Nonprofit pays addicts for sterilization/l. term birth ctrl.

[Great Nepal]

Sterilizing drug and alcohol addicts is a short term "solution" for a long term problem that isn't even always generational. But fuck me, proper strategies to get people off of drugs is too much, just castrate the bastards amirite?

Yes I'm sure a charity has infinite resources to carry out long term intervention and provide rehabilitation and post-rehab help with getting them stable jobs etc. Out of curiosity, how much have you contributed towards ensuring charity has access to infinite funds?
Perfect is enemy of good etc.

[Bombadil]

What we should be doing is giving more drugs to these people and ensuring they breed to drive immunity to addiction..

Male rats exposed to cocaine may pass epigenetic changes on to their male offspring, thereby altering the next generation's response to the drug. Researchers found that male offspring in particular responded much less to the drug's influence

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 131439.htm

[Ethel mermania]

Except it's her money, she gets to do what she wants with it.

Doesn't mean she's still not a cunt.

She is not a cunt, she is getting off her ass and trying to do something about a serious problem. I may disagree with what she is doing, but she is trying, using her own time and money. That is More than I can say for most of the people out there who just whine about shit and do nothing.

[Vassenor]

Simply suffering such degenerates to live is already an excessive kindness in my eyes, let alone paying them to get fixed rather than just fixing them by force, but since our society is unfortunately too spineless to rid itself of even it's most worthless members, I suppose anything that will remove their sort from the genepool is a commendable idea.

I say this as someone who's had the questionable privilege of growing up next door to a drug den and two floors above a wife-beating drunkard frequented by his buddies from the lowest-class dive bar just across the yard, with all the accompanying joys ranging from the stairs constantly reeking of piss, puke and shit to OD cases and drug-related murders with plenty of drunken brawls and domestic quarrels involving liberal amounts of wife-beating in between. With these childhood memories and even more adult experiences I can say with absolute conviction that keeping such people from breeding is doing humanity a great favour.

Or maybe it's because capital punishment isn't the deterrent everyone seems to think it is. It's not society being squeamish, it's the fact that killing people who commit crimes doesn't stop other people committing the same crime.

Sources:

Cohen-Cole E, Durlauf S, Fagan J and Nagin D (2009) Model Uncertainty and the Deterrent Effect of Capital Punishment in American Law and Economics Review Vol 11(2) pp.335-369

[Mattopilos II]

Doesn't mean she's still not a cunt.

She is not a cunt, she is getting off her ass and trying to do something about a serious problem. I may disagree with what she is doing, but she is trying, using her own time and money. That is More than I can say for most of the people out there who just whine about shit and do nothing.

If you think this is the best solution, you are a little disturbed. You can't think of anything else one could do, that would have more outreach than sterilization? Anything?

[Napkiraly]

Sterilizing drug and alcohol addicts is a short term "solution" for a long term problem that isn't even always generational. But fuck me, proper strategies to get people off of drugs is too much, just castrate the bastards amirite?

Yes I'm sure a charity has infinite resources to carry out long term intervention and provide rehabilitation and post-rehab help with getting them stable jobs etc. Out of curiosity, how much have you contributed towards ensuring charity has access to infinite funds?
Perfect is enemy of good etc.

Yes, this is exactly what I was saying. 10/10 reading comprehension. I also like how there aren't any other charities that manage to work to end drug addiction without sterilizing people.

Doesn't mean she's still not a cunt.

She is not a cunt, she is getting off her ass and trying to do something about a serious problem. I may disagree with what she is doing, but she is trying, using her own time and money. That is More than I can say for most of the people out there who just whine about shit and do nothing.

Nah yeah, she's a cunt. Just because she's "trying to do something" doesn't make her less of a cunt considering how she's going about doing it.

[Ethel mermania]

She is not a cunt, she is getting off her ass and trying to do something about a serious problem. I may disagree with what she is doing, but she is trying, using her own time and money. That is More than I can say for most of the people out there who just whine about shit and do nothing.

If you think this is the best solution, you are a little disturbed. You can't think of anything else one could do, that would have more outreach than sterilization? Anything?

What part of "I may disagree with what she is doing..." didn't you understand?

Insults and illiteracy all in one post.

[Mattopilos II]

If you think this is the best solution, you are a little disturbed. You can't think of anything else one could do, that would have more outreach than sterilization? Anything?

What part of "I may disagree with what she is doing..." didn't you understand?

Insults and illiteracy all in one post.

All I see is "she isn't a cunt". That has enough criticism for a small novel right there.

[Ethel mermania]

What part of "I may disagree with what she is doing..." didn't you understand?

Insults and illiteracy all in one post.

All I see is "she isn't a cunt". That has enough criticism for a small novel right there.

That is all you saw? Stick to the small novel, a large one may be too much.

[Bakery Hill]

She thinks drug addicts should be treated like animals. She's the scum of the Earth.

"We don’t allow dogs to breed. We spay them. We neuter them. We try to keep them from having unwanted puppies, and yet these women are literally having litters of children. Well, you know my son that goes to Stanford said ‘mom, please don’t ever say that again, but it’s the truth, they don’t just have one and two babies, they have litters."

[Mattopilos II]

All I see is "she isn't a cunt". That has enough criticism for a small novel right there.

That is all you saw? Stick to the small novel, a large one may be too much.

I also saw the "At least she is trying..."
So what? Trying means fuck all if the action they are doing is harmful.

[Caracasus]

Ahh yes, the old crack baby myth and associated moralising raising its head again. I notice that a lot of people stopped giving a shit about that when it turned out that a lot of the damage done to children born of addicts was a) more to do with the material conditions they were raised in and b) about the same as tobacco and not as severe as alcohol.

[Free Maronites]

If more people stopped complaining about how this is a short term solution, or that Barbara Harris is some sort of monster, and actually tried to help reach a long term solution, maybe we'll all live in a better world.

Maybe.

[Mattopilos II]

If more people stopped complaining about how this is a short term solution, or that Barbara Harris is some sort of monster, and actually tried to help reach a long term solution, maybe we'll all live in a better world.

Maybe.

Sounds handwavy and besides the point but okay.
I love how people think "At least she is doing something!" as a defense. It isn't. If I go out and shoot homeless people to "help them", at least I am doing something, yes?

[Hurdergaryp]

If more people stopped complaining about how this is a short term solution, or that Barbara Harris is some sort of monster, and actually tried to help reach a long term solution, maybe we'll all live in a better world.

Maybe.

Sounds handwavy and besides the point but okay.
I love how people think "At least she is doing something!" as a defense. It isn't. If I go out and shoot homeless people to "help them", at least I am doing something, yes?

Not the same thing. Not the same thing at all.

[Napkiraly]

Sounds handwavy and besides the point but okay.
I love how people think "At least she is doing something!" as a defense. It isn't. If I go out and shoot homeless people to "help them", at least I am doing something, yes?

Not the same thing. Not the same thing at all.

You're right. Maybe we should start sterilizing the homeless. Then after that's done, we can start sterilizing the poor in general.

[Mattopilos II]

Sounds handwavy and besides the point but okay.
I love how people think "At least she is doing something!" as a defense. It isn't. If I go out and shoot homeless people to "help them", at least I am doing something, yes?

Not the same thing. Not the same thing at all.

Perfect response. Consider myself defeated.

[Bakery Hill]

Not the same thing. Not the same thing at all.

You're right. Maybe we should start sterilizing the homeless. Then after that's done, we can start sterilizing the poor in general.

Yes, you know eugenics got such a bad name after all that unpleasantness seventy years ago. Thanks to people like Barb we can start to bring it back. God bless you Barbara.

[Great Nepal]

Yes I'm sure a charity has infinite resources to carry out long term intervention and provide rehabilitation and post-rehab help with getting them stable jobs etc. Out of curiosity, how much have you contributed towards ensuring charity has access to infinite funds?
Perfect is enemy of good etc.

Yes, this is exactly what I was saying. 10/10 reading comprehension. I also like how there aren't any other charities that manage to work to end drug addiction without sterilizing people.

You criticized this effort by suggesting it should instead go towards getting them off drugs; ie having an actual long term intervention which includes rehab and securing post rehab employment, residence and ongoing stable income which requires far more resources per person than mitigating effects of drug use going forward. So again where is the resources for the charity to resolve all the social problems coming from.

Yes for example addaction which treated 12,778 people of which 11000 finished treatment; of which 5000 people will actually overcome addiction. Their spending for the year was ~£74m; lets assume 50% on non-treatment works - so per person cost of treating one person was £7000. It is estimated there are about 327,000 addicts in England alone; at that rate it costs £2.2bn to treat everyone assuming everyone just presented themselves at doctors. Given government is more interested in criminalizing drug use rather than rehabilitation, where is the funds to do actual treatment in large scale coming from?

At £200pp mitigating one of the impacts of drug use will cost about £65m; much more manageable number for a voluntary organization.

Ahh yes, the old crack baby myth and associated moralising raising its head again. I notice that a lot of people stopped giving a shit about that when it turned out that a lot of the damage done to children born of addicts was a) more to do with the material conditions they were raised in and b) about the same as tobacco and not as severe as alcohol.

Cool lets offer them similar incentives too; worse case scenario - we'll have fewer children as a society but nothing else changes (great), best case scenario - fewer children are being born in environment where they can't thrive in, we have fewer unwanted kids and we used no force to achieve any of this (great).

Whether it is genetic or environmental factors causing the effect is irrelevant unless you're discussing how to fix those underlying factors; and again given government is more focused on criminalizing drug use than treating it, how do you plan to fund it.

[Caracasus]

Ahh yes, the old crack baby myth and associated moralising raising its head again. I notice that a lot of people stopped giving a shit about that when it turned out that a lot of the damage done to children born of addicts was a) more to do with the material conditions they were raised in and b) about the same as tobacco and not as severe as alcohol.

Cool lets offer them similar incentives too; worse case scenario - we'll have fewer children as a society but nothing else changes (great), best case scenario - fewer children are being born in environment where they can't thrive in, we have fewer unwanted kids and we used no force to achieve any of this (great).

Whether it is genetic or environmental factors causing the effect is irrelevant unless you're discussing how to fix those underlying factors; and again given government is more focused on criminalizing drug use than treating it, how do you plan to fund it.

Well, you know - not going along with the plans of someone who equates drug users with vermin? Might be a plan...

[Great Nepal]

Cool lets offer them similar incentives too; worse case scenario - we'll have fewer children as a society but nothing else changes (great), best case scenario - fewer children are being born in environment where they can't thrive in, we have fewer unwanted kids and we used no force to achieve any of this (great).

Whether it is genetic or environmental factors causing the effect is irrelevant unless you're discussing how to fix those underlying factors; and again given government is more focused on criminalizing drug use than treating it, how do you plan to fund it.

Well, you know - not going along with the plans of someone who equates drug users with vermin? Might be a plan...

I don't really care what the person believes, individuals who are clearly unable or unwilling to take care of a child shouldn't be having children - since we can't force them to not have children due to hosts of ethical concerns, paying them not to have children works great.

[Victores]

This is how Eugenics is supposed to be done, not with mass murder, but with financial incentives.

[Sovaal]

This is how Eugenics is supposed to be done, not with mass murder, but with financial incentives.

I seriously doubt this will do anything worth while in regards to the human genome.

[Vassenor]

This is how Eugenics is supposed to be done, not with mass murder, but with financial incentives.

Or we could just, you know, not do eugenics. Leave the Natural in Natural Selection and stop trying to play God.

[Great Nepal]

This is how Eugenics is supposed to be done, not with mass murder, but with financial incentives.

Or we could just, you know, not do eugenics. Leave the Natural in Natural Selection and stop trying to play God.

"Playing god!" opposition is equally silly regardless of who does it.