a fit over contraceptive distribution are distinctly cricket chirp silent on sterilization.
Crimes committed by Muslims will be a pan-Islamic plot and proof of Islam's inherent evil. On the other hand crimes committed by non-Muslims will merely be the acts of loners who do not represent their belief system at all.
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Taostic Aesthetics
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Postby Taostic Aesthetics » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:58 am

It's a contract between two people, voluntarily, and I fail to see any objections against it.

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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:11 am

Bombadil wrote:Frankly I think it's awful to give an addict $300 in return for neutering them, of course an addict will take it. Why not get a kidney while you're at it.. let them all go to Candy Mountain..

It will clean up the gene pool without resorting to coercion to do so. What's the problem?


AiliailiA wrote:That's fucked. Sterilization is essentially permanent: reversal operations, besides being expensive, usually fail. Just because you're a drug addict now, by the loose definition "need money for drugs that bad", doesn't mean you'll always be a drug addict and therefore not capable of raising kids properly.

Just because you're an abuser once, doesn't mean you'll always be an abuser.

We have to draw the line somewhere.

Not everyone gets to be a parent. Save that job for people who are better at it.


Gauthier wrote:I notice that pro-lifers that would throw a fit over contraceptive distribution are distinctly cricket chirp silent on sterilization.

If you impregnated a woman after having a vasectomy, you would be eligible to sue the doctor who screwed it up for your child support payments. If you impregnated a woman after she was on contraceptives, you're the one who's on the hook for child support.

So it's not like it's hypocrisy here.
Last edited by LimaUniformNovemberAlpha on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:41 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:46 am

Gauthier wrote:I notice that pro-lifers that would throw a fit over contraceptive distribution are distinctly cricket chirp silent on sterilization.

Because in their eyes those are two fundamentally different things. Also many of the American variety hate the "undeserving poor".

But instead we have many self described liberals and libertarians proclaiming "at least she's doing something".
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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:59 pm

Also, why doesn't Gauthier specify what he or she thinks it's about?
Iridencia wrote:Inept people always decry pragmatic choices as "cowardly" because they know they're not smart enough to play on that level.

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Gauthier
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Postby Gauthier » Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:04 pm

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:Also, why doesn't Gauthier specify what he or she thinks it's about?

Probably because people assume sterilization will be mostly focused on the underclass, which pro-lifers generally don't give a shit about unless they're trying to get an abortion. I think it's a general fetus fetish.
Crimes committed by Muslims will be a pan-Islamic plot and proof of Islam's inherent evil. On the other hand crimes committed by non-Muslims will merely be the acts of loners who do not represent their belief system at all.
The probability of one's participation in homosexual acts is directly proportional to one's public disdain and disgust for homosexuals.
If a political figure makes an accusation of wrongdoing without evidence, odds are probable that the accuser or an associate thereof has in fact committed the very same act, possibly to a worse degree.
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Hurdergaryp
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Postby Hurdergaryp » Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:16 pm

Gauthier wrote:
LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:Also, why doesn't Gauthier specify what he or she thinks it's about?

Probably because people assume sterilization will be mostly focused on the underclass, which pro-lifers generally don't give a shit about unless they're trying to get an abortion. I think it's a general fetus fetish.

Fetus Fetish would be a pretty good band name.

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DnalweN acilbupeR
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Postby DnalweN acilbupeR » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:19 pm

Bombadil wrote:What we should be doing is giving more drugs to these people and ensuring they breed to drive immunity to addiction..

Male rats exposed to cocaine may pass epigenetic changes on to their male offspring, thereby altering the next generation's response to the drug. Researchers found that male offspring in particular responded much less to the drug's influence

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 131439.htm


lolwut.

tolerance = / = " immunity "
The Emerald Dawn wrote:I award you no points, and have sent people to make sure your parents refrain from further breeding.
Lyttenburgh wrote:all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"
Lyttenburgh wrote:Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.

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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:21 pm

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:
Bombadil wrote:Frankly I think it's awful to give an addict $300 in return for neutering them, of course an addict will take it. Why not get a kidney while you're at it.. let them all go to Candy Mountain..

It will clean up the gene pool without resorting to coercion to do so. What's the problem?

Somewhere a biologist is crying.
General Sherman did nothing wrong, fact.
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DnalweN acilbupeR
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Postby DnalweN acilbupeR » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:26 pm

Bakery Hill wrote:She thinks drug addicts should be treated like animals. She's the scum of the Earth.

"We don’t allow dogs to breed. We spay them. We neuter them. We try to keep them from having unwanted puppies, and yet these women are literally having litters of children. Well, you know my son that goes to Stanford said ‘mom, please don’t ever say that again, but it’s the truth, they don’t just have one and two babies, they have litters."


Said son is if I'm not mistaken one of the 4 children she adopted from the same drug addicted mother.

I hold the view that obsessing over whether or not your children are biologically yours is dumb and primitive. There are plenty of children out there who need homes, which this woman has proven by adopting 4 of them, and I think we can all agree they're better off with an actual family rather than being cared for by the state.

I might not agree with the rest of the statement but what she does is still right. Allegedly (and I don't have any reliable source for this) a large majority of her "clients" choose the IUD option over sterilization, and they get the same $300 only in smaller increments.

If she was really this evil person out to enforce : eugenics : to get rid of black people, drug addicts or the poor or whatever, she wouldn't have offered alternatives to sterilization in the first place, or at least wouldn't have offered the same amount of money.

In any case she is doing more than you probably are so maybe you should look at yourself before calling her the "scum of the earth".

EDIT: As another poster has noted, whining about how this is a "band-aid" instead of a long-term or more comprehensive solution to the problems related to drug addiction, is dumb. This charity is not the US government.
Last edited by DnalweN acilbupeR on Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Emerald Dawn wrote:I award you no points, and have sent people to make sure your parents refrain from further breeding.
Lyttenburgh wrote:all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"
Lyttenburgh wrote:Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.

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Victores
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Postby Victores » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:31 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Victores wrote:This is how Eugenics is supposed to be done, not with mass murder, but with financial incentives.


Or we could just, you know, not do eugenics. Leave the Natural in Natural Selection and stop trying to play God.

No, wel tell nature how to work. Not the other way around. We can literally wipe out any species we want.
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DnalweN acilbupeR
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Postby DnalweN acilbupeR » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:32 pm

Caracasus wrote:Ahh yes, the old crack baby myth and associated moralising raising its head again. I notice that a lot of people stopped giving a shit about that when it turned out that a lot of the damage done to children born of addicts was a) more to do with the material conditions they were raised in and b) about the same as tobacco and not as severe as alcohol.


"myth"

1. let's legitimize crackhead pregnant moms' habits by "it's not worse than tobacco" as if smoking while pregnant was OK in the first place.

2. this charity offers its services to drug addicts and alcoholics

3. even if you were right (which we cannot determine b/c of your lack of sources to back your claims other than "i say so") crack isn't THE only drug.

Let's just ignore for example children born with opioid addiction and how incredibly costly weaning them off is:

"Opponents of the organization often argue that it should instead focus on addiction treatment or lobbying for government health care.[5] The organization responds by saying that they do not have the resources to solve "national problems of poverty, housing, nutrition, education and rehabilitation services. Those resources we do have are spent to prevent a problem for $300 rather than paying millions after it happens in cost to care for a potentially damaged child."[4] Weaning one opioid-addicted baby off drugs costs about $500,000.[8]\"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Prevention

note that the part about the cost is not part of the quote of what the woman/charity stated.
Last edited by DnalweN acilbupeR on Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The Emerald Dawn wrote:I award you no points, and have sent people to make sure your parents refrain from further breeding.
Lyttenburgh wrote:all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"
Lyttenburgh wrote:Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.

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DnalweN acilbupeR
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Postby DnalweN acilbupeR » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:39 pm

Mattopilos II wrote:
Free Maronites wrote:If more people stopped complaining about how this is a short term solution, or that Barbara Harris is some sort of monster, and actually tried to help reach a long term solution, maybe we'll all live in a better world.

Maybe.


Sounds handwavy and besides the point but okay.
I love how people think "At least she is doing something!" as a defense. It isn't. If I go out and shoot homeless people to "help them", at least I am doing something, yes?


This is an asinine analogy.

The would-be beneficiary of this charity is free to take the offer or leave it.

They have the option of sterilization as well as inserting a non-permanent long term contraception device known as an IUD.

Consent is established entirely between the beneficiary of the charity and the doctor performing the procedure, and not with the charity. The charity has no say in whether the addicted person is able to consent or not.

The amount of money paid for going through with either the sterilization or IUD insertion is the same, the only difference is that in the latter's case the amount is paid in smaller installments.
Last edited by DnalweN acilbupeR on Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Emerald Dawn wrote:I award you no points, and have sent people to make sure your parents refrain from further breeding.
Lyttenburgh wrote:all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"
Lyttenburgh wrote:Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.

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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:41 pm

Hurdergaryp wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:"Playing god!" opposition is equally silly regardless of who does it.

Only amateurs try to play god. Dedicated biotechnicians will do their best to upgrade and improve the flawed human design, making them surpass the mythological creator in every way.

Yeah like Genemodding in Stellaris.
Gotta brain-staple them xeno slaves so they can't get uppity. :twisted:
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DnalweN acilbupeR
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Postby DnalweN acilbupeR » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:46 pm

Gauthier wrote:I notice that pro-lifers that would throw a fit over contraceptive distribution are distinctly cricket chirp silent on sterilization.


Gosh do we love strawmen around here do we, and where/who exactly are these 'pro-lifers' you're informing us about?
The Emerald Dawn wrote:I award you no points, and have sent people to make sure your parents refrain from further breeding.
Lyttenburgh wrote:all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"
Lyttenburgh wrote:Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:49 pm

DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:: eugenics :

What are the colons meant to convey here?
Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Banter For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Snark That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Sarcasm.
It be feelin' like the life that I’m livin' man out of control
Like every day I’m in a fight for my soul


It’s likely that one or two of you who’ll listen to this enjoy the liberal administration of a social lubricant in it’s many wonderful forms. I can tell by the head on ya. A drop o’ Buckfast, a bump a’ Marvyn K, a cup o’ psilocybin scald, an opium suppository or whatever you’re havin’ yourself. And we’re right there with ya, rubbin’ in the commotion lotion and chasing blue ghosts. Fuck it, d’ya know what I mean?

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Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:55 pm

Ifreann wrote:
DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:: eugenics :

What are the colons meant to convey here?

In my experience Colons usually convey shit
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DnalweN acilbupeR
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Postby DnalweN acilbupeR » Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:12 pm

Ifreann wrote:
DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:: eugenics :

What are the colons meant to convey here?


I'm secretly an alt-right antijew bowing to our Lord and Savior, Kek and those were used as substitutes for triple parantheses, you caught me red-handed :roll:

They're used to symbolize a stereotype, like for example how one might respond to a picture containing imagery perceived as stereotypically American with " 'merica.jpg " . The colons are like the .jpg . Used either in an ironic fashion or to actually show you agree with the stereotype, although I haven't seen them used too much.

In this particular instance it was meant to ridicule people so easily equating sterilization with eugenics.
The Emerald Dawn wrote:I award you no points, and have sent people to make sure your parents refrain from further breeding.
Lyttenburgh wrote:all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"
Lyttenburgh wrote:Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.

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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:43 pm

DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:She thinks drug addicts should be treated like animals. She's the scum of the Earth.



Said son is if I'm not mistaken one of the 4 children she adopted from the same drug addicted mother.

I hold the view that obsessing over whether or not your children are biologically yours is dumb and primitive. There are plenty of children out there who need homes, which this woman has proven by adopting 4 of them, and I think we can all agree they're better off with an actual family rather than being cared for by the state.

I might not agree with the rest of the statement but what she does is still right. Allegedly (and I don't have any reliable source for this) a large majority of her "clients" choose the IUD option over sterilization, and they get the same $300 only in smaller increments.

If she was really this evil person out to enforce : eugenics : to get rid of black people, drug addicts or the poor or whatever, she wouldn't have offered alternatives to sterilization in the first place, or at least wouldn't have offered the same amount of money.

In any case she is doing more than you probably are so maybe you should look at yourself before calling her the "scum of the earth".

EDIT: As another poster has noted, whining about how this is a "band-aid" instead of a long-term or more comprehensive solution to the problems related to drug addiction, is dumb. This charity is not the US government.

She's bribing vulnerable people to submit to sterilisation. Rather than address the problem properly, we're suppose to treat people like dogs. You can incoherently ramble all you like but this shit is fucked. It's yet another reminder that it's stupid to think the only people we're supposed to worry about is the Trumpists.
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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:55 pm

DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:
Ifreann wrote:What are the colons meant to convey here?


I'm secretly an alt-right antijew bowing to our Lord and Savior, Kek and those were used as substitutes for triple parantheses, you caught me red-handed :roll:

They're used to symbolize a stereotype, like for example how one might respond to a picture containing imagery perceived as stereotypically American with " 'merica.jpg " . The colons are like the .jpg . Used either in an ironic fashion or to actually show you agree with the stereotype, although I haven't seen them used too much.

In this particular instance it was meant to ridicule people so easily equating sterilization with eugenics.

I wonder why?
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