Trump MAGAthread VIII: Make the MAGAthread Great Again

[The Flutterlands]

I look at it with Occam's Razor. Seems more likely that Trump is guilty of money laundering with Russia than of "colluding" with Russia to "hack" the election. He's a corrupt and unscrupulous (and mediocre) business man, not a great Criminal Mastermind capable of pulling off one of the greatest schemes of the decade.

Also, what slogan are you talking about? MAGA?

Only because you keep sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming whenever someone tries to demonstrate that yes, the cyberattacks happened.

I never said that cyberattacks didn't happen. I'm questioning the accusations of who actually did the attacks.

I look at it with Occam's Razor. Seems more likely that Trump is guilty of money laundering with Russia than of "colluding" with Russia to "hack" the election. He's a corrupt and unscrupulous (and mediocre) business man, not a great Criminal Mastermind capable of pulling off one of the greatest schemes of the decade.

Well at least you're no longer insisting he's innocent because he hasn't been proven guilty yet.

Not much of step now, you just have to admit that going along with a criminal mastermind's plan, knowing it is illegal, is actually collusion.

Oh, and admitting that the GRU are actually criminal masterminds. It's not so hard if you consider the average educational level of Russian citizens (higher than the US), the obvious laxity of internet law in Russia, the weak private sector of online business (legal business: it does not thrive because it is not protected by law), and the massive corrupt privileges of anyone who works for Putin or for the kleptocrats. The best Russian hacking talent goes to government, that's the only way which is lucrative AND safe.

By the way, our own democratic security services aren't spotless either. Free range hackers, criminals, are given immunity and given a job when they're caught. Only very rarely are they caught and then charged with a crime. It's pretty much the perfect contract for security services: you work for us, we pay you well and give you some privileges, but don't ever forget that open-and-shut case of hacking. We have that over you.

Ultimately, I think you'll be left defending Trump (on presumption of innocence, to your credit), with nothing more than "yes he did collude, he must have known he colluded, but the poor fellow is too naive to understand that collusion with a foreign government in a presidential election actually matters ... much" and after all putting most of the blame on some foreigners, not on Trump himself.

Which I can sort of see. Donald Trump is hopelessly lightweight, he's a babe in the woods. It is his fault if he knowingly accepted help in his campaign, from agents of a foreign government (because that is blatantly illegal, anyone running for President should know it is), but after all it can be excused as him being a small person, out of his depth, and basically being stupid. It's technically a crime, but despite the law I have some sympathy for people too stupid to know they're breaking the law.

No sympathy from me, for the Trump voters. Nearly half of the voters, about a fifth of the entire US population, voted for that fart in a suit. If you were one of them, I wish you nothing but heartbreak and disappointment, and a hard lesson learned.

1.) I'm insisting if he's guilty of anything if not innocent. I just find all the collusion accusations utterly far fetched not to mention difficult to prove because there is no legal basis..

2.) Regardless, even if Trump did collude, I still don't think he should be impeached because I don't want to be in a universe where Mike "Pray the Gay away" Pence is President and, call it petty, but I see Trump's Presidency as punishment for Establishment Democrats for 2016. The Democrats deserved to get hacked by the Russians or whatever and lose to Donald Trump for screwing over Bernie Sanders and Progressive voters because they tried pushing a moderate Republican in Democrat clothing on us.

[Valrifell]

Only because you keep sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming whenever someone tries to demonstrate that yes, the cyberattacks happened.

I never said that cyberattacks didn't happen. I'm questioning the accusations of who actually did the attacks.

Well at least you're no longer insisting he's innocent because he hasn't been proven guilty yet.

Not much of step now, you just have to admit that going along with a criminal mastermind's plan, knowing it is illegal, is actually collusion.

Oh, and admitting that the GRU are actually criminal masterminds. It's not so hard if you consider the average educational level of Russian citizens (higher than the US), the obvious laxity of internet law in Russia, the weak private sector of online business (legal business: it does not thrive because it is not protected by law), and the massive corrupt privileges of anyone who works for Putin or for the kleptocrats. The best Russian hacking talent goes to government, that's the only way which is lucrative AND safe.

By the way, our own democratic security services aren't spotless either. Free range hackers, criminals, are given immunity and given a job when they're caught. Only very rarely are they caught and then charged with a crime. It's pretty much the perfect contract for security services: you work for us, we pay you well and give you some privileges, but don't ever forget that open-and-shut case of hacking. We have that over you.

Ultimately, I think you'll be left defending Trump (on presumption of innocence, to your credit), with nothing more than "yes he did collude, he must have known he colluded, but the poor fellow is too naive to understand that collusion with a foreign government in a presidential election actually matters ... much" and after all putting most of the blame on some foreigners, not on Trump himself.

Which I can sort of see. Donald Trump is hopelessly lightweight, he's a babe in the woods. It is his fault if he knowingly accepted help in his campaign, from agents of a foreign government (because that is blatantly illegal, anyone running for President should know it is), but after all it can be excused as him being a small person, out of his depth, and basically being stupid. It's technically a crime, but despite the law I have some sympathy for people too stupid to know they're breaking the law.

No sympathy from me, for the Trump voters. Nearly half of the voters, about a fifth of the entire US population, voted for that fart in a suit. If you were one of them, I wish you nothing but heartbreak and disappointment, and a hard lesson learned.

1.) I'm insisting if he's guilty of anything if not innocent. I just find all the collusion accusations utterly far fetched.

2.) Regardless, even if Trump did collude, I still don't think he should be impeached because I don't want to have Mike Pence as President and, call it petty, but I see Trump's Presidency as punishment for Establishment Democrats for 2016. The Democrats deserved to get hacked and lose to Donald Trump for screwing over Bernie Sanders and Progressive voters.

Yeah, that's really petty. And attitudes like that where you throw fits for not getting your way and cheer on illegal activity and keeping men who did it away from justice to spite Democrats and people who disagree with you is the type of attitude that causes American politics to be so toxic.

[The Flutterlands]

I never said that cyberattacks didn't happen. I'm questioning the accusations of who actually did the attacks.


1.) I'm insisting if he's guilty of anything if not innocent. I just find all the collusion accusations utterly far fetched.

2.) Regardless, even if Trump did collude, I still don't think he should be impeached because I don't want to have Mike Pence as President and, call it petty, but I see Trump's Presidency as punishment for Establishment Democrats for 2016. The Democrats deserved to get hacked and lose to Donald Trump for screwing over Bernie Sanders and Progressive voters.

Yeah, that's really petty. And attitudes like that where you throw fits for not getting your way and cheer on illegal activity and keeping men who did it away from justice to spite Democrats and people who disagree with you is the type of attitude that causes American politics to be so toxic.

Regardless, the information in those emails, of the Democrats already declaring Hillary the nominee before voting and making sure that Bernie Sanders lose the primaries, is information that We the People should have known to begin with and are entitled to know. So Russia or whatever did us a favor by hacking them and have my support, much like who's ever doing the White House leaks is doing us a favor.

[Valrifell]

Yeah, that's really petty. And attitudes like that where you throw fits for not getting your way and cheer on illegal activity and keeping men who did it away from justice to spite Democrats and people who disagree with you is the type of attitude that causes American politics to be so toxic.

Regardless, the information in those emails, of the Democrats already declaring Hillary the nominee before voting and making sure that Bernie Sanders lose the primaries, is information that We the People should have known to begin with and are entitled to know. So Russia or whatever did us a favor by hacking them and have my support, much like who's ever doing the White House leaks is doing us a favor.

Except you can trust an internal whistleblower to have more altruistic (or at least benign) intents than a foreign hacker. Especially since said hacker may have the backing of a foreign government. And said foreign government has a history of animosity to the US.

Also worth nothing that while the Dems discusses sabotaging the Sanders campaign and frequently stated they wanted Clinton more, they never acted on that more than what we already knew they were doing. As in, not enough to account for the votes that went to Clinton thinking she was the better candidate for whatever reason. By saying foreign intervention in the US is okay because it sure got those Dems, you're basically admitting to not politicking out of any benefit you or your countrymen could get, you're politicking to spite people who who disagree with you.

[Ism]

1.) I'm insisting if he's guilty of anything if not innocent. I just find all the collusion accusations utterly far fetched not to mention difficult to prove because there is no legal basis..

2.) Regardless, even if Trump did collude, I still don't think he should be impeached because I don't want to be in a universe where Mike "Pray the Gay away" Pence is President and, call it petty, but I see Trump's Presidency as punishment for Establishment Democrats for 2016. The Democrats deserved to get hacked by the Russians or whatever and lose to Donald Trump for screwing over Bernie Sanders and Progressive voters because they tried pushing a moderate Republican in Democrat clothing on us.

Ah, so you're cutting off the nose to spite the face then? Wonderful, truly a brilliant move. And irony of this is just to die for too.

[The Flutterlands]

1.) I'm insisting if he's guilty of anything if not innocent. I just find all the collusion accusations utterly far fetched not to mention difficult to prove because there is no legal basis..

2.) Regardless, even if Trump did collude, I still don't think he should be impeached because I don't want to be in a universe where Mike "Pray the Gay away" Pence is President and, call it petty, but I see Trump's Presidency as punishment for Establishment Democrats for 2016. The Democrats deserved to get hacked by the Russians or whatever and lose to Donald Trump for screwing over Bernie Sanders and Progressive voters because they tried pushing a moderate Republican in Democrat clothing on us.

Ah, so you're cutting off the nose to spite the face then? Wonderful, truly a brilliant move. And irony of this is just to die for too.

How is spiting democrats for pushing an unlikable war mongerer on me when I could have had a Progressive Populist cutting the nose to spite the face?

[Ifreann]

Regardless, even if Trump did collude, I still don't think he should be impeached because I don't want to be in a universe where Mike "Pray the Gay away" Pence is President and, call it petty, but I see Trump's Presidency as punishment for Establishment Democrats for 2016. The Democrats deserved to get hacked by the Russians or whatever and lose to Donald Trump for screwing over Bernie Sanders and Progressive voters because they tried pushing a moderate Republican in Democrat clothing on us.

You want the President to get away with any crimes he's guilty of because you want the Democrats to suffer for not making Bernie Sanders their candidate.

I don't know if 'petty' is the word that would first come to mind to describe that sort of thinking.

---

Yeah, that's really petty. And attitudes like that where you throw fits for not getting your way and cheer on illegal activity and keeping men who did it away from justice to spite Democrats and people who disagree with you is the type of attitude that causes American politics to be so toxic.

Regardless, the information in those emails, of the Democrats already declaring Hillary the nominee before voting and making sure that Bernie Sanders lose the primaries, is information that We the People should have known to begin with and are entitled to know.

You are not entitled to the contents of private communications between members of the Democratic Party.

So Russia or whatever did us a favor by hacking them and have my support, much like who's ever doing the White House leaks is doing us a favor.

The identity of the victim does not make a crime excusable.

[The Flutterlands]

You are not entitled to the contents of private communications between members of the Democratic Party.

How am I not entitled to know wither or not the Democrats were out to sabatoge one of their own candidates in favor of another thus making the Democratic party not so Democratic after all?

[Ifreann]

You are not entitled to the contents of private communications between members of the Democratic Party.

How am I not entitled to know wither or not the Democrats were out to sabatoge one of their own candidates in favor of another thus making the Democratic party not so Democratic after all?

The same reason I'm not entitled to read your emails.

[Galloism]

How am I not entitled to know wither or not the Democrats were out to sabatoge one of their own candidates in favor of another thus making the Democratic party not so Democratic after all?

The same reason I'm not entitled to read your emails.

Oops. I wasn't supposed to be reading your emails?

[The Flutterlands]

How am I not entitled to know wither or not the Democrats were out to sabatoge one of their own candidates in favor of another thus making the Democratic party not so Democratic after all?

The same reason I'm not entitled to read your emails.

Then I guess we're not entitled to Trumps tax returns. The difference between me and the DNC, or the RNC, is that I'm not running to become the most powerful person on Earth or very close to people who are running and helping them closely.

[Ism]

The same reason I'm not entitled to read your emails.

Then I guess we're not entitled to Trumps tax returns. The difference between me and the DNC, or the RNC, is that I'm not running to become the most powerful person on Earth or very close to people who are running and helping them closely.

I didn't realize the DNC and RNC were running for President. I didn't even know they could. As for the tax returns, it's the norm for presidents to do that, it's not the norm for foreign nations to hack our organizations to influence the election.

[The Flutterlands]

Then I guess we're not entitled to Trumps tax returns. The difference between me and the DNC, or the RNC, is that I'm not running to become the most powerful person on Earth or very close to people who are running and helping them closely.

I didn't realize the DNC and RNC were running for President. I didn't even know they could. As for the tax returns, it's the norm for presidents to do that, it's not the norm for foreign nations to hack our organizations to influence the election.

They are political organizations competing for control over our Government, transparency should be a norm for them.. A foreign nation helped make one of them transparent, regardless of intentions. Would have been nice if they did the same to the other party too.

[Vassenor]

You are not entitled to the contents of private communications between members of the Democratic Party.

How am I not entitled to know wither or not the Democrats were out to sabatoge one of their own candidates in favor of another thus making the Democratic party not so Democratic after all?

I don't recall the emails actually saying that, but whatever.

[Ifreann]

The same reason I'm not entitled to read your emails.

Oops. I wasn't supposed to be reading your emails?

Not unless you're a Nigerian Prince.

---

The same reason I'm not entitled to read your emails.

Then I guess we're not entitled to Trumps tax returns.

No, we're not.

The difference between me and the DNC, or the RNC, is that I'm not running to become the most powerful person on Earth or very close to people who are running and helping them closely.

So according to you, no member of a political party has a right to privacy. Sounds like bullshit to me.

[Aellex]

I don't recall the emails actually saying that, but whatever.

Pls mate. C'mon. Don't seriously try to pull that one, fam. There are limits to how dumb one can play.

[The Flutterlands]

Oops. I wasn't supposed to be reading your emails?

Not unless you're a Nigerian Prince.

---

Then I guess we're not entitled to Trumps tax returns.

No, we're not.

The difference between me and the DNC, or the RNC, is that I'm not running to become the most powerful person on Earth or very close to people who are running and helping them closely.

So according to you, no member of a political party has a right to privacy. Sounds like bullshit to me.

I think I should be able to know everything about the people I'm voting for to run this Country. It's how we can hold them accountable. Ive learned things about Sanders I dont like, but at least I know them.

[Ism]

Not unless you're a Nigerian Prince.

---

No, we're not.

So according to you, no member of a political party has a right to privacy. Sounds like bullshit to me.

I think I should be able to know everything about the people I'm voting for to run this Country. It's how we can hold them accountable. Ive learned things about Sanders I dont like, but at least I know them.

But the DNC and RNC wouldn't be running the country.

[Ifreann]

Not unless you're a Nigerian Prince.

---

No, we're not.

So according to you, no member of a political party has a right to privacy. Sounds like bullshit to me.

I think I should be able to know everything about the people I'm voting for to run this Country. It's how we can hold them accountable.

No it isn't. That doesn't make any sense at all. How do you hold Donald Trump accountable by reading private texts he sends to his wife? Or his children?

And you've been talking about taking away the rights of the members of political parties, not just candidates. Who's gonna volunteer to work with a campaign when you have to turn over your tax returns, medical history, family photo albums, and everything else about your life to be entered into the public record? Fucking no one.

[The Flutterlands]

I think I should be able to know everything about the people I'm voting for to run this Country. It's how we can hold them accountable. Ive learned things about Sanders I dont like, but at least I know them.

But the DNC and RNC wouldn't be running the country.

You're saying that the only two significant political parties in the U.S aren't trying to run the Country? Or that the DNC isn't the Democratic Party and the RNC isn't the Republican party?

[The Flutterlands]

I think I should be able to know everything about the people I'm voting for to run this Country. It's how we can hold them accountable.

No it isn't. That doesn't make any sense at all. How do you hold Donald Trump accountable by reading private texts he sends to his wife? Or his children?

And you've been talking about taking away the rights of the members of political parties, not just candidates. Who's gonna volunteer to work with a campaign when you have to turn over your tax returns, medical history, family photo albums, and everything else about your life to be entered into the public record? Fucking no one.

We don't need to go that far. Just enough that's important for the people to know.

[Alvecia]

No it isn't. That doesn't make any sense at all. How do you hold Donald Trump accountable by reading private texts he sends to his wife? Or his children?

And you've been talking about taking away the rights of the members of political parties, not just candidates. Who's gonna volunteer to work with a campaign when you have to turn over your tax returns, medical history, family photo albums, and everything else about your life to be entered into the public record? Fucking no one.

We don't need to go that far. Just enough that's important for the people to know.

Like how much pizza they're having?

[Proctopeo]

You are not entitled to the contents of private communications between members of the Democratic Party.

Technically, nobody is entitled to anything.

[Vassenor]

No it isn't. That doesn't make any sense at all. How do you hold Donald Trump accountable by reading private texts he sends to his wife? Or his children?

And you've been talking about taking away the rights of the members of political parties, not just candidates. Who's gonna volunteer to work with a campaign when you have to turn over your tax returns, medical history, family photo albums, and everything else about your life to be entered into the public record? Fucking no one.

We don't need to go that far. Just enough that's important for the people to know.

And who decides what is "important for the people to know"?

The "public interest" defence is an absolute minefield.

[Proctopeo]

We don't need to go that far. Just enough that's important for the people to know.

And who decides what is "important for the people to know"?

I would assume the people.